WUSSE - Design (Part 2) - The Movement

[Uwe W.]

We now move on to the nerve center and heartbeat of the WUSSE project, the tiny mechanical miracle called the movement. This component of the watch will not only decide how it is used, but the functions it will perform. If you enjoy interacting with a timepiece you will probably lean towards a manual or handwind movement. Others might want a minimum of fuss and will prefer an automatic movement to drive the watch.

There are options to consider as well. Do you want a day or date feature? Is a hack option (the second hand stops when the time is set) important to you? What do you look for in a second hand; a big sweeping pointer or a small rotating indicator?

