EBAY seller SELLS FAKES or is he LEGIT?

[PCx188]

i am looking at this Breitling watch...I am a bit skeptical since he is from Japan, but this guy's feedback is phenomenal and he guaratees his stuff. Can anybody tell me if this certain Breitling is a fake (especially without any box nor papers) and would anybody be able to authenticate at his other items for sale?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150206223780&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=005

[EJC]

i am looking at this Breitling watch...I am a bit skeptical since he is from Japan, but this guy's feedback is phenomenal and he guaratees his stuff. Can anybody tell me if this certain Breitling is a fake (especially without any box nor papers) and would anybody be able to authenticate at his other items for sale?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150206223780&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=005

Looks nice to me. The comment of the tight bezel is fairly common for a Navi.

You may very well get hit with customs on the watch.

[PCx188]

Looks nice to me. The comment of the tight bezel is fairly common for a Navi.

You may very well get hit with customs on the watch.

whoa, i didnt think about the customs thing. what if it's declared as a gift?...many people from canada tell me to do this when i ship them stuff off of ebay.

also should i be a little worried that there isnt a box nor any papers? would tourneau be an ideal place to atke this watch to get authenticated or they wouldnt be able to tell me anything?

[SnapIT]

If you don't know what the risks are why do what you are thinking of doing?
If its your first Breitling purchase, buy from your local authorised dealer and dispense with all of the above problems like legit watch, legit dealer, shipping insurance, loss in transit, custom duty, confiscation by customs due to false declaration etc etc.....

[Avenger_M1]

Don't, just don't buy this " navitimer ".
It is a fake!
Keep miles away from this, and trust me: I know my classicals and I suggest you:
Don't buy this fake watch, for me this is very very clear.
If you don't want to be disappointed leave this Chinese thing where it is...

[EJC]

I guess you can try the gift route.
But if Customs doesn't buy it you may have a BIG problem on your hands.
1st you may have to prove it's a gift. Good luck.

[EJC]

That said, I seriously doubt that I'd buy a watch from 1/2 way round the world when the same watch could be picked up and authenticated locally.

[bnewbie]

Don't, just don't buy this " navitimer ".
It is a fake!
Keep miles away from this, and trust me: I know my classicals and I suggest you:
Don't buy this fake watch, for me this is very very clear.
If you don't want to be disappointed leave this Chinese thing where it is...

It's not a fake and the seller is very reputable.

[outstretchedhands]

Don't, just don't buy this " navitimer ".
It is a fake!
Keep miles away from this, and trust me: I know my classicals and I suggest you:
Don't buy this fake watch, for me this is very very clear.
If you don't want to be disappointed leave this Chinese thing where it is...

It seems there are a couple of people floating round these forums shouting "FAKE" on every thread that questions the integrity of an item. Now I'm not a Breitling expert and wouldn't make a call either way but the seller in this auction has a VERY good reputation and has posted clear pictures. A reputation like that takes some achieving and he at least deserves some respect for that.

People ranting "FAKE" at every opportunity just for the sake of it or because they have some hidden agenda, does not help the members here one iota.

[SnapIT]

Outstretchedhands, you are quite correct, people ranting "fake" at every turn helps no one.
The issue here is not the watch, I believe its genuine, but the circumstances of the purchase for what appears to be a novice buyer. My intent is to steer him in the direction of an AD so that at least he gets what he is willing to pay for, not what he hopes will be a great deal but disappoints for some unforeseen reason down the line. At least when you pickup the watch from a dealer at the counter you have a high degree of confidence that its the genuine article unlike dealing through ebay.

[outstretchedhands]

Outstretchedhands, you are quite correct, people ranting "fake" at every turn helps no one.
The issue here is not the watch, I believe its genuine, but the circumstances of the purchase for what appears to be a novice buyer. My intent is to steer him in the direction of an AD so that at least he gets what he is willing to pay for, not what he hopes will be a great deal but disappoints for some unforeseen reason down the line. At least when you pickup the watch from a dealer at the counter you have a high degree of confidence that its the genuine article unlike dealing through ebay.

Yep, with that I fully agree. eBay is a minefield and not for the faint at heart nor the inexperienced when it comes to highend watches and many other types of goods. Can't beat an AD, especially when you need after-service which at some point you probably will.

[Avenger_M1]

So is my mother-in-law...
Does this " reputability " guarantees you that this particular seller cannot sell fakes anymore??
On the contrary my dear friend: naivity is the daily bread for those so called
" reputable " sellers.
After approx. 10 years of fakes on the Bay, who would still buy a doubtable watch from a seller having a zero record or a negative reputation??
Noooo... nowadays you're in NEED of a 99-100% record to sell a fake. And getting a good record isn't so difficult at all: just buy some things at 1-2$/pce and in 2 weeks you'll have your " reputation " on eBay.
And sorry but that's the reality mate...
This watch is a Hong-Kong replica.

