Vintage Tissot Identification Help

[bzinck]

Can anyone help me in identifying a vintage manual Tissot.

It is a tank style (almost square). I think it may be a lady's or it is at least a very small man's. It has a serial on the case back - "1068441" - which, according to the chart posted elsewhere on this site for Tissot production dates, puts the watch somewhere between 1913 and 1916. [I've now been provided a more realistic figure and in retrospect this was quite a foolish estimate on my part -Thanks Eeeb & thank you for not pointing out my ignorance as a newbie :)] The case back also says...

________________________
waterproof
non magnetic shock absorber
Tissot
Swiss


Staybrite
Acier inoxydable
________________________

The dial is two-tone, primarily 'coppery gold' with a thin white border with minute markers at the very edge of the dial. It has roman numerals and a 6 o'clock seconds sweep. It is also signed at the top of the dial ...


Tissot
Waterproof

I am very new to collecting (this is my first vintage watch and it was given to me as a Christmas gift from my Dad who wanted to get me started). I have done some research on other brands, planning to start my collection with an Omega, so I know nothing about Tissot.

Any help will be appreciated. I'll post a pic as soon as I have one.
Thanks in advance,

Bvz

[Axel66]

Hello and welcome!

As our moderator John F. uses to say: "We love pics!";-)
But one warning: the chart assotiating the serial with a date are valid for the movement numbers, not for the case numbers!
And if you have no pic, try to be precise in your description as nowadays, some people would call a 33mm watch a lady's.

Cheers,

Axel

[bzinck]

Hi Axel,

Thank you for the welcome.

I've misunderstood the production number chart. I thought that it had said movements and cases and whereas the numbers are in the right format I thought I might have a match.

Now, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, but having taken some macro photos (which I am attaching) I'm now seeing the real condition of the watch and let's just say it's rough.

If anyone can give me some feed back on the watch I'd appreciate it.

Thanks again,

Bvz

[Eeeb]

I would guess the watch dates somewhere from the middle 30's to the early 50's. Before that Shock Absorbers were uncommon. After that rectangular (tank) cases were uncommon. I believe the Tissot logo changed about the middle 50's from the one you have to the current one.

The crystal is shot but the rest of the watch is not a disaster... but you won't really know if Dad has done you a favor or hung you with a millstone until you see how the movement looks and runs.

If you are going to collect, you are going to have to be able to pop off casebacks. There you will find the serial number and you will get a definitive answer on date.

Collecting Tissots is a LOT cheaper than collecting Omegas. And, in vintage form, they are better watches, IMHO. I have 50 year old Tissots that keep as good time as some of my modern mechanicals. For much of the life of the company (when they were independent) they were the best selling watch in Switzerland |> People who don't do their research seem to think because Omegas are hotter today that has always been true. Not so.

[bzinck]

Thanks Eeeb,

Narrowing the date range as you have is very helpful. I guess what I'm trying to determine is the model and/or it's relative worth.

I know that a good cleaning/servicing ($100 - $200) and new crystal ($???) are going to cost a pretty penny and I'd like to be sure that the watch itself is worth it in the end. It looks like the dial is actually in pretty good shape, but you're right - the crystal is trashed. I also notice some tool marks around the lugs on the the case back where it looks as though someone has tried to remove the back. On that note, I know that some cases require a specific tool, is Tissot one of them or can I pop it off with a common tool (butter knife?).

With respect to collecting Tissots, or any other brand, I have had some real difficulty in trying to pin down exactly how I will go about collecting. My attraction to Omegas is actually quite separate from their reputation today, in fact I don't much care for today's models - it's the earlier stainless bumpers and connies that I covet. I have the same attraction to Tudors but your point with respect to cost is well taken.

My dilemma is that if I do not 'pick a brand' as it were, I'll end up wanting every pretty watch I see and will never develop any sort of cohesive 'collection' - or be able to afford the prized pieces. Do most collectors face this sort of 'what to collect' question in the beginning?

Brent

[bzinck]

Okay - I have very very gingerly opened the caseback and have the following to report - 15j Tissot Swiss - 1154547 (which puts it smack dab in the middle of where Eeeb suggests!, 1941 to be exact).

The cover has "modele depose" marked on the inside - can someone tell me what this means. I'd love to know more about this piece.

Thanks

[Ray MacDonald]

You've already got some good advice and identification from Axel and Eeeb.
"Modele depose" means that the design was trademarked at the time - probably the dial and case design as it's hard to trademark a movement (that would be a patent - "brevete".)
Now as to collecting - have a theme. It might be collecting vintage Omegas and/or Tissots. They are the same company and have been since the mid 1930s. My theme(s) are collecting American pocket watches my grandfather would have used, or 1940s wind-ups my dad would have used.
We don't give valuations here as far as buying and selling goes. Having said that it rarely is worth fixing a very worn out watch unless it's a family heirloom or a very expensive piece like a Vacheron or Patek. We don't have a picture of the movement so it's hard to say what condition it is in.

