Identifying a 19th century english movement

[Mary]

Hi !
I have a english pocket watch but it seems that the movement is not the original one (the numbers on the movement and on the inner part of the case are different). The hallmarks on the cover are then of no use identifying when the movement has been made..
The hallmarks are Sterling silver - Chester - 1852
On the movement is written "J.J. Jackson Nottingham"

Here are some pictures:
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3086.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3088.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3095.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3091.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3092.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3097.JPG

[Erik_H]

Loomes mentions a J.J. Jackson in Hockley (Notts) being active in 1864. Hockley is in Nottingham.

[Ray MacDonald]

I wouldn't expect the same number on the case and on the movement since they are rarely made by the same firm.
The hallmarks are usually the only way to identify an English watch as the serial number records don't exist any more.
Here the movement seems to be consistent with the hallmarks. It's not an 1850s movement in an 1810s case at least.

[constantin-o-politan]

Hi !
I have a english pocket watch but it seems that the movement is not the original one (the numbers on the movement and on the inner part of the case are different). The hallmarks on the cover are then of no use identifying when the movement has been made..
The hallmarks are Sterling silver - Chester - 1852
On the movement is written "J.J. Jackson Nottingham"

Here are some pictures:
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3086.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3088.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3095.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3091.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3092.JPG
http://sesidhbana.free.fr/tmp/DSCF3097.JPG
Hello Mary,

Your English pocket watch housed in a silver case which bears hallmarks for Chester, date letter O for 1852 and maker's initials possibly for Ralph Samuel who worked at 54 Wood Street, Liverpool between 1838-58.
My best,
Constantin

[radger]

I wouldn't expect the same number on the case and on the movement since they are rarely made by the same firm.
The hallmarks are usually the only way to identify an English watch as the serial number records don't exist any more.
Here the movement seems to be consistent with the hallmarks. It's not an 1850s movement in an 1810s case at least.

Ray, I have a few English levers and the serial numbers on the case do
match that of the movement regardless of who made the case.
I would think that once a watchmaker had fitted his movement
to the 'bought in case' then he would number the case to match.

[Ray MacDonald]

The dial and the movement obviously match. The case is pierced at the right spot for the key to wind the movement. The numbers on the case don't look anything like a movement number to me. Also the movement looks like it's from the appropriate time period. We'll never know for sure but it doesn't look like a Frankenwatch to me.

[Mary]

I didn't expect so much information ! Thanks to all of you !
So I guess that I can only say that the case and the movement are coherent and from the 1850's - 1860's period ?

[constantin-o-politan]

I didn't expect so much information ! Thanks to all of you !
So I guess that I can only say that the case and the movement are coherent and from the 1850's - 1860's period ?
Movement and the case look matching, however, one might expect the serial numbers are repeated on the case, but on your "case" they are both different, showing that the movement is currently housed into a case, once was housing another movement whose serials stamped over it. I think this does not make your watch a franken

best wishes,
constantin

[Roland Ranfft]

Hi Mary,

don't worry about the case number differing from the movement number.
Cases were manually made, and almost no parts were interchangable.
Therefore all parts of the case got the same number (on small parts only
the last digits), simply to hold fitting parts together.

Only if cases and movements were made by the same company, it happens
now and then that movement and case have matching numbers. But even in
this case, the numbers differ often, because cases were manufactured
separately, and combined with the movements after demand of the sellers.

Regards, Roland Ranfft