My new catch, a very nice Zhongshan

[soviet]

With a stroke of good luck, I found this very nice 9 jewels Zhongshan. It has the most interesting dial among my Zhongshan collection. It has two well depicted phoenixes, the holy bird of Chinese culture. :-! Phoenix was the symbol of empress, and dragon is for emperorers. This could be an equally rare dial as those double dragons Zhongshan dials.
I also have an interesting dial with 8 peacocks. |>

This dial is still in a very good condition, and I am very pleased with this find. Now I will try to find the elusive Zhongshan with a double dragons dial.

[Chascomm]

With a stroke of good luck, I found this very nice 9 jewels Zhongshan. It has the most interesting dial among my Zhongshan collection. It has two well depicted phoenixes, the holy bird of Chinese culture. :-! Phoenix was the symbol of empress, and dragon is for emperorers. This could be an equally rare dial as those double dragons Zhongshan dials.
I also have an interesting dial with 8 peacocks. |>

This dial is still in a very good condition, and I am very pleased with this find. Now I will try to find the elusive Zhongshan with a double dragons dial.That is a really beautiful dial :-p

So many distinctive versions! A collector could devote himself entirely to collecting Zhongshans. Good luck with your search for the dragon. I wonder if there is a version with both a dragon and a phoenix?

[soviet]

That is a really beautiful dial :-p

So many distinctive versions! A collector could devote himself entirely to collecting Zhongshans. Good luck with your search for the dragon. I wonder if there is a version with both a dragon and a phoenix?

I began to wonder how many dial variations Zhongshan watch has. I just found another new version. Perhaps the designers of Nanjing watch factory already predicated a future collector's market for those watches?

It seems many people are now collecting Zhongshan watches. Some already offered good prices to buy from me. I did not realize that I have collected so many variations. :-!

[soviet]

Here is the new catch, a new Zhongshan dial. |>

[soviet]

That is a really beautiful dial :-p

So many distinctive versions! A collector could devote himself entirely to collecting Zhongshans. Good luck with your search for the dragon. I wonder if there is a version with both a dragon and a phoenix?

I just found anoter dial with 8 deers. |> I saw some very nice Zhongshan with interesting dials but the price was a bit high. There is even a dark blue textured dial. :-p

Now I have dials with 8 peacocks, two pheonixes, and 8 deers plus many others. I will try to be a good Zhongshan collector.

[soviet]

You are hard to impress! :-) How about this one? Have you ever seen a watch with such a fine patterned dial? Especially a watch of only RMB 30 (3 euros)? :gold

[Chascomm]

You are hard to impress! :-) How about this one? Have you ever seen a watch with such a fine patterned dial? Especially a watch of only RMB 30 (3 euros)? :gold :-D OK, I'm impressed :gold That's a classic.

And that kind of money wouldn't buy a bowl of noodles in this town O|

[soviet]

I just found anoter dial with 8 deers. |> I saw some very nice Zhongshan with interesting dials but the price was a bit high. There is even a dark blue textured dial. :-p



Here is an image of this 8 deers dial. I heard that there are textured dials with many colours, red, blue, green.etc. :-p

[Chascomm]

Here is an image of this 8 deers dial. I heard that there are textured dials with many colours, red, blue, green.etc. :-pThey must be rare |>

One day I will make my own coloured dial Zhongshan, but right now i am scared of ruining a good watch O|

I was looking closely at the red Shuangling dial, and I think I understand how the depth of colour is achieved; there is a thin layer of black paint on the outer part of the dial with the metal exposed on the inner part, this is covered with a semi-transparent layer of deep red, and a thick coat of clear laquer is laid on top of that.

If I attempt the same sort of thing on a textured Zhongshan dial, the layers of paint will make the dial thicker, so I will need to be careful that there is enough height in the pinions to mount the hands without them scraping on the dial.

[soviet]

They must be rare |>

One day I will make my own coloured dial Zhongshan, but right now i am scared of ruining a good watch O|

I was looking closely at the red Shuangling dial, and I think I understand how the depth of colour is achieved; there is a thin layer of black paint on the outer part of the dial with the metal exposed on the inner part, this is covered with a semi-transparent layer of deep red, and a thick coat of clear laquer is laid on top of that.