[Eeeb]

Okay - I have very very gingerly opened the caseback and have the following to report - 15j Tissot Swiss - 1154547 (which puts it smack dab in the middle of where Eeeb suggests!, 1941 to be exact).

The cover has "modele depose" marked on the inside - can someone tell me what this means. I'd love to know more about this piece.

Thanks

First off, Ray and John and many others are far more expert than I... for example I didn't realize the Omega-Tissot merger took place in the mid 30's!

My next question is, what happens when you wind it? Does it run? Is the balance wheel working? How long does it run? How far off is the timing?

Often all vintage watches need is to be cleaned, lubed and timed. Hopefully that's true of your watch. (Well, you'll need a crystal but they can be found.)

If not, Ray may be right... it's cheaper to buy a good condition similar vintage watch than to fix one in bad condition.

As to what to collect... I found that a hard decision to make at the beginning. I knew next to nothing about watches when I started. But I got interested in old Columbus Watch Company pocket watches when I discovered they were made within walking distance of where I live. That evolved into HEQ (I'm a technologist by inclination, training and advocation).

Then I started admiring mechanicals and that lead to an interest in Tissots and Longines... a lot more bang for the buck with them than with Omega.

Michael Korda wrote a book about watch collecting. I found it full of insight about the nature of WISes and how they collect.

[bzinck]

**If this discussion belongs in another forum please advise - as a newbie it's great to get all of the fantastic feedback - but I understand that this may be the wrong place.**

Hi Ray

Thanks for the information - I assumed 'modele depose' was a trademark but wasn't sure.

With respect to finding a theme - that had been my plan, but choosing which theme has been my difficulty. The watches I really like aesthetically are Omegas and Tudors but I haven't started my collection with one of these due to the cost. I had started to think that I would just buy watches that I 'like', regardless of brand and then use those to trade and fund the purchase of my preferred brands. I hadn't known that Tissots are/were made by the same co. as Omega - I have been given a few good books for Christmas and I'll do some more reading - but that's a good 'connection' that might get me in to a lower price point and actually start accumulating pieces.

As for repairs to the Tissot I've posted, the movement looks pristine. I was actually quite surprised to see that a watch which outwardly looked so rough had such a beautiful movement - bright, clean and no signs of moisture or obvious damage. If I do anything at all to this watch (other than cleaning) it will be a new crystal and that's it.

On another note, I notice that you are in Almonte - quite close to me. I wonder if you have any suggestions for finding reasonable vintage pieces in our area. Every where I've found them, and I've seen quite a few in our area, they've either been in really really rough shape or incredibly over priced. Are there collectors or shows in our area? As a newbie I'd really appreciate your advice.

Thanks again.

Brent

[Eeeb]

**If this discussion belongs in another forum please advise - as a newbie it's great to get all of the fantastic feedback - but I understand that this may be the wrong place.**



Fear not, the Moderator Gods will move it if they think appropriate :-d

The Tissot forum is your only other hope... but mostly they are about 'which one of these new hats do you like the most?'... er, I mean watches. :roll:

Well, maybe I'm being harsh... I gotta watch that. :think:

[bzinck]

Hi Eeeb,

I must have been posting as you replied.

As I said in my reply to Ray above - the movement looks pristine, but I haven't had the watch long enough to determine it's loss/gain but I did set it last night and it winds just fine (okay - a little stiff and to my surprise it winds toward me when holding it, rather than away which I would have expected). If I have anything done to it, it will be a thorough cleaning and - if reasonable - a new crystal.

I think that I will take everyone's advice here and start looking at brands other than the Omega/Tudor. Though beautiful - they're REALLY expensive. I just really like the stainless Oyster case of the Tudors and the simplicity of some of the early Omegas. It's purely appearance and has nothing to do with movement at all. I've invested most of my time in researching these brands to the exclusion of others - I now feel comfortable that I could make a good purchase (funds permitting) - but if I open it up a bit I might actually BUY a watch, instead of thinking it to death.

[Ray MacDonald]

I've found nothing worthwhile in the Ottawa area, frankly. The best place to look is on eBay or online vintage vendors. This guy in Montreal has some nice stuff and he's reputable.

http://www.darlor-watch.com

Also our own WUS sales forum might have good stuff for you. I will shamelessly put in a plug for Tom (pacifichrono) - who is one of our favorite members and has the best eye for pretty vintage that I know of. I know he's often got nice pieces for sale.

[Ray MacDonald]

You are in the right forum. Of course, many of the watches discussed here are still made, so there are forums for them on WUS and you can try posting there if you wish.
Many of the members and mods of forums like Omega and Zenith are also vintage fans and valuable contributors here.

[Ray MacDonald]

Allow me to recommend Bulova - well made, lots of styles to suit any collector, and parts still readily available.
Elgin is another great brand if you like all-American. Hamilton is a beautiful American brand (if you get stuff prior to say 1965) but a little harder to get parts for. Hamilton in its heyday was as good as Omega.