A very rare Shanghai A591 watch

[soviet]

I just found this rare Shanghai A591 watch yesterday. It is one of the greatest catch of vintage Chinese watches in recent months! :-! :-D

Comared to Shanghai A581 watches, I would say the ratio is less than 1%. However, I am not very sure of the difference between it and those A581s. Looking at its movement, it could be an experimental watch with a shock absorber on the balance.

Shanghai A592 could be the first Chinese lady watch. It is smaller than the A591, but with the same movement.

Both model have a chrome plated case.

[Chascomm]

:-! Once again you win the prize!

Take care of that chrome-on-brass case. I reckon 1959 would be about the last year in which brass was more available for watchmaking than steel in China.

If the A591 is shock-proofed, then what is the mechanical difference between the A591 and A611?

[infinitime]

Excellent find! I am very happy that this 591 went to a true collector! How is the condition of the brass case?

[soviet]

:-! Once again you win the prize!

Take care of that chrome-on-brass case. I reckon 1959 would be about the last year in which brass was more available for watchmaking than steel in China.

If the A591 is shock-proofed, then what is the mechanical difference between the A591 and A611?

Thanks. :-) The only difference I can tell is that the A591 still has a screw balance. And you are right that many A611 and later A581 watches has a S/S case.

Together with comrade derek, I think we can open a museum with an almost complete product line of Shanghai watches ever built. |>

[soviet]

Excellent find! I am very happy that this 591 went to a true collector! How is the condition of the brass case?

Hi Derek, I am happy with this catch. It cost the same as a textured dial Zhongshan that I bought at the same time.

I wonder if you have found Zhou Enlai's Shanghai watch? The A623 date watch? I never saw one in person. :-(

The chrome case of this A591 is O.K. It is better than most of my Russian vintage watches. My A 592's chrome case is even better. Have you found some A591 and A592s? They seem quite rare.

Here is an image of the A592 and the elusive A623.

[infinitime]

I wonder if you have found Zhou Enlai's Shanghai watch? The A623 date watch? I never saw one in person. :-(

The chrome case of this A591 is O.K. It is better than most of my Russian vintage watches. My A 592's chrome case is even better. Have you found some A591 and A592s? They seem quite rare.

Here is an image of the A592 and the elusive A623.

Hi Zhang, can you tell me the source for the information about Premier Zhou's watch? I was always under the impression that it was a black dial 611... I can't recall where I read about this, but I think it may have been in a Chinese newspaper or website. I have only seen the A623 in pictures (actually, I think the first picture I saw of the A623 was on this forum), but I thought that the A623 had the distinction of being the first Chinese watch with luminscent markers?

As for the A591, I have this suspicion that the case design is virtually identical to a chrome-plated WuYi I picked up earlier. I will try to scan a picture of that case when I get home tonight.

As for your suggestion, I think we should seriously give some thought to compiling a catalogue of Shanghai watch models. While I am less optimistic that we have the complete series between the two of us (particularly given all the 581 dial variants), I am confident that we should have about 75% of the models. I think we should set standards though, for both resolution and size of the pictures. I usually take my pictures by placing them face-down on a flatbed scanner, with a white paper background.... Can this be the beginning of the Chinese version of the Juri Levenberg series...:) I am sure that Chascomm can also provide some images...:)

[soviet]

Hi Derek, I think I saw an image of Zhou Enali's watch. It is for sure not a black dial A611, or maybe he had more than one Shanghai watches? But his A623 is a one with luminous marks and hands.

Chascomm has suggested an outside image host site for those watch images. I am not very sure of his intention. Chascomm, are you concerned that too many imges might take up too much bandwidth on this forum?
If that is not a problem, I think we can compile a catalouge of early Shanghai watches. It could be an interesting source for anyone who wish to know more about early Shanghai and Chinese watch industry and will be the 1st English source ever published.
Chascomm could always help us with his vast knowledge about watches and movements.

I think as long as the image is clear, any method is O.K. But I feel a digital camera is more convenient.

And who is Juri Levenberg?

[infinitime]

And who is Juri Levenberg?

Juri Levenberg is a German collector of Soviet/Russian watches, who has published a series of books with general information on several hundred Poljot, Vostoks, Raketa, Slava and other Russian watches. While the information is sometimes not perfect, it is a good starting point for collectors interested in Russian watches.

[infinitime]

Somewhat off topic, but do you have any idea as to what watch President Hu wears? I know that President Putin wears a $60,000 Patek Phillipe, while President Bush wears a $50 Timex, I have no idea as to what watches other world leaders wear. Interestingly, I read that Chairman Khruschev wore a Slava for many years...

[soviet]

As for the A591, I have this suspicion that the case design is virtually identical to a chrome-plated WuYi I picked up earlier. I will try to scan a picture of that case when I get home tonight.

As for your suggestion, I think we should seriously give some thought to compiling a catalogue of Shanghai watch models. While I am less optimistic that we have the complete series between the two of us (particularly given all the 581 dial variants), I am confident that we should have about 75% of the models. I think we should set standards though, for both resolution and size of the pictures. I usually take my pictures by placing them face-down on a flatbed scanner, with a white paper background.... Can this be the beginning of the Chinese version of the Juri Levenberg series...:) I am sure that Chascomm can also provide some images...:)

Derek, I have a A581 with a chrome case that I think is similar to that of the A591. However, I am not sure if both are original A581 cases.