If I attempt the same sort of thing on a textured Zhongshan dial, the layers of paint will make the dial thicker, so I will need to be careful that there is enough height in the pinions to mount the hands without them scraping on the dial.

I am not sure if the hour hand will scratch the surface of the thick layer of paint? And could you hand write those tiny Chinese characters? I have a NOS plain white dial that I can give you or find another Zhongshan for you.

It seems that the 8 deers dial could be as rare as the double dragons. The Chairman of Beijing Watches&Cameras Collectors Assosiation already asked where I found it. :-) I am not a member of that organization yet.

[soviet]

Here I believe is the king of Zhongshan watch. :-! :gold

It has a textured dial with dark blue stripes. From a certain angle, the almost black stripes changs colour to dark purple. |> It is an earlier version with a non-shock proof movement.

I caught this today for RMB 120 which is about 3 times the price for a plain dial Zhogshan watch. Still I think it is well worth the money. :-)

[jsa]

Zhang,

There is a dealer at Baoguosi in the middle of the market on a corner stall. He has at least one Zhongshan with the dragons (I think :think:), or some other animal - I can't remember. It looked very similar to the pic you posted. It wasn't was my style, so I passed. That was around 1pm today - so it's probably still there. :-!

- Jon

[soviet]

Zhang,

There is a dealer at Baoguosi in the middle of the market on a corner stall. He has at least one Zhongshan with the dragons (I think :think:), or some other animal - I can't remember. It looked very similar to the pic you posted. It wasn't was my style, so I passed. That was around 1pm today - so it's probably still there. :-!

- Jon

Too bad I did not go there today,or I might have met you. :-) I think that is the guy I bought my dark bule dial Zhongshan last Thursday. He also has many foreign brand watches in good conditions. I bought a very clean Swiss Technos and a French Yema at the same time. His price is usually way high than others. <| He said Panjiayuan and Baoguosi are the two places in Beijing where old watches could be found. The market near the Big Bell is not a good place for such things.

[jsa]

Too bad I did not go there today,or I might have met you. :-) I think that is the guy I bought my dark bule dial Zhongshan last Thursday. He also has many foreign brand watches in good conditions. I bought a very clean Swiss Technos and a French Yema at the same time. His price is usually way high than others. <| He said Panjiayuan and Baoguosi are the two places in Beijing where old watches could be found. The market near the Big Bell is not a good place for such things.

I think we're talking about the same guy. He wears a green military-type coat. My friend really helped me negotiate with him - he started much higher than the final price. The other guy, towards the back of the market was much more reasonable. He gave me his business information including his phone #: 133-0116-8909. That's where I got the RMB10 watches.

Anyway, I don't leave until next Sunday night, so if you're thinking about going to the markets later in the week or particularily on the weekend, please let me know and perhaps we can meet up.

- Jon

[infinitime]

Hi guys, I recently acquired this ZhiJingShan watch, which uses the same movement as the ZhongShan, and is also made in Nanjing.... Do you think this is a secondary line for the same factory? Or is it another "economy" watch by an unrelated manufacturer in the same city?

The picture is from the seller, I will try to post a better picture when I get home tonight.

[Chascomm]

Hi guys, I recently acquired this ZhiJingShan watch, which uses the same movement as the ZhongShan, and is also made in Nanjing.... Do you think this is a secondary line for the same factory? Or is it another "economy" watch by an unrelated manufacturer in the same city?

The picture is from the seller, I will try to post a better picture when I get home tonight.SCORE!!

http://members.chello.hu/kozari.erzsebet/watch/banana.gif :-D http://members.chello.hu/kozari.erzsebet/watch/banana.gif

:gold

Are you sure it has the same movement? I thought this model was supposed to have the more primitive SN-1 movement :-S

I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures.

[soviet]

Hi guys, I recently acquired this ZhiJingShan watch, which uses the same movement as the ZhongShan, and is also made in Nanjing.... Do you think this is a secondary line for the same factory? Or is it another "economy" watch by an unrelated manufacturer in the same city?

The picture is from the seller, I will try to post a better picture when I get home tonight.