[Avenger_M1]

It seems there are a couple of people floating round these forums shouting "FAKE" on every thread that questions the integrity of an item. Now I'm not a Breitling expert and wouldn't make a call either way but the seller in this auction has a VERY good reputation and has posted clear pictures. A reputation like that takes some achieving and he at least deserves some respect for that.

People ranting "FAKE" at every opportunity just for the sake of it or because they have some hidden agenda, does not help the members here one iota.


You're not a Breitling expert, O.K., things happen and you're probably not the only one around here I stated.
Also I have to remark that I'm certainly not shouting, why should I?
But: When people ask to help 'm figure out if a certain watch is fake or not, I'll give 'm my opinion and I always know what I'm talking about.
As I wrote here before: My mom-in-law has a " VERY good reputation " too only I wouldn't buy anything from her on the Bay!
The watches I entitled as fakes here ARE fakes... so, give me one good reason why I shouldn't tell they are?!
And I certainly don't say here that you could ( and I write " could " ) be the eBay seller of the watch in question himself...
Mind we're on the web my friend. And who is who in this place?

[Avenger_M1]

Just be sure it IS a HK fake SnapIT.
The man only uses his good records to put most of aspirantbuyers on one leg.
No papers, no box, no nothing... I read and experienced this sooo many times, always the same story and the worst of it: some people never learn.
It's a very clear replica and my collaegue even knows exactly who made this range of " ... Navitimers ".

[EJC]

Snapit, looking more closely at the bracelet. It is marked "cosmo" "old Nav". Did Breitling ever mark their bracelets this way, or did they only use model numbers?

[EJC]

OK, we have all sorts of accusations/words flying here.
I just asked SnapIt a question on the bracelet.

What has you so convinced this is a fake? What are you seeing others aren't that will help with future IDs?

[outstretchedhands]

So is my mother-in-law...
Does this " reputability " guarantees you that this particular seller cannot sell fakes anymore??
On the contrary my dear friend: naivity is the daily bread for those so called
" reputable " sellers.
After approx. 10 years of fakes on the Bay, who would still buy a doubtable watch from a seller having a zero record or a negative reputation??
Noooo... nowadays you're in NEED of a 99-100% record to sell a fake. And getting a good record isn't so difficult at all: just buy some things at 1-2$/pce and in 2 weeks you'll have your " reputation " on eBay.
And sorry but that's the reality mate...
This watch is a Hong-Kong replica.

Avenger, firstly I don't mean to single you out. I'm sure your post was sincere but maybe saying that something is a fake without backing up your statement with why you think it's a fake is simply not terribly helpful or credible, IMHO.

Secondly, yes, I have seen many sellers buy themselves an eBay feedback by purchasing 2 cents items but not a 1500+ feedback and it's clear to see that this seller is not one of these types.

[outstretchedhands]

What has you so convinced this is a fake? What are you seeing others aren't that will help with future IDs?

This is exactly my point. If a member here thinks a watch is a fake he is entitled and should say so, but he should also at least substantiate that claim. Otherwise it's just...a claim..

[jimmyiosis]

I'm wondering too, what have you (Avenger) ID'd on this watch that is saying fake?

[SnapIT]

Bracelets were double stamped with the models they would fit in the early 90's and the oldnav and cosmo were identical in case dimentions.

Here are a couple of comparison sightings for your naked eye comparison with the subject listed last.

http://www.chrono24.com/web/es/hersteller/u/b/breitling/1313288.htm?such=1&lastshowpage=18

Note, this one is an A13019 all SS not the B13019 bi metal version which is the subject of our discussion.

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:enTZk29DHzoJ:www.breitlingsource.co m/phpBB2/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D669%26start%3D0%26sid%3D411ae0 624485229d5cfc20936daade8b+breitling+81611&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=au&client=firefox-a

And the serial number seems to still be intact as can be seen just below the central 'B' logo.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150206223780&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=005

[EJC]

Avenger M1, we havn't heard from you.

If you think this watch is a fake please, we'd love to know why.
Apparently you are seeing things a number of us are missing.

[PCx188]

wow, so many replies within one weekend. well thanks for the advice! i have clearly changed my mind about buying a watch from japan. i have also turned my interest towards a different breitling model anyway.

just out of curiousity, what is the current listing value of this watch? is tehre like an online collector's price guide i can base my purchases on?

