The BUSA nightmare continues

[fordzilla]

The saga continues. A couple of months ago, my watch began keeping erratic time, usually gaining 1-2 seconds/day, then suddenly gaining 24 seconds another day, then maybe 4 the next.
I sent it back again, and it came back a couple weeks later. I began keeping a log, with the watch gaining 6 seconds the first day, 4 the next, then 8, 22, then 9, then 8, so on and so forth. (This is from memory, I don't have the log in front of me, but this is very close, including the 22 second jump, but will post the exact numbers when I get back to my computer)
Now, here's the kicker: I contacted BUSA again about the erratic timing, and was told to call and speak with a technician before returning the watch again.
I called, and was given an explanation that the timing would vary according to what arm position I wore the watch throughout the day, etc. (I wear it 24/7)
I protested, explaining that until a couple of months ago, my watch was "x" number of seconds fast, but consistent from day to day without exception. I also pointed out that I'd be willing to accept such an explanation for a second or two variance, but NOT 22 or 24 second jumps. I was given a lengthy explanation about how sophisticated the balance wheel was, etc. He told me I could not check the accuracy day by day, but should check it once a week to see "how things balance out" and that I should give it a month before considering returning it. The watchmaker at my local AD said he could see the watch movement "settling" by a few seconds, but NOT 22-24 secs.
What do you folks think about this explanation? Frankly, I see it as a lot of nonsense.

[TxKarateDude]

Completely unacceptible to me. I would insist that BUSA fix it and keep going up the chain of command until I got satisfaction. If a company wants good a reputation, then the customer is always right. End of story. Don't settle for anything less imho.

[fordzilla]

Yeah, I've insisted that they fix it 6 times now. They're not concerned.

[RJRJRJ]

22 sec in a day is way too fast, but I do agree that you should time it over the course of a couple of weeks at least and see what it averages out to.

[fordzilla]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but COSC certification is dependant upon a watch losing no more than 4 secs/day, or gaining no more than 6 sec/day, right?
I never read the word "average" in there.

[cnmark]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but COSC certification is dependant upon a watch losing no more than 4 secs/day, or gaining no more than 6 sec/day, right?
I never read the word "average" in there.

Right about the numbers, but COSC does have the word "average" in the specs - below are the COSC specs for mechanical movements, from the COSC website. The first column applies, as the movement diameter is larger than 20mm:

http://www.cosc.ch/images/TableauMecaniqueEn.jpg

A "jump" in daily rate from +8 one day to +22 the other day (14 sec difference) alone is unacceptable - see above. Timing varies with position, but the variation itself must remain within specs.

Makes me doubt the guy you spoke to was really a technician...

COSC about chronometers:
http://www.cosc.ch/chronometre.php?lang=en

[fordzilla]

I got the distinct impression he just wanted to make me go away.
Anyway, here's the actual timing as I've logged it since 091809:
Day 1, +6 secs,
Day 2, +7,
Day 3, +4,
Day 4, +8,
Day 5 +22,
Day 6, +9,
Day 7 +8,
Day 8 +9,
Day 9, +9,
Day 10, +6,
Day 11, +8
Day 12, -7.

[fstshrk]

Send it back, if they don't take it back. Send it to Jack @ IWW to get it regulated. There is clearly something a miss.

[fordzilla]

Oh, they'll take it back. Whether or not it comes back working is the gamble.
With the timing so erratic, I feel it needs more than just regulation. Again, until a couple of months ago, the watch was usually not properly regulated, but always consistently fast from day to day.

[cnmark]

It's too fast (by average alone) and has 2 jumps in daily variation- clearly a reason to send it back for another attempt. Send them your data above with the watch, so they see that there's something that happens over several days.

And, just out of curiosity, as you say it started suddenly, with good accuracy before:
Is there any chance that somebody has dropped it to the floor? Children in the house?
Or that there was something different on the 2 days (day 5, Day 12) with extreme rate jumps?

[fordzilla]

I wear it 24/7

[SnapIT]

What is your line of work?

