Difficulties Obtaining Repairs - USA

[SR Warner]

I am experiencing an unexpected and dissappointing degree of difficulty in having my De Luca repaired. The USA service center refuses to repair the watch unless I consent to a rather significant (and costly) service. The watch was reconditioned by Zenith 4 years ago and kept precise time - it would not manually wind. Calls to the service center yield no satisfaction; e-mail messages to Zenith's Corporate Office go unanswered. I believe their actions of withholding repair parts unless customers pay for undesired services is unethical if not illegal. In either case, it certainly diminishes the Zenith ownership experience and makes me question continued patronage. Has anyone else experienced the same frustrating and disappointing treatment?

[RonH]

You Bet! Your description is exactly what I'm in the middle of right now. After discovering that no watchmaker is allowed to buy Zenith parts unless Zenith-certified and some bad experience with one Z-certified guy, I went on to discover that the substantial repair needed on my limited-edition El Primero Rose Gold has to be handled through bailey Banks and Biddle and go to Switzerland. Estimate was for complete teardown and rebuild for $550 - take it or leave it - no negociation possible. My choice was have it returned, still in need of service and never get it fixed, or to comply with their estimate (extortion?) So I am having them fix it for $550.

I have driven BMWs for years and NEVER take them to anyone for service because repairs are so expensive. But of course, I know how to work on BMWs. A complicated watch is a different matter.

My philosophy is if I want a collectible with moving parts, it's going to cost me. Any of us could wear a Fossil or Timex for $15.

So I'll bear it for now, but this repair better be done right and last a long time.

What is a De Luca???

Zenith does not answer e-mails within any reasonable timeframe. A few years ago, I e-mailed them and they responded about 4 months later - with apologies for the delay!!!

Ron Hebden
Mount Airy, MD

[D N Ravenna]

Hi Folks,
I am going to defend Zenith, not because I am the moderator of this fine little forum, but because I have owned mechanical watches for years. By sharing perhaps you can understand that what we are seeing is the norm, not the exception.


Spare parts -- When Zenith emerged in the US market, they started to behave like other Swiss watch makers. They stopped selling spare parts to watch makers and kept them in house. Rolex has done this for years, as has many others like Omega, UN, etc. Being a risk manager, I imagine this gives them some degree of control over repairs which they did not have before. I would note that some spare parts are available for Rolex, Omega, IWC, and so on, but they are for truly vintage watches, not currrent or near current makes. These stocks are limited as well.
Switzerland -- Rolex and Omega, and to some degree IWC and UN can affect minor type repairs in the US due to their support staff. Rolex is the best at repairs in the US, although last I heard, chronograph repairs still had to go to Switzerland. But that was a year ago or so, so that could have changed. My Omega Broadarrow needed repair of the chronograph system, and it went straight to Switzerland from their Lancaster, PA repair center. When I had my IWC regulated, my jeweler stated that I should hope it does not need to go to Switzerland as it would take an extra six months. Fortunately, it did not need to take that route.
Servicing when you do not think it needs it -- That is a standard response by several watch makers. For instance, my UN 1846 Marine chronometer had a defect. Believe it or not, the hour hand was not set properly. That is to say, it lagged by almost 10 minutes. The original owner claimed he never noticed, right. So I called UN's Florida service center and they said it had to be serviced (watch was 1.5 years old as in the warranty had not expired!). Fortunately, they were in the US so the language was not a barrier. After several minutes of heated discussion, we arrived at an "agreement." They agreed to look at the watch, and if it needed servicing in their opinion, they would let me know. So if they thought the watch needed servicing, I would have to pay them that price prior to setting the hands straight like it should have been before it left the factory. Once again, I was fortunate in that they decided that it did not need servicing as I would have never sold it to buy the UN 1846 Marine Chronograph (which oddly enough, had its own issues).
Pricing -- It varies all over the board. $550 for a chronograph service is not bad compared to what Rolex charges for a simple automatic. Having cleaned and repaired enough watches in my time, I think the Zenith pricing is far more realistic than the Rolex pricing. I have done many of watches in less than a day. OTOH, I am not WOSTEP trained, so who am I to talk? :-DI would also you ask to consider this. When a watch needs a relatively "minor" repair such as the manual winding system, it almost always has to be completely disassembled. The movement has to be removed from the case. The dial and hands have to be removed, as well as the rotor assembly. If the problem is in the keyless works or the rotor assembly, that is all the disassembly that is needed. If not, more of the watch has to be taken apart.