Hi Derek,

Beware of faked Zijinshan watches! Zijinshan is much less often seen than a Zhongshan and usually was sold 3-5 times of the price. It should have a 5 jewels (7 jewels?) non-shock proof movement that is easy to demage. Then someone will put a Zhongshan movement inside.

Here is a Genuine Zijinshan image FYI.

Take care,

Zhang

[infinitime]

Hi Guys, I think I may have the genuine item! Can you guys tell me more about the SN-1 movement?

[soviet]

Hi Guys, I think I may have the genuine item! Can you guys tell me more about the SN-1 movement?

Congratulations! I was worried you bought a Zhongshan movement Zijinshan. :-D This watch was made in late 1950's IIRC. I know little about it. Some said it is 3 jewels. others say it a 5 jewels or 7 jewels watch.

[soviet]

Congratulations! I was worried you bought a Zhongshan movement Zijinshan. :-D This watch was made in late 1950's IIRC. I know little about it. Some said it is 3 jewels. others say it a 5 jewels or 7 jewels watch.

Derek, Here is a story in Chinese about early Nanjing made watches. It says the Zijinshan is a copy of a Swiss Roamer watch. It was hand made in the begining in 1958 , and evolved from no jewels, to 5 jewels, and then 9 jewels. Zhongshan was a hot selling watch, and Nanjing traded with other provinces for steel, coal, and other hard to find materials with Zhongshan watches. :-! Some 2,000 NOS Zhongshan watches were sold a few years ago in Nanjing, and were grabbed by watch collectors....

It is interesting to note that both Madam Sun and Jiang Kai Shek also contributed to the making of Zhongshan watches when some Swiss made equipment was imported in the early 1960's when both sides shot each other over the Taiwan strait. O|

http://www.xici.net/b569487/d33041002.htm

[infinitime]

Hi Zhang,

Thank you for the link... My Chinese skills are a bit rusty, but a great read just the same. I am surprised about the design being derivative of the Roamer... Is Zhongshan still in business these days?

[soviet]

Hi Zhang,

Thank you for the link... My Chinese skills are a bit rusty, but a great read just the same. I am surprised about the design being derivative of the Roamer... Is Zhongshan still in business these days?

I heard that the factory was relocated a few years ago, and now it only produce some movements. NOS Zhongshan watches were sold out a few years ago. Early Zhongshan with Chinese logos are more collectable.

[Chascomm]

Derek, Here is a story in Chinese about early Nanjing made watches. It says the Zijinshan is a copy of a Swiss Roamer watch. It was hand made in the begining in 1958 , and evolved from no jewels, to 5 jewels, and then 9 jewels. Zhongshan was a hot selling watch, and Nanjing traded with other provinces for steel, coal, and other hard to find materials with Zhongshan watches. :-! Some 2,000 NOS Zhongshan watches were sold a few years ago in Nanjing, and were grabbed by watch collectors....Roamer? :-S Now that is surprising. I had no idea that they made pin-lever watches (which is what this must have started as if it had no jewels).

[soviet]

Roamer? :-S Now that is surprising. I had no idea that they made pin-lever watches (which is what this must have started as if it had no jewels).

I have no clue. Maybe the author did not know what he was talking about? Or the early Zijinshan looked like a famous Swiss big Roamer?

[Chascomm]

I have no clue. Maybe the author did not know what he was talking about? Or the early Zijinshan looked like a famous Swiss big Roamer?I took a look at all the Roamer movements on Roland Ranfft's database, but there was nothing like the Zijinshan/Zhongshan design. The only similarity is the size of some of the movements, and that some of them appear to be fairly rough mass-market items. I guess the 'big' Roamer would have been unusually large for a Swiss watch of its time.

[soviet]

Even more Zhongshan dials! I believe one can devote all his time to Zhongshan watches collecting. And the Dragon and Pheonix dial is still at large. |>

[soviet]

Hi Guys,

I did not give up hunting Zhongshan watches. I found a couple of new ones with different casebacks.:-! Here is a scan of some variations of Zhongshan casebacks plus a rare Zijinshan on the left of 1st row.

