Please help to ID this 50's chrono

[lenainrouge]

Hi,

First please excuse me for my bad english, as i'm not used to speak this language but 'im forced to use it as we are on the best internet forum about Breitling ! :-)

I've found this old chrono on internet

http://sites.estvideo.net/lenainrouge/montre/Breit/ag_1_b00.jpg

http://sites.estvideo.net/lenainrouge/montre/Breit/31_1_b00.jpg

Other pics there:

http://sites.estvideo.net/lenainrouge/montre/Breit/Breit.htm

I think it's a Venus 175 but i notices some difference between movement identified as Venus 175. The bigest screw at the left of the picture sometimes cover a gears, sometimes not. So, what is this movement ?

The seller says it's a 18K gold watch. Everything seams OK, but i noticed that the cover is not signed Breitling and the leather band is not Breitling. There is not box or papers.

I like this watch. I would buy it, but first i need to know:

1 - Is it an original Breitlig ?
2 - What would be a good price for this watch ?

:thanks

[O2AFAC67]

I've found this old chrono on internet.
1 - Is it an original Breitlig ?
2 - What would be a good price for this watch ?a link to another vintage Breitling Chrono on the net...

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-18K-ROSE-BREITLING-CHRONOGRAPH-1-NR_W0QQitemZ8941920761QQcategoryZ31387QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

Perhaps this will help you with your pricing although the watches have different dials. The watch on this auction does have a Breitling signature on the inside of the caseback for what that may be worth...
I apologize for not being familiar with the earlier Breitlings. We have many members here who will likely be able to answer your questions very soon. Good luck! :-!
Cheers,
Ron

[JJW1967]

Bonjour Lenainrouge,

The movement is a Venus 188 which was used by Breitling in some cases. (Model #1185 to #1199 chronographs) I have no information on a model ref # 1063 using this movement. By my knowledge there was no #1063 chronograph in the Breitling catalogue. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The Breitling logo on the dial indicates that the watch dates from the late 50's to early 60's. There's something fishy about the dial though. It seems to be a redial or someone just put the name Breitling on a no-name dial. The font is just to thick, especially the hand-written B on top.

The Breitling logo on the bridge seems kinda funny too. Notice how the ng at the end knicks downward, as if someone had cut it out of the metal by hand.

There is no serial # on the case nor on the movement and the crown is not signed.

All these indications on their own might be of no importance, but if you add it all together I would stay clear of this watch. I'm afraid this is a no-name Swiss chronograph (Chronographe Suisse or Chronomètre Suisse like they were mass-produced in the 50's and 60's), that someone tries to pass as a genuine Breitling. (But that's just my opinion)

Cheers,

Johan

[lenainrouge]

Hi Joan,

what an usefull post for your first intervention. Thx you very much. Indeed, the more i spend time on this chrono, more i'm thinking it's not an original. The link given by O2AFAC67 (thx you too) shows a serial number outside of the cover. Here, there is only 1093 inside the cover. Could you see, Johan, if this number is in accordance with the watch shown ?

I've just found an intersteing discussion (in french) about a similar watch here:
http://f24.parsimony.net/forum57818/messages/115104.htm

[Sebastien]

Hi Lenainrouge (wonder where that name comes from :-) ),

I'd agree with some things said above: the dial indeed looks like a redial, especially the name and the numbers on the minutes register (there are not horizontal, that looks very dodgy to me)...

As for the model number, I wouldn't be as categoric as Johan: Breitling records are not complete, and some watches are listed in there without a model number... which could be a 1093. Furthermore, Breitling have produced 11xx and 10xx series (incl. model 1074), some of them using the Venus 188. This calibre was also used in many other models, such as the Superocean (model 2005), Top Time (model 2000 tp 2009), and Cadette model 1158.

To me it sounds based on an original, just one more thing to check, leave me a few days for that: the Hallmark number (119) can be identified at the Swiss gold office, and then I could compare the name of the user of this particular number with Breitling records... I'll try to get you this info by tomorrow.

Now, Ron pointed out a nice timepiece... pre-44, if it is authentic (I just have doubts: the bezel shape, the large numbers on the surrounding of the dial, and the caseback: the "18K / 750" and "Breitling Ltd Swiss" look weird, no gold official hallmark).

Have a nice day (if we sort you out some info, can you reveal us why that name? :-D )

Best regards,
Sebastien

[lenainrouge]

For sure Sebastien !

Next time i will tell you how i've catched this nickname, 6 years ago, when i was for the first time surfing on the web !

You know ? Sebastien is also my second surname. It was the surname of my grandfather. It's a typical french surname. Are you also french ?

I'm impressed by your facility to identify details as the Hallmark number (119). I doesn't look at it before. How do you do to ask the Swiss Gold Office ? Are you a professional swiss jeweler ?

Otherwise, for me number 6 and 12 are just stylish but seems to be horizontals. But, another question for specialists: The Breitling name on the movement is incise by a machine or manualy made ? It could explain why the n is falling down.

thx
bye

[EJC]

Hi,

First please excuse me for my bad english, as i'm not used to speak this language but 'im forced to use it as we are on the best internet forum about Breitling ! :-)

I've found this old chrono on internet

http://sites.estvideo.net/lenainrouge/montre/Breit/ag_1_b00.jpg

http://sites.estvideo.net/lenainrouge/montre/Breit/31_1_b00.jpg

Other pics there:

http://sites.estvideo.net/lenainrouge/montre/Breit/Breit.htm

I think it's a Venus 175 but i notices some difference between movement identified as Venus 175. The bigest screw at the left of the picture sometimes cover a gears, sometimes not. So, what is this movement ?

The seller says it's a 18K gold watch. Everything seams OK, but i noticed that the cover is not signed Breitling and the leather band is not Breitling. There is not box or papers.

I like this watch. I would buy it, but first i need to know:

1 - Is it an original Breitlig ?
2 - What would be a good price for this watch ?

:thanks

Looks very similar to the Chronomats pictured on p82 of Richter.
subdial hands do not appear to ber original and neither does the 2nd hand.
Not sure of the main hands.
Can't help with the movement.
Dial is probably repainted.
of course then there is the question of why repaint the dial and not get the rust out of the inside of the case

[bradders]

I think this is a difficult watch to call accurately. I agree with the points that the other forum members have raised - but I cannot easily say whether it is or is not a normal chronograph of the period mocked up to be a Breitling. The logo on the dial and the signature on the movement may look dodgy but could well bare upto to detailed examination.

I also have doubts around the case - I have never seen a genuine Breitling with this type of ridged back - all mine and most that appear online have a smooth watch glass style back. I have seen 2 fakes with this type of case back - which would suggest something a bit fishy.

What isn't in doubt to me is the fact that it is gold and has a genuine Venus movement - clearly it has both.

The significant point IMO - is the lack of a serial number identifiable on the watch case. In the end I would not buy a Breitling watch of this period over the internet that you could not be absolutely sure of the provenence.

IMHO I cannot be sure of the provenence of this watch and therefore I would not buy it. It will make it more difficult to sell at a later stage anyway.

Bradders