Dials for 168.004, cal 561 c. 1963

[pish]

Hello
I'd be grateful for advice. I would like to replace the dial on my Constellation 168.004 (or 14), or get it restored properly. It's a cal 561 dated about 1963. There are only a couple of images on the Omega Vintage website, and the note that the models ""may have existed with different dials". Can anyone help me find images of dials for this period so that I can try to find an undamaged dial from the same series and period, or get the dial restored again. And, am I doing the right thing here: it was my decision to get it restored (unwisely in retrospect) and hasn't worked out. Is there any other choice other than replace or restore? (head in the oven?). Thanks.

[Eeeb]

Ebay is your friend... but don't expect listings to have the model number. Over time almost every model of the Omega Constellation shows up. Sometimes NOS dials even show up.

Omega will restore it for you for big bucks.

Does the bracelet or case or movement have some special significance? A lot of these were precious metals. In these cases, just buy a replacement and have the dials swapped.

To many collectors, dials that have an aged patina are preferable to new looking restorations... I'm one of them. I would only restore a dial if it was so bad reading the time was difficult.

But then I don't dye my hair... I let my age show... it adds character :-d

[pish]

Thank you for your response. It's an 18 ct case. The dial was badly spotted. In retrospect it would have been better to get it cleaned and fixed, but I'm new at this and thought restoration would bring it back to the beauty of the original, but that's the restore/not restore debate. There's no personal significance, but I need to get a dial to swap it with, and don't know if I can rely on if ebay listings, where some of the items will have dials that are either restored in a style different to the dials available at the period, or dials that are outside the period (for example, mid or late 60s, when some features, such as the surround for the date aperture changed). So I need to know which dials were available then on that watch. I just want to respect the watch and not produce something which is a hotch-potch. Thanks again.

[Janne]

If the rest of the watch is in good condition, Omega can restore (maybe even supply a NOS) the dial only.
To give you an idea of cost:
About 4-5 years ago, I send my Omega Constellation f300 (through an AD) to Bienne.
It needed:
New/restored dial.
New/restored hands.
Movement was f..ked, the old battery had leaked.
No modern battery fitted, so they had to make a new "receptable" for a modern sized batter,
The crystal was badly scratched
Bezel and case scratched
Mesh bracelet scratched, including the clasp.

When it came back, it looked, worked and felt like a brand new watch.
Cost? Approx £700. And they warrantyied it for 2 years!

IMO - well worth it. Yes, some skilled watch makers out there, but the Manufacturer is THE best!

[mondodec]

Agree with those who suggest that unless dials are "damaged' as opposed to aged, then its probably a better proposition to keep them as is.

I wouldnt recommend sending such a vintage (It IS a Connie isnt it?) to Bienne. I have seen some fairly poor replacement dials (theyre done by an external refinishing house) coming back from Bienne. For later watches where Omega still has the parts, the work usually is of a higher standard, but with 40 year old vintage watches - there are better options than Bienne.

Kirk Rich Dial in California (TEL: 213.626.6849 FAX: 909.941.9316 )does a pretty good job of refinishing, but you must give them explicit instructions and preferable ref pics.

For examples of dials that appeared in the 004, check out some of the essays on my site.

http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/

Cheers

Desmond



Hello
I'd be grateful for advice. I would like to replace the dial on my Constellation 168.004 (or 14), or get it restored properly. It's a cal 561 dated about 1963. There are only a couple of images on the Omega Vintage website, and the note that the models ""may have existed with different dials". Can anyone help me find images of dials for this period so that I can try to find an undamaged dial from the same series and period, or get the dial restored again. And, am I doing the right thing here: it was my decision to get it restored (unwisely in retrospect) and hasn't worked out. Is there any other choice other than replace or restore? (head in the oven?). Thanks.

[mondodec]

As an afterthought on Bienne dials for vinatge watches where there is no other stock, have a look at this one, sent to me some time ago (if I recall) by someone who had their Connie dial done in Bienne.

A lot of refinishing houses could do a damn site better methinks and not how they've used a press to achieve the pie pan facets rather than the original manufacturing method.

Cheers

desmondhttp://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g86/mondodec/factory.jpg

[pish]

Thank you for all the help, and for the picture of the refinishing.

I bought the watch on impulse in an auction at Christies in London a few years ago, and it's been in a drawer since. I brought it into Omega in London for service late last year, and foolishly also asked them to restore the dial.


Omega passed it to the firm contracted to do their service work, who then subcontracted the dial restoration to their contact. The dial was, or appeared to me to be, a pie pan. When it came back, a circle had been drawn around the central part of the dial, the outer ring brushed concentically, and the central area brushed vertically. I could not remember ever seeing such a dial on such a watch, and it resembled poorly the dial I had handed to Omega. It was no longer a pie pan with angles.

Omega were very accommodating and listened carefully to my remarks. They returned it to their service centre, who contacted me to discuss how we might proceed.

There appear to be two options:
1. Attempt to restore the original dial to some semblance of a dial of the period. I am not optimistic about this.
2. Replace the dial with a New Old Stock dial for that case which is available from the Omega parts dept. This is an attractive option to me, because the new dial will be in good condition, and pass the MOY test.