You may wonder why a RMB 30 watch has a solid S/S case? Because Zhongshan watches were so popular that they were always in short supply, and the steel factory that produced Stainless steel also had a limited capacity. So the two factories made a deal to trade steel with watches.:-D This deal left no Stainless steel for the much higher grade Diamond watches. So you find the highest grade Diamond movement with a poor chrome plated case.:-D And the lowest grade Zhongshan has a big solid S/S case.

Cheers,

Zhang

[soviet]

Here are two more NOS Zhongshan. One of them is a rare date version. Both are later shock proof version with embossed Zhongshan logos in stylish Chinese.:-! I paid RMB 100 for both. I think it is a good price for NOS Zhongshans.

[DaanMuller]

Hi, I like these nos Zhongshan watches. Is there a way to purchase these somewhere on the internet?

regards, Daan

[soviet]

Hi, I like these nos Zhongshan watches. Is there a way to purchase these somewhere on the internet?

regards, Daan

Sometimes these are offered online inside China. Otherwise they are extremely rare on international auction sites due to payment method problems. The only chance is that some tourists bought them and then re-sell them.

Zhang

[DaanMuller]

Sometimes these are offered online inside China. Otherwise they are extremely rare on international auction sites due to payment method problems. The only chance is that some tourists bought them and then re-sell them.

Zhang

Thanks. I will have my mother (she is a doctor of Chinese art history) have a look next time she is in China.

Daan

[soviet]

A nice collection of NOS Zhongshans from a Chinese collector.:-! The one with PINYIN logos don't look like Zhongshan. I asked him to post a close-up shot of that dial.

[Chascomm]

A nice collection of NOS Zhongshans from a Chinese collector.:-! The one with PINYIN logos don't look like Zhongshan. I asked him to post a close-up shot of that dial."Lo Junto"? What does that mean? :-S

The word "mechanical" suggests a recent date of manufacture. Even 10 years ago a mechanical watch would not have been such a novelty.

[soviet]

"Lo Junto"? What does that mean? :-S

The word "mechanical" suggests a recent date of manufacture. Even 10 years ago a mechanical watch would not have been such a novelty.

"Lo Junto" has no meaning in Chinese pinyin. What a stange brand name?! The last NOS Zhongshans were sold out just a few years ago, and was grabbed up by Zhongshan collectors. Today if these were still sold for RMB 30, that would equal to about RMB 3 in the old days. Besides today's average salary is about RMB 2000-3000, that was about 5-6 times more than that in the 1970's.

[soviet]

Never ending Zhongshan dials.O| Here is a new one I have never seen before.It is similar to the one in another guy's collection, but it has Roman numbers, and has a somewhat more elegant case. It is an all S/S, shock proof version.|> I paid RMB 50 for it.

[mxnm2006]

Never ending Zhongshan dials.O| Here is a new one I have never seen before.It is similar to the one in another guy's collection, but it has Roman numbers, and has a somewhat more elegant case. It is an all S/S, shock proof version.|> I paid RMB 50 for it.

Soviet,
It is a nice watch with excellent price. Sometimes I think it is a crime that a fine piece of watch like that would only cost the same as a cup of Latte with a Danish on the side at Starbucks.

I am just curious, are you physcially living in China? If not, how do you manage to acquire a watch like that?


Cheers,
Ming

[soviet]

Soviet,
It is a nice watch with excellent price. Sometimes I think it is a crime that a fine piece of watch like that would only cost the same as a cup of Latte with a Danish on the side at Starbucks.

I am just curious, are you physcially living in China? If not, how do you manage to acquire a watch like that?


Cheers,
Ming

Hi Ming,

You are right. Right now, I think, is the best time to collect these vintage Chinese watches. RMB 50 could only buy a meal for a person in a restaurant in Beijing. But Zhongshan watches could also cost RMB 200-300, and Zijinshan 5 jewels could cost RMB 700 sometimes.

I am living in Beijing, and there are two places not too far away from where I live that sell these watches. I have become a regular visitor of these places.:-)

Kind Regards

Zhang

[mxnm2006]

Hi Ming,

You are right. Right now, I think, is the best time to collect these vintage Chinese watches. RMB 50 could only buy a meal for a person in a restaurant in Beijing. But Zhongshan watches could also cost RMB 200-300, and Zijinshan 5 jewels could cost RMB 700 sometimes.