[fordzilla]

Law enforcement.

[Broker]

Law enforcement.

On the street or desk?

[fordzilla]

Both.

[txturbo]

Your choice is:

1. Send it back. Be very clear on what you want.. Ask them to put a new movement in it, send it through QA twice and have a different watch maker do the work. After the number of times you have sent it in having them replace the movement is not unreasonable.

2. Send it elsewhere..

3. Live with it.

4. Sell it

[fordzilla]

I've told them before that I want a new watch, or a new movement; they had no response to that whatsoever. I've told them to keep it until its right- to no avail. A few attempts ago, I received a call from a technician who gave me his "personal guarantee" that the watch would be adjusted right. (this happened 2 times)

[drgreenthumb]

I got the distinct impression he just wanted to make me go away.
Anyway, here's the actual timing as I've logged it since 091809:
Day 1, +6 secs,
Day 2, +7,
Day 3, +4,
Day 4, +8,
Day 5 +22,
Day 6, +9,
Day 7 +8,
Day 8 +9,
Day 9, +9,
Day 10, +6,
Day 11, +8
Day 12, -7.

You are averaging ~7-8". But the 22" plus the -14" (-7" on Day 12 minus the avg. of ~7-8") is a huge standard deviation!

I would be furious too.

Keep all your repair records and paper trail and fax a letter to the CEO of Breitling USA with repair records and time keeping log after the repair was made. I understand that your disapointed but be diplomatic. They should declare your watch a lemon and issue you a new one. Thats the only resolution IMO.

[SnapIT]

What sort of EMI producing systems do you work with?

The Day 5 figure of +22 seconds represents a -0.0502 of one degree of arc, shortening, of the balance wheel rotation. Or put another way, in a day the balance wheel does 691200 rotations. For each one of those rotations on average it rotated 0.0502 of a degree less then required thus, for you, time passed more quickly. IE: the watch gained 14 seconds more during the day then expected.

[termite]

I feel your pain; I had a GP Seahawk II that did the exact same thing but w/ even greater swings. It went back to the dealer three times w/ no noticeable improvement. I finally told them to keep it and bought something else. That being said however, I would send it back to BUSA. The guy that you finally spoke w/, Peter Purchert, is not just a technician but rather head of BUSA's technical department. He sheparded the restoration of my military frequency Emergency after I got about a month of misinformation from one of the 'phone techs'...he corrected the bad info, sent the watch to Switzerland, and kept in close touch w/ me. All-in-all, he did a great job and the E came back in museum quality...just one of the reasons that I have owned dozens of Breitlings...if Peter said that he would get it right, I would believe him...

[gtopaul]

"Who would want a souless quartz? "

Starting to look pretty good now I bet.;-)

[fordzilla]

The guy that you finally spoke w/, Peter Purchert, is not just a technician but rather head of BUSA's technical department... if Peter said that he would get it right, I would believe him...

He called me on the phone and gave me his personal guarantee twice...

[fordzilla]

Can't delete.

[fordzilla]

"Who would want a souless quartz? "

Starting to look pretty good now I bet.;-)

No, a mechanical that works as intended would be fine.

[O2AFAC67]

Gentlemen, I invite you go back in time 2 and 2/3 years and read this previouly closed thread in its entirety...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=48969

After that, go back just seven months and read this closed thread as well...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=216749

Please note that "Fordzilla" and "Paladin" are one and the same. You may want to note the avatar and then search all prior posts of both screen names. (Remember Richard Boone in the late 50's, early 60's American TV series "Have Gun - Will Travel" ? ) As you read through those threads, pay particular attention to post #28 in the first thread, a post written on Valentine day, 2007.

After rehashing this almost three year old story, I have come to the conclusion that those of us who continue to respond to this litany of anger, frustration and pathos are simply engaged in the business of troll feeding. The last sentence in the above referenced post #28 pretty much says it all at least from my perspective. Be advised that this old horse has been ridden way too long and will not be ridden any further.
Best,
Ron