Frequency of servicing?

[Shangas]

I'm curious to know,

How often should a mechanical timepiece (pocket watch or early wristwatch) be taken to a professional watchmaker and be serviced/cleaned/re-lubed (etc)?

I've read everything from every 18 months to as long as every ten years. And does the frequency of the watch's use determine how often or how rarely it needs to be checked? I remember reading somewhere that not winding a mechanical watch and using it regularly is harmful to it because the lubricants pool up and go all stiff and gummy whereas lubricants in a regularly-used watch will remain nice and slippery...is this true?

[Ray MacDonald]

If a pocket watch is in regular use, every 5 years should be fine. If you start having problems it's another matter of course.
Pocket watches on the railroad in the steam locomotive era were checked and serviced every 18 months, but they had hard use in those days what with heat humidity and coal dust.
Watches that are dust and water resistant may go longer but if it's a really expensive watch I'd still recommend every 5 years under regular use.
With modern lubricants the concern about a watch getting gummed up while sitting in a drawer is considerably lower than before. I should think that if a pocket watch stays at home, doesn't run that often it could easily go 10 years without need of a service.

[Shangas]

Thanks for the reply, Ray.

I'm expecting my Waltham back from the watchmaker in a week or two. It cost me a pretty penny to get it fixed, so I want to be sure I can look after it properly once it's back. I do intend to use it as a regular timepiece so that's why I asked about the frequency of servicing.

Why is it that if a watch isn't used often, it can last longer between servicings?

[Ray MacDonald]

Well if you don't use something it's not going to wear out as fast, or get exposed to moisture, dirt and dust I suppose. I suspect that many of the pocket watches we see today that are still running did not have a hard life. Probably many were put away in drawers and left there when wristwatches came into vogue. A watch won't wear out even if it's gummed up - if you don't wind it. With modern lubricants it probably won't get gummed up anyway.
Those watches that were serviced and used all the time probably are still running today. But the vast majority of them were not serviced until something went wrong. That's why there is so much junk around for parts only.
Woiuld you rather have a vintage car with 5000 miles on it, or a well maintained similar model with 250,000 miles on it?

[Shangas]

Oh so that's how it is...I see. Okay I understand now.

[Ray MacDonald]

Nothing wrong with regular use if you service them. If I were you I'd be on the lookout for an Elgin to go with your Waltham. Then you can rotate or have a spare if one needs to go in for service.
Remember that you are using an antique and reliability will be dependent upon routine service and fixing minor problems before they become major ones.

[Shangas]

Hi Ray,

I own three watches, the Waltham which I bought as a birthday present for myself to mark a special occasion, my Swatch Irony and my TAGheuer diver's watch. Whenn I'm not using the Waltham I'll probably use the Swatch. I'm not sure if my budget can handle the maintenance two antique pocket watches!

By the way Ray, I'm curious to know - what kind of person might've bought the Waltham originally? It's a 7-jewel movement and it's in a rolled-gold case marked to wear for five years. Now that's obviously not on the upper end of watch-quality but it's fairly good (it's good enough for me, at least), who might buy such a piece?

---

Edit: Ray, in the event of my buying another antique pocket watch, why do you suggest an Elgin?

[Ray MacDonald]

Well not being an early 20th century demographer I'll try to answer this.

A 7 jewel watch was the cheapest really good watch you could buy and was probably purchased by someone who appreciated a good timekeeper but didn't have a lot of spare cash to invest. Someone who was a working stiff, a young person starting out, a store clerk or bank teller , clergyman maybe.

A 17 jewel watch was purchased by someone a bit higher up on the food chain - bank manager, senior bureaucrat, businessman, young lawyer.

A 21 jewel or higher was either purchased by somebody who was really wealthy or somebody who had to buy a great watch as a condition of his job, railroad employee maybe. These railroad guys had to buy a specific tool watch and paid it off on time usually.

I always recommend an Elgin as a good watch for someone starting out. They made 50 million watches so lots of parts around. Good quality as well.

[Shangas]

Ok. Whenever I buy something second-hand, I wonder about who might've owned it before me and what they did with it, especially personal things like watches.

I may buy myself an Elgin one day, but not this year...at least I don't think I will. Who knows, I might get lucky. I have a tendency to want to buy stuff from the bigger brand-names. With pens it was Parker, Waterman, Montblanc and Sheaffer. When I decided about buying an antique pocket watch I first thought Hamilton. But when I saw the Waltham, I changed my mind.

Thanks for all the info, Ray. It was all very interesting.

By the way - for their job, railway-employees such as conductors and engineers, had to, of course, have very good-quality watches to keep time reliably for safety reasons - Did they have to pay for these watches out of their own pocket? Or were they supplied by their employers? Were there any special deals/discounts for watches sold to people working on the railroads? It's just that a 17 or a 21-jewel watch must've been extremely expensive. Would a railway-conductor be paid enough to be able afford such a piece?