I am living in Beijing, and there are two places not too far away from where I live that sell these watches. I have become a regular visitor of these places.:-)

Kind Regards

Zhang

Zhang,
I always try to visit China, where my parents are from.
I believe for a person, who loves mechanical watches, especially chinese watches, cities like Beijin, Shanhi,...etc can be just like candy stores to kids.

Enjoy you life there. I envy you a lot.

Ming

[soviet]

A Chinese collector showed off his Zijinshan and Zhongshan collection! There are 31 different dials for Zhongshan alone, and there are still some missing.

I never thought there could be so many Zijinshan dials, but he has many of them.:-! I asked if he has the rare double dragons dial of Zhongshan, and I am waiting for his reply.:-p

[soviet]

Just found another Zhongshan with a dial I never saw before. This one has a gold tone S/S case, and looks quite nice, too.|>

[soviet]

Roamer? :-S Now that is surprising. I had no idea that they made pin-lever watches (which is what this must have started as if it had no jewels).

Maybe Roamer also had many variations of dials. Here is one with a nice dial. Also another double pheonix dial with the pheonix heads upwards. It has a very uncommon caseback,too.|>

[soviet]

FYI, Nanjing Watch factory had a capacity of producing 2.5 million watches a year, but in 2003 they only produced 800,000 Zhongshan watches before the relocation, and only 8% were sold on domestic market. The rest were exported to mid-east, Russia, African countries. In 2004, about 600,000 Zhongshan watches were made. Still, NOS watches are not easy to find. These may be in the hands of Zhongshan collectors.

[soviet]

Another distinctive Zhongshan dial, 6 lovely pandas just when I thought I have seen almost every Zhongshan dial.:-! This is an earlier Zhongshan with a fatter case, and the dial is fixed to the movement by two tiny screws.

The two dragons Zhongshan is still at large.

[Chascomm]

Another distinctive Zhongshan dial, 6 lovely pandas just when I thought I have seen almost every Zhongshan dial.:-! This is an earlier Zhongshan with a fatter case, and the dial is fixed to the movement by two tiny screws.

The two dragons Zhongshan is still at large.6 pandas! So that's what it is! O| All this time I had not been able to work out what that design was on my sadly faded Zhongshan.

[soviet]

6 pandas! So that's what it is! O| All this time I had not been able to work out what that design was on my sadly faded Zhongshan.
A good surprise! You have a 6 pandas Zhongshan? Congratulations!:-D I thought I have the rarest Zhongshan. We have the only two 6 pandas ever surfaced.:gold

[bacr]

Zhongshan

[bacr]

Zhongshan;-) ;-) 29282

29283

[bacr]

Zhongshan;-)

[soviet]

Hello bacr,

You have a very impressive Zhongshan collection there!:-! I wonder if you have the elusive double dragons dial Zhongshan?

[soviet]

Hello bacr,

You have a very impressive Zhongshan collection there!:-! I wonder if you have the elusive double dragons dial Zhongshan?

I am very happy with my recent catch of the double dragons dial Zhongshan.Today, I caught another one with a dial I never saw before, and another clean 6 pandas.:-d |>

[Chascomm]

I am very happy with my recent catch of the double dragons dial Zhongshan.Today, I caught another one with a dial I never saw before, and another clean 6 pandas.:-d |>That new one is interesting. Do you think it might be a chrysanthemum flower?

Every time I wear my 6 pandas, I think I should try to restore the dial, but I'm afraid of damaging it o|

[soviet]

That new one is interesting. Do you think it might be a chrysanthemum flower?

Every time I wear my 6 pandas, I think I should try to restore the dial, but I'm afraid of damaging it o|

How bad is the condition of the dial? I can give you a NOS plain dial if you wish to replace it. I just noted that my 2 panda dials are not exactly the same. They all have 6 pandas, but located at different positions. Otherwise , I will let you have one of them.:-)
I have never worn a Zhongshan because I heard that they have an accuracy of +,- 90s/day.o|

The new dial is interesting, but I am not sure what kind of flower it is. I think it is expensive to make dies with such intricate patterns.

[soviet]

...I just noted that my 2 panda dials are not exactly the same. They all have 6 pandas, but located at different positions. Otherwise , I will let you have one of them.:-)
.....