Once apart, it is criminal IMO to just put it back together again without taking additional steps. The removed parts need to be cleaned of their existing lubricant, reassembled, and relubricated. And that is perhaps why you get your quote for servicing. You may want to ask to get a quote on repairs and see if they add the servicing once they get the watch. It will take more time, buy it may give you more peace of mind as well.

I hope this helps explain some of what you are seeing out there.

Warmest regards,
:-!

Dan

[AMBIORIX]

Hello Guys,
First of all,i personaly think, the actual management is at the base of all(and not only at zenith),to make a simple comparison,i paid 150 euro for an overhaul on my Seamaster, so i personaly find 500 on a elite a "bit" to much.
Ok,the mouvement in "micro",but in essence, watchmaking is a mather of experience( NOT nuclear sience!!),it's mechanical, so logical, try working on something containing hydraulics, pneumatics and electronics, and you'll know what i mean.
And furthermore, i think the people managing these companies forget it's the customer(and not everyone is millionair) who pays their salaries, and that technical support is there to pursuade the client to buy their product again, not to make gain.
But, thenagain, who am i?
Grzt, Dom

[Hartmut Richter]

I have to back up Dan in what he said about Zenith, parts and servicing - not releasing parts has been done for years by other makers and if you want a brand which every corner shop watchmaker can service, chose something generic with ETA movement! The other thing is that it is well known in insider circles that the watch industry is facing a second crisis: that of too few specialist staff. During the quartz crisis, many watchmakers were made redundant and went off to do other things and after them, too few people entered the field - right up till today. Expert watchmakers are now highly sought by the big companies. So, small errors such as hands badly set creep in more easily than in the old days. This is pretty bad since watches of that type are now luxury objects, cost more and their owners are therefore prepared to put up with less than in the old days when mechanical watches were everyday objects that people just wore to tell them the time. In view of all that, the major watch companies want to control the service of their watches themselves and, much as it may cost, I can understand that.

Hartmut Richter

[D N Ravenna]

stating what I did not about the lack of watchmakers out there. With the exception of Rolex, most of the companies have not done a lot with hiring/training. It does make a difference on pricing.

Dan

[Mark_NJ]

I know how you feel but Dan has made some very valid points. I too had a DeLuca that I brought into have serviced at the service center in Springfield, NJ (USA). I had a problem with the stem and they also told me it would require a full service for approximately the same price you quoted. They were nice enough to have one of the watchmakers get on the phone with me and explain the whole process from disassembly to reassembly and said, almost verbatin, what Dan did about doing a full service while it was apart, especially since the watch's service history was unknown. I agreed to the service and everything turned out fine, they did a great job.

My only issue was that I wanted to have the bezel replaced at the time because there was a ding in it and Zenith did not have any replacement bezels in stock anywhere in the world! This came directly from Switzerland. I sold the watch because I did not want to own something I could not fix in the future and it made me think what else might not be repairable in the future.

[D N Ravenna]

It may be hard/impossible to repair, but for the time you own it, it is that much cooler!

Dan

[SR Warner]

Kindest regards to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts. I have since given Zenith permission to proceed with the repairs. I don't quite buy in to the "elite" or priviledge mindset; I guess my primary objection is the fact they seem to exploit the fact you have few altnatives. Many valid points of view and insightful comments were offered. I too am considering liquidating, and recently saw a black dial De Luca sold for $3400 on German E-bay so that may be the answer. Thanks to all who responded. - SRW