Also bad vendors are asking RMB600+ for a rare dial A581 these days, and they would give you that impression that he did not really care about selling the watch. :-|

Could this forum have helped fan the heat of vintage Chinese watches collecting? I have seen a very sharp price rise for those rare and old watches?!

[soviet]

Somewhat off topic, but do you have any idea as to what watch President Hu wears? I know that President Putin wears a $60,000 Patek Phillipe, while President Bush wears a $50 Timex, I have no idea as to what watches other world leaders wear. Interestingly, I read that Chairman Khruschev wore a Slava for many years...

I don't know. But I would guess they may want to give people a good impression by wearing an ordinary quartz watch. All those high officials obssesed with expensive toys did not end up well( Mao's wife, former Mayor of Beijing Chen,etc.). :-D

[infinitime]

Also bad vendors are asking RMB600+ for a rare dial A581 these days, and they would give you that impression that he did not really care about selling the watch. :-|

Could this forum have helped fan the heat of vintage Chinese watches collecting? I have seen a very sharp price rise for those rare and old watches?!

Possibly, but I would attribute it more to the Chinese language discussion forums. Given that most vendors I've encountered in China unlikely to frequent an English-language forum, i suspect that most would not be aware of this forum. I have found though, that I have to increasingly search for sources in smaller cities in the interior to find vintage watches in good condition. I am limited by the fact that I am livining in Vancouver, and clearly unable to make frequent trips to China. It may just be an effect of supply and demand, as many vintage watches were simply discarded or destroyed by non-collectors. "Hey, that new Seiko looks nice, I am thinking of replacing my old Shanghai"... :(

[infinitime]

I don't know. But I would guess they may want to give people a good impression by wearing an ordinary quartz watch. All those high officials obssesed with expensive toys did not end up well( Mao's wife, former Mayor of Beijing Chen,etc.). :-D

It would be interesting to know if they buy domestic... I know that there was a contraversy a few years ago with high-ranking officials being chauffeured around in various Mercedes and BMW's... Since then, a new ordinance came out mandating that all Chinese government officials were to use "domestic" vehicles. As such, everyone suddenly started buying Audi's (which are manufactured in China and deemed "domestic"). Didn't really help the PRECEPTION that they were still buying imports. Very few actually bought Hongqi or other indigenous variants.

[Chascomm]

Somewhat off topic, but do you have any idea as to what watch President Hu wears? I know that President Putin wears a $60,000 Patek Phillipe, while President Bush wears a $50 Timex, I have no idea as to what watches other world leaders wear. Interestingly, I read that Chairman Khruschev wore a Slava for many years...I think it unlikely that Khrushchev wore Slava when chairman, as the Slava men's watches were only introduced years after he was deposed.

[Chascomm]

Chascomm has suggested an outside image host site for those watch images. I am not very sure of his intention. Chascomm, are you concerned that too many imges might take up too much bandwidth on this forum?
If that is not a problem, I think we can compile a catalouge of early Shanghai watches. It could be an interesting source for anyone who wish to know more about early Shanghai and Chinese watch industry and will be the 1st English source ever published.I had 2 concerns; one was that this site has had one catastrophic crash already, so an independent image storage would be safer, even though the articles referencing those images is located here.

My other concern was that by attaching images to a post, the thumbnail images are lined up at the bottom of the page, rather than being alongside the text as would be the case where using externally referenced images. So for a catalogue of watches you want to have the description of each watch next to the image e.g. name, description, image; name, description, image ... etc

[soviet]

It would be interesting to know if they buy domestic... I know that there was a contraversy a few years ago with high-ranking officials being chauffeured around in various Mercedes and BMW's... Since then, a new ordinance came out mandating that all Chinese government officials were to use "domestic" vehicles. As such, everyone suddenly started buying Audi's (which are manufactured in China and deemed "domestic"). Didn't really help the PRECEPTION that they were still buying imports. Very few actually bought Hongqi or other indigenous variants.

Cars and watches are not big deal. Some poor area county still built splendid office buildings better than some big city government office buildings in the US when people there could not afford basic education and medical service. <|

In the 1960's, Cars were allocated according to the rankings of officials. State leaders would ride in a Red Flag, ministers usually would ride a Soviet ZIM, and a bureau director would have to share a Shanghai, Beijing DONG FANG HONG, or a Soviet Volga, Victory, etc. Today, houses and other services are still allocated and privided this way. <|

[soviet]

Derek, I have a A581 with a chrome case that I think is similar to that of the A591. However, I am not sure if both are original A581 cases.

Also bad vendors are asking RMB600+ for a rare dial A581 these days, and they would give you that impression that he did not really care about selling the watch. :-|

Could this forum have helped fan the heat of vintage Chinese watches collecting? I have seen a very sharp price rise for those rare and old watches?!

Here is another example of an earlier Shanghai A581's case. This is a Shanghai A581 made in 1959. It has no date codes under the balance. This is one of my favorite A581s with this textured dial and a S/S case(probably the earliest S/S Shanghai watches?).

The caseback also has that cut off dents for openning. I found this type of casebacks only on earlier A581s.

Only some 80,000 watches were made in 1959.