A the two double pheonix head-down dials are not exactly the same either. One has Fang Zhen(shock proof) printed at the bottom. The two date Zhongshan have different S/S cases.

[soviet]

Hi,

Just caught a man size 17 jewels Zhongshan. 17 jewels Zhongshan has a Nanjing made movement of unique design among 1970-80's Chinese movements, and they are less often seen than their 9 jewels brothers. I have two mid-size 17 j Zhongshan, so this is a new item to my Zhongshan collection.:-) This 17 jewels movement should have a higher grade than the poor national 4th grade 9 jewels one.

Cheers,

Zhang

[Chascomm]

Hi,

Just caught a man size 17 jewels Zhongshan. 17 jewels Zhongshan has a Nanjing made movement of unique design among 1970-80's Chinese movements, and they are less often seen than their 9 jewels brothers. I have two mid-size 17 j Zhongshan, so this is a new item to my Zhongshan collection.:-) This 17 jewels movement should have a higher grade than the poor national 4th grade 9 jewels one.

Cheers,

ZhangNice catch! :-!

I remember you posted a picture of this movement. IIRC the 9 jewel SN-2 was made until very recently. Do you know when this 17 jewel watch was made?

[soviet]

Nice catch! :-!

I remember you posted a picture of this movement. IIRC the 9 jewel SN-2 was made until very recently. Do you know when this 17 jewel watch was made?

Sorry, so far I have no information about it. It appears still a lower grade movement than Shanghai 7120's. It has a standard caseback that can be opened with a 7120 caseback opener. It is a "san fang",and "quan gang" watch though. A quiz for you.;-)

[Chascomm]

Sorry, so far I have no information about it. It appears still a lower grade movement than Shanghai 7120's. It has a standard caseback that can be opened with a 7120 caseback opener. It is a "san fang",and "quan gang" watch though. A quiz for you.;-):think: All steel case... ...:think: ... "san fang"? ... No, you got me there. Due to my total lack of Chinese and the limitations of unaccented Pinyin, the best I can come up with is "3 proof" :-s

[soviet]

:think: All steel case... ...:think: ... "san.... the best I can come up with is "3 proof" :-s

Exactly.:-! :gold

[Chascomm]

Exactly.:-! :goldSo it's fangzhen, fangshui and fangci? That sounds like a high quality watch |>

[soviet]

So it's fangzhen, fangshui and fangci? That sounds like a high quality watch |>

Yes, and with another important feature, Quangang(S/S case), it beats many 50's Swiss watch hands down.|>

[soviet]

Hi,

Here is a morning catch, and IMO a very rare one.|> This is a lady Zhongshan with a 16 jewels XIMA (jeweled lever)movement.:-d I have seen dozens of Zhongshan watches, and this is the 1st time I saw a lady Zhongshan with a new type of movement. The dial is in bad shape, but the movement is fine. It is about the same size as a Shaghai SS5.

Cheers,

Zhang

[joelchan]

Hi,

Here is a morning catch, and IMO a very rare one.|> This is a lady Zhongshan with a 16 jewels XIMA (jeweled lever)movement.:-d I have seen dozens of Zhongshan watches, and this is the 1st time I saw a lady Zhongshan with a new type of movement. The dial is in bad shape, but the movement is fine. It is about the same size as a Shaghai SS5.

Cheers,

Zhang

A very nice catch:-! . This is the firt time I know, they have ladies size watches. And the case back is very rare, especially "Xima" and old form of "Zuan" writing.:-)

[soviet]

A very nice catch:-! . This is the firt time I know, they have ladies size watches. And the case back is very rare, especially "Xima" and old form of "Zuan" writing.:-)


According to a Chinese collector, I may have the rarest golden dial, but unfortunately, it is worn and dirty.<| This lady Zhongshan seems a rare watch not only in Beijing area.

[soviet]

According to a Chinese collector, I may have the rarest golden dial, but unfortunately, it is worn and dirty.<| This lady Zhongshan seems a rare watch not only in Beijing area.

Well, today I searched a dealer's junk pile of at least 700-800 lady watches, and only found one more Zhongshan lady watch with a different dial. The dial with a big Z should be less often seen.