[Ray MacDonald]

The railway employee had to pay for his own watch out of his own pocket and unless he did so he did not get hired.
Normally they got a cheap watch case and kept costs down that way.
A typical watch cost 3 months salary for an engineer or conductor. They paid for them by borrowing the money and paying off the loan on time.
Elgin is *the* big name in pocket watches - they were the General Motors of Watchmaking in 1900. Hamilton is better known today. Waltham is another great name with a great history - even older than Elgin, although Elgin got bigger and was eventually in business longer.
The truly outstanding railroad grade watchmaker of the early 20th century was Howard. A 1910 14K Keystone Howard will make you drool.

[JohnF]

Hi -

A really good rule of thumb for servicing your watch is to know and document its time-keeping characteristics, and have it serviced when these change.

That is the rule of thumb that all the watchmakers I know apply to watches that are in more-or-less constant use. Obviously, different principles apply to vintage watches of unknown maintenance and watches that only occasionally see use.

Having your watch worked on without any problems may or may not be proper maintenance: it depends heavily on your watchmaker, and hence you need to have a good one. A bad watchmaker can really muck up an otherwise perfect watch by being sloppy about scratching the movement when disassembling, doing a poor and rushed job of reassembly (and improper use of lubricants can also screw things up...), resulting in a botched job that can be a real heartbreaker.

I wish I could find a watchmaker that would really do a good job of documenting the isochronism of watches he's worked on, using computer-based tools and generating a right and proper report. But watchmakers tend to be very conservative about that stuff and not many customers could actually understand any of it...

JohnF

[Shangas]

Hi John,

Well the history of the watch as I know it is very short...

It's an open-faced Waltham with a 7-jewel movement, stem-set, stem-wound, circa 1899 (According to the serial-number). I bought it from a jewellery-dealer at a market who said he purchased it from another man who told him that the watch was last serviced two years ago (so - 2006).

Now whoever serviced that watch did a pretty good job - it runs and it keeps time extremely well, but it didn't run for a full measure. I noticed this when I wound it. I bought this watch wanting it to be a special landmark present for myself, this being my 21st year on earth. So I started searching for a watchmaker. I tried three before I found my current one.

It's actually a whole team of people, so their website says - experts in repairing jewellery, modern and antique watches, 50 years experience between them. Their shop was in town, so it was easy for me to go and speak to the owner/manager. He had a quick look over the watch and I explained what the problem was, he said he'd hand it to his watchmaker who fixes his vintage timepieces and get back to me.

That was a little over a week ago. About four days later, I got a phone-call from the same man saying that his watchmaker had looked over the watch and that repairs were possible. He told me the price and I said yes, it was fine. Go ahead. The manager told me that the price covered the broken parts, the replacement, a timecheck. He didn't mention a cleaning, though, and I admit I forgot to ask.

I assume that since this watchmaker would have to disassemble the watch to repair it and put in the new piece, he'd clean it and re-lube it as well. Especially for the price I'm paying. I know for sure that he said he'd time the watch as part of his service, though. Told me to expect it finished within "two to three weeks". And that was on the 23rd of July.

What made me go to these last guys, was that I saw some of the watches which they'd repaired and offered for sale on their website - amongst them was an English-made hunter-case watch from the 1850s - Key-wind, key-set. I figured - if they can fix that, they can fix mine. Seems I was right. I hope I am.

[Ray MacDonald]

I'd say if they regularly fix English levers they know what they are doing. These can be tricky due to the fusee chain drive.
I'd ask the store to give you a report on exactly what was done so you know in future what to expect. I suspect the watchmaker will have looked the watch over closely and if it needed cleaning and re-lubing he would do it while it was in the shop.

[Eeeb]

A really good rule of thumb for servicing your watch is to know and document its time-keeping characteristics, and have it serviced when these change...

I wish I could find a watchmaker that would really do a good job of documenting the isochronism of watches he's worked on, using computer-based tools and generating a right and proper report. But watchmakers tend to be very conservative about that stuff and not many customers could actually understand any of it...

JohnF

Excellent advice!

It is my habit to get a COA for any vintage mechanicals I harvest unless I know the vendor and can trust their assertion it was recently serviced. (I have found the assertion is frequently not an accurate statement).

My watchmaker also warns against 'over servicing' saying every time you take a watch apart it is possible something will break. (For Eta movements, no problem. But he hates parts hunts for rare movements.)

Now I know how to determine when a piece needs re-servicing |>

And he too doesn't like describing in detail the watches' operation often saying "it's good enough". That's one of the reasons I got my own machine. (I haven't told him I have one yet... but he'll figure it out eventually. I now come in with details on which positions have the biggest problems ;-) )

[Shangas]

I'd say if they regularly fix English levers they know what they are doing. These can be tricky due to the fusee chain drive.
I'd ask the store to give you a report on exactly what was done so you know in future what to expect. I suspect the watchmaker will have looked the watch over closely and if it needed cleaning and re-lubing he would do it while it was in the shop.

Thanks, guys, yes, I will ask what was done when I go to pick it up - hopefully this week, or next week. Didn't get it fixed in time for my birthday, but there's another one coming up in about half a month which I'm hoping I can take it to.

On another forum, one of the members said that I should keep a note of who the watchmaker is if they manage to repair this so that I can send it back there when necessary, when it comes time for routine maintenance as, he told me (and as I now know!), real watchmakers who can fix stuff are quite rare these days.