But, the Omega NOS dial does appear to differ from original dials of the period. The date surround is flat rather than multiple-bevelled (perhaps the NOS dial was designed for later 564 calibers). Perhaps there are other differences discernible to an expert eye.

It might be possible to transfer the bevelled date surround from the original dial on the watch to the NOS dial, but the NOS dial would then have no integrity as a NOS dial, and there may be other differences on the dial I haven't seen. Would it be wise to do tamper with the NOS dial in this way?

So, which way to go?

This is why I'd like to see a range of sample dials for the watch for that period: to see restoration possibilities, and to compare the NOS dial more closely with originals; were there dials between 62 and 65 that had flat rather than bevelled date apertures, for example? I'm a bit suprised there's only one picture on the Omega Vintage site, and that I can't find such a resource of images of original dials on the web, given that there's such interest in these lovely watches.

[JimH]

Thank you for all the help, and for the picture of the refinishing.

I bought the watch on impulse in an auction at Christies in London a few years ago, and it's been in a drawer since. I brought it into Omega in London for service late last year, and foolishly also asked them to restore the dial.


Omega passed it to the firm contracted to do their service work, who then subcontracted the dial restoration to their contact. The dial was, or appeared to me to be, a pie pan. When it came back, a circle had been drawn around the central part of the dial, the outer ring brushed concentically, and the central area brushed vertically. I could not remember ever seeing such a dial on such a watch, and it resembled poorly the dial I had handed to Omega. It was no longer a pie pan with angles.

Omega were very accommodating and listened carefully to my remarks. They returned it to their service centre, who contacted me to discuss how we might proceed.

There appear to be two options:
1. Attempt to restore the original dial to some semblance of a dial of the period. I am not optimistic about this.
2. Replace the dial with a New Old Stock dial for that case which is available from the Omega parts dept. This is an attractive option to me, because the new dial will be in good condition, and pass the MOY test.

But, the Omega NOS dial does appear to differ from original dials of the period. The date surround is flat rather than multiple-bevelled (perhaps the NOS dial was designed for later 564 calibers). Perhaps there are other differences discernible to an expert eye.

It might be possible to transfer the bevelled date surround from the original dial on the watch to the NOS dial, but the NOS dial would then have no integrity as a NOS dial, and there may be other differences on the dial I haven't seen. Would it be wise to do tamper with the NOS dial in this way?

So, which way to go?

This is why I'd like to see a range of sample dials for the watch for that period: to see restoration possibilities, and to compare the NOS dial more closely with originals; were there dials between 62 and 65 that had flat rather than bevelled date apertures, for example? I'm a bit suprised there's only one picture on the Omega Vintage site, and that I can't find such a resource of images of original dials on the web, given that there's such interest in these lovely watches.

It is very difficult to assess your situation without some pictures of what you what looks like now. Some pictures of the "NOS" dial would also be useful. I suspect your original dial is not a "pie-pan" dial but rather a "cushion" style dial. Here is what a true "pie-pan" dial looks like:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/hodek-314159/omegaConstellation11.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/hodek-314159/omegaConstellation2.jpg

The dial actually consists of two levels. The "cushion" style dial (sometimes also referred to as "pie-pan") is just one level with a convex surface.

Pictures of what you have would certainly be helpful.

[Eeeb]

My vote: NOS

You can not always restore a watch to "as new". Do not get too picky or you will always be unhappy. Instead look at the degree of improvement, not the attainment of perfection.

[pish]

Thank you for your comments and images. They were really helpful. Here are two pictures of the watch prior to restoration, and one of the NOS dial. I have heard from the service centre, who say their restorer thinks it might be a dial made to look like a faceted pie pan instead of a real pie pan.

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu252/pish_02/Consface.jpg



http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu252/pish_02/Consface2.jpg



http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu252/pish_02/1680004dial1.jpg

[JimH]

It looks like your original dial was quite similar to the one below with a true pie-pan dial (168.004 in 18K gold).

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/hodek-314159/constellation1.jpg

Your original dial certainly does appear to be a true "pie-pan" type. It does not look like a dial which has been modified to look like a true "pie-pan".

Actually, the original dial does not look bad (at least in the pictures - of course, spotting may not show depending on the camera angle). It certainly doesn't appear to have been a candidate for a re-dial (which is always a last resort).

Since you don't show a picture of what it looks like now it hard to comment further on what they did. If the "refinished" dial is no longer a true "pie-pan" it almost sounds like they replaced your dial with another. Can you post a detailed picture?

The NOS dial is of the "cushion" or "pillow" type and might work with your watch but the picture is rather small to say much. The date surround is, as you say, different.

It's also possible that a better re-dial job could be done with your current dial.

Sounds like you have entered the "twilight zone" of re-dialing which often leads to disappointment and frustration.

[mondodec]

Totally agree with JimH

Also the replacement dial has the wrong fonts in the Constellation script and was generally used in much later models.

I think your experience simply reinforces what I said about using Omega to restore vintage watches where the original stock has dried up. I havent seen too many happy endings.

Cheers

Desmond

[pish]

Thank you, though I'm still hoping for a happy ending - a triumph of optimism over realism perhaps. You mentioned "the original manufacturing method" in a previous post. Could you refer me to some reading on that, or explain how these pie pan dials were originally made, if it's not too much trouble.