Thoughts on Vintage Heuer Chrono's

[Ferrari 312T]

All

Am looking at getting one of those 70's Heuer Chrono's and it seems that the Autavia's are good value and with the Cal 12 movement are quite desirable.

What are your thoughts on these watches?

http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/62.Autavia/d.Automatic_Autavias/72.Reference_1163V/

[Joe K.]

I think you will find many people here who know more than me about these, but I always thought these are fine watches with a historical significance. :-!

All

Am looking at getting one of those 70's Heuer Chrono's and it seems that the Autavia's are good value and with the Cal 12 movement are quite desirable.

What are your thoughts on these watches?

http://www.onthedash.com/Guide/_Chronographs/62.Autavia/d.Automatic_Autavias/72.Reference_1163V/

[eptaz]

I like them quite a lot. In fact, pre-Tag Heuer sits firmly as my #2 favorite manufacturer. In my opinion, these old Autavias are decidedly more "tool" and not quite as refined as vintage Omegas, from the same period, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. As you can see in the photo from Onthedash, the micro-rotor movements that power them aren't pretty, but they're interesting and functional. They're also one of the first automatic chronograph movements.

The Viceroy variant remains the most affordable variant, but prices have risen considerably, through the years, especially considering these were first offered at the cost of $88 and a couple of box tops from cigarette cartons.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o1/eptaz/my%20watches/autavia/viceroyad.jpg
ad courtesy of onthedash.com

Here are a few pics of mine, which you've probably see before.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o1/eptaz/my%20watches/autavia/viceroy03.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o1/eptaz/my%20watches/autavia/viceroy13.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o1/eptaz/my%20watches/autavia/viceroy02.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o1/eptaz/my%20watches/autavia/viceroy10.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o1/eptaz/my%20watches/autavia/viceroy04.jpg

eric

[gatorcpa]

Some quick thoughts:

These movements were made by a consortium of watch companies which included Heuer, Hamilton Dubois-Depraz and Buren, which were (more or less) under commom control in the late 1960's. They were most famously used by Heuer is several choronograph models, but also used by a lot of other companies. In addition to the companies mentioned above, you can find these movements in watches branded Breitling, Gruen, Bulova, Elgin, Invicta, Dugena and many others.

A lot of the hype over the Heuer brand is over their cross-over connection to auto racing. There is no doubt that several drivers in the 1960's and 70's used these chronographs as tools of their profession. In reality though, there is no real difference between Heuers, Breitlings and the lesser known brands except for the name on dial, as very little in the way of modifications to the base ebauche were done back then.

I mention this only because it is possible to pay many thousands or only a few hundred dollars for an example of the Cal 11/12/14/15 depending solely on the name on the dial. Like most vintage chronographs, when they are in proper repair, they are very accurate watches. However, when they need repair, the cost can get astronomical as some parts are very difficult to source.

I understand that there is a German company that has dug up a few of the original movements and have put them in modern cases, as well.

http://www.guinand-watch.com/images/stories/guinand/assets/Info_Buren_E.pdf

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa

[quatre_temps]

Some quick thoughts:

These movements were made by a consortium of watch companies which included Heuer, Hamilton Dubois-Depraz and Buren, which were (more or less) under commom control in the late 1960's. They were most famously used by Heuer is several choronograph models, but also used by a lot of other companies. In addition to the companies mentioned above, you can find these movements in watches branded Breitling, Gruen, Bulova, Elgin, Invicta, Dugena and many others.

A lot of the hype over the Heuer brand is over their cross-over connection to auto racing. There is no doubt that several drivers in the 1960's and 70's used these chronographs as tools of their profession. In reality though, there is no real difference between Heuers, Breitlings and the lesser known brands except for the name on dial, as very little in the way of modifications to the base ebauche were done back then.

I mention this only because it is possible to pay many thousands or only a few hundred dollars for an example of the Cal 11/12/14/15 depending solely on the name on the dial. Like most vintage chronographs, when they are in proper repair, they are very accurate watches. However, when they need repair, the cost can get astronomical as some parts are very difficult to source.

I understand that there is a German company that has dug up a few of the original movements and have put them in modern cases, as well.

http://www.guinand-watch.com/images/stories/guinand/assets/Info_Buren_E.pdf

Hope this helps,
gatorcpa

Well said |> I've seen a Hamilton c.12 that looked exactly like that Heuer. It sold for $500 on eBay 3 months ago. Now, compare that to the asking price of these vintage Heuer's and you'd see a huge mark-up on price solely due to the name on the dial. Still, they ARE gorgeous watches and you are owning a piece of history by having the Heuer name on the dial |>

[eptaz]

Vintage watch collecting is an interesting thing, as there are a lot of variables that factor into the desirability and value of a specific watch. Sometimes, watches are superficially similar, while other times, it does come down to the name on the dial and the history and reputation built into that name.