[johnakm]

I don't know the value of that watch, but I can tell you how I would go about figuring out the value. If you do a search of completed sales in ebay, you should be able to find quite a few examples of the same watch and the final sale prices. I've also found that I have become pretty good at spotting fakes on ebay. I watched the breitlings like a hawk for a few weeks. I scrutinized the pics closely and was able to learn the tell-tales signs of the fakes, ie poor pictures, stupid explanation for missing boxes and paperwork, poor or no feedback. I also found that most fakes have incorrect ref no. or no ref nos. Often, I find the same watch at a replica watch site and it has the same S/N. When I found a watch I suspected, I posted it here to get expert opinions along with explanations of what was wrong with each watch. A good way to spot a legit watch is it will have sharp pics, proper docs, and it will be offered by someone with good feedback. Unfortunately, you will probably not buy such a watch cheap. The best way to get a good deal on ebay is to find one that has poor pics and feedback, but you can tell it's real because you've looked at a lot of pics and have become good at telling the difference. Then you might get it for less, but I would still use paypal or escrow.com to make the transfer. I did get my chronomat longitude from craigslist for a great price. The seller knew it was valuable so he didn't give it away, but he also didn't do his homework and asked about half what it was worth. I've noticed several good watches on craigslist over the past few months. I think there will be a lot more with the slowing economy. Good luck with the hunt. I know you will enjoy whatever breitling you ultimately purchase. I know I love my two and get lots of compliments. My zodiac, LeCoultre, and girard perregaux are getting jealous.

John


wow, so many replies within one weekend. well thanks for the advice! i have clearly changed my mind about buying a watch from japan. i have also turned my interest towards a different breitling model anyway.

just out of curiousity, what is the current listing value of this watch? is tehre like an online collector's price guide i can base my purchases on?

[Nick1016]

Avenger M1, we havn't heard from you.

If you think this watch is a fake please, we'd love to know why.
Apparently you are seeing things a number of us are missing.


I've never posted in this forum before, so Hello. And I'm not a Breitling owner or expert by any stretch of the imagination, so take this with a grain of salt. What I can say is that this seller is very highly regarded in the Omega forum and I do keep tabs on his listings out of curiosity (and I've never seen an Omega listing that concerned me). So I'd be curious to know why you think this is a fake too, Avenger.

[EJC]

wow, so many replies within one weekend. well thanks for the advice! i have clearly changed my mind about buying a watch from japan. i have also turned my interest towards a different breitling model anyway.

just out of curiousity, what is the current listing value of this watch? is tehre like an online collector's price guide i can base my purchases on?

If you're not sure what you're getting into, your best bet is keep it local, especially if the watch is not out of the ordinary. A collectors piece or hard to find piece, like a display back (ask Ron) is another question.

As to fair price on a used piece. That's an old question and hard to figure. E-Bay is always a good place to try to figure value, when you have a watch in mind this forum can quite often help (as they did when I was negotiating my Astromat and Scott Carpenter), and it doesn't hurt to google it. Also remeber on a used piece (and quite often a new piece) the price always negotiable!!!!!!

[EJC]

Avenger M1, we havn't heard from you.

If you think this watch is a fake please, we'd love to know why.
Apparently you are seeing things a number of us are missing.


Still no comment from Avenger.
I was hoping to be enlightened on what I was missing.

Could he be a troll?

[Avenger_M1]

i am looking at this Breitling watch...I am a bit skeptical since he is from Japan, but this guy's feedback is phenomenal and he guaratees his stuff. Can anybody tell me if this certain Breitling is a fake (especially without any box nor papers) and would anybody be able to authenticate at his other items for sale?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150206223780&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=005
Hello my dear forumfriends, Breitling experts, Fake busters!

A small reaction/explanation from me to put you back at your ease:

No, I didn't miss a word of this thread, but believe me:
Sometimes judging an extremely good replica isn't a piece of cake... I'll explain myself O.K.?

You see, I won't bother you all with the story of my life but consider this question and you'll understand:

Which of following 2 replica's will be the perfect fake to you...

Replica One: ... A fake Breitling, different materials were used, non-conform hands, a slightly modified logo, not exactly the genuine color of the plate, no B in the bezel..... a fake watch as you find 'm everywhere, a very " common " replica let's say...

Replica Two: ... The " Real Thing ": exact materials used, exact hands, exact logo, perfect matching colors, B in the bezel, an existing serial number inside and outside.... to be short: for a non-pro NO visual differences from an original Br.!
BUT... and NOW we're coming to the point: This replica two hasn't been assembled behind the doors of Br. Watch Cy!
The " perfect " replica exists my dear friends!

Just believe me: they do!

And I'm sure that - in my example - you've indicated Replica Two as the perfect Fake.

And it's not difficult to understand why papers, certificate, cards, box of these " identical " replica's always fail... they've never been printed.

The watch in question on eBay is an identical HK replica. I'm sure 99% 'cause I can see the hand of the master in it.
And nooooo...., I won't tell you my secret here, I once paid a very high price for my acquired knowledge and we won't explain some details...
You trust me or you don't,
You either buy a watch like this or not,
A man's freedom is a man's fortune...

but please... afterwards never say nobody warned you, it's all well-ment and I learned everything about manufacturing these rep's but also... my lesson!

Sure I did.

Have a very nice day all,
At ease...

A M1
http://forums.watchuseek.com/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://forums.watchuseek.com/images/buttons/forward.gif (http://forums.watchuseek.com/private.php?do=newpm&forward=1&pmid=320429)

[jimmyiosis]

Whoah,

you are so mysterious, I am totally impressed. Did you go to a secret relica watch school in the basement of a hidden swiss lab or something.

What is the point of telling someone that a watch is a replica if you can't help them identify them. Do you think they are always going to come here for advise. If you can help educate someone, they will be much better off than just giving them advise and hoping they will walk away from it.

[EJC]

Whoah,

you are so mysterious, I am totally impressed. Did you go to a secret relica watch school in the basement of a hidden swiss lab or something.

What is the point of telling someone that a watch is a replica if you can't help them identify them. Do you think they are always going to come here for advise. If you can help educate someone, they will be much better off than just giving them advise and hoping they will walk away from it.


He's got to be kidding right?

Part of the beauty of this forum is helping/teaching each other to ID fakes. Now we get a response of "trust me"? Why? Why not trust a seller with such a high FB rating. He says trust me also. In truth we know neither of them and neither has really earned our trust.

[PCx188]

EJC, well said.

and ummm M1...you still explain why you think it's fake. "the hand of the master" ??? what the ****** is that?

the perfect replica does exist, but it's probably made by breitling themselves. that's the only way it can be perfect.

[Avenger_M1]

Yep, of course, and exactly as I expected: " Wise guys " in promotion here.. lol!
O.K. people, no prob at all for me, in fact I've other things to do than write replies at your 2 cts. comments.

And no EDITED... I didn't spend too much time in a Swiss lab. In fact I worked for 12 yrs. for the Magical Company ( Breitling... in case you couldn't get the hint ) itself...

Does this light your light a bit?

PCx188... yes, you're partly right: as I said, the perfect ( we call it " identicals " ) replica does exist.
However " Breitling " makes no watches: the people who are working or were working at Breitling, they make the watches.
You see? Many inside of Breitling's doors, and... also a few outside. Capisce??
And that's what I wanted to tell you: Do with it what you want.

Ciaociao experts!

A m1

[EJC]

O.K. people, no prob at all for me, in fact I've other things to do than write replies at your 2 cts. comments.

You've been doing nothing but commenting on different strings. It would seem that you have plenty of time on your hands.



And no jimmyidiotsis...


Name calling is always the mature thing to do.
I didn't spend too much time in a Swiss lab. In fact I worked for 12 yrs. for the Magical Company ( Breitling... in case you couldn't get the hint ) itself...

Does this light your light a bit?

PCx188... yes, you're partly right: as I said, the perfect ( we call it " identicals " ) replica does exist.
However " Breitling " makes no watches: the people who are working or were working at Breitling, they make the watches.
You see? Many inside of Breitling's doors, and... also a few outside. Capisce??
And that's what I wanted to tell you: Do with it what you want.

Ciaociao experts!

A m1

So I guess we have here a disgruntled former employee, who is telling us that Breitling employees steal parts, assemble watches and then put them on the market.These watches being made are now identical to the real thing. That leads to the question of how would he know that this is one such watch?after all these are only pictures we've seen. He also claimed that this was a HK Fake not one made by Breitling employees, as he is now claiming!Did he build it? did he sell it to the seller of the auction? is the auctioner a former employee he knows who did things like this?

If indeed if this is the case, why can't they steal papers as well?

I think we have a Troll here!:-x:-x:-x

[jimmyiosis]

Yep, of course, and exactly as I expected: "

And no jimmyidiotsis... I didn't spend too much time in a Swiss lab. In fact I worked for 12 yrs. for the Magical Company ( Breitling... in case you couldn't get the hint ) itself...

Does this light your light a bit?

A m1


I'm not really bothered about the name calling, it was already a stupid nick name a friend game me, you just made it a litter dumber. But honestly, I am so confused by you. You are claiming that you worked for Breitling for 12 years, and everytime you get on these forums you have no valuable information to help others, just comments that a watch is a fake or not. Now I'm in no position to make such a claim, but I think if I had worked at "The Magical Company" and knew of such disgraces as employees who were defrauding the company, I would make a personal commitment to first of all, stop the losers who are making the "identicals" and secondly, I would help as many people as I could identify actual flaws in those or other watches. You probably aren't even going to read this since you have better things to do with your time. But if you do, I wouldn't consider any of your advice worthy of these boards. Ciao!:-!