Sometimes, even variants of the very same model from the same manufacturer are considered far more collectable and valuable than others. Since we're talking Autavias, consider that the white-dialed "Siffert" variant, as compared to my Viceroy. Other than a different dial and hands, these are really the same watch, but whereas the Viceroy can still be found for under $2,000, Sifferts are going for more than twice that price. Further to that, you can find "poor man's Autavias" from manufacturers like Dugena, which are, again, virtually identical, for far less than even the Viceroy variant.

Heuer isn't unique in this. The same can be said of certain vintage Tissots and Omegas, or Tudors and Rolexes. Hamiltons and Heuers and Clebars and Zodiacs, the list goes on.

It just comes down to your own motivation, whether you like the style or the movement, or even the brand; there's no shame in buying a name, especially when that name carries a certain, well deserved history and reputation. That price and collectibility usually exists for a reason, even when those reasons are not overtly apparent.

I've been looking for a c.321 Seamaster for ages, now, but they're tough to find in nice condition, and prices continue to rise. I've been tempted by certain Tissots, which are virtually identical in appearance and use the same movement, but I've decided to hold off, be patient, and wait for my Omega, even though I'm going to pay considerably more. For me, there's value in that name.

eric

[Ferrari 312T]

I agree Eric.

I saw a Breitling Datora on the sales forum the other day that looked almost identical except they wanted about $1400. Even though the Breitling was a more pretigious brand the Autavia is a famous model with the motor racing connections which attracted me to the watch more.

As for the seamaster 321 I have seen the Tissot's you refer to. The 321 is far too small for me but I always drool when I see GJ's

[JohnKennedy]

They are great watches and there is a fantastic community of dedicated enthusiasts. I have an Cal.11 "Siffert" Autavia and it is one of my favorite watches. :-!

[georges zaslavsky]

the vintage heuers have all their charms, they are very interesting watches offering interesting calibres. Prices can be expensive though. They are as equal to collect as Omegas.

[gatorcpa]

Well said |> I've seen a Hamilton c.12 that looked exactly like that Heuer. It sold for $500 on eBay 3 months ago. Now, compare that to the asking price of these vintage Heuer's and you'd see a huge mark-up on price solely due to the name on the dial. Still, they ARE gorgeous watches and you are owning a piece of history by having the Heuer name on the dial |>

QT -

If you own a watch that was actually worn by Jo Siffert, then you own a piece of history.:-!

If you own a watch that looks like one worn by Jo Siffert, then you own a watch that looks like a watch that is a piece of history. ;-)

That's one reason why I don't buy into the hype regarding racing, space travel, etc. and don't really see the value in owning such a piece, unless I get an unusually good bargain on it. Which happens...well, like never.:-d

Heuers, Speedmasters and Submariners are all well-engineered, accurate timepieces. That's why they all sold in massive quantites when new. Perhaps that is one of the reasons that they are hard to find today in good condition. Their owners used (sometime abused) them very well.

Take care,
gatorcpa

P.S. Good advertising helps, too!

[spogehead]

I really like them, it is one of only a handfull of vintage watches I would consider owning, I have never seen one in the flesh so would only buy after trying one out.

They do look amazing in the pics though especially Eric's!

[DMB]

35 years old, serviced once. It's my most accurate watch at + or - 2 seconds a week. The Heuer Calculator with the slide rule bezel is the ultimate geek watch. It's my favorite watch and odds are slim I'll see another "in the wild".

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/Strap_0182.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/Tools_0121.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/straps_0550.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/straps_0458.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/Heuer/XMAS_0957.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/Heuer/Heuer_0907.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/Heuer/Heuer_0896.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q121/DBaldwinAPSO/IMG_0752.jpg

- David

[Neil(UK)]

Cal 11/12's are extremely difficult to get parts for.

Plenty of other Heuers available though.

Here is my cal 7730 boot sale Autavia. :-)

http://snap26.photobox.co.uk/87166198dea28111885cd14f5c41c64808c30b7f8348b99379 0c41f8.jpg

http://img.photobox.co.uk/528539319dd9c967939a2ff98929ed01a702057fbf20f7eb6a 28df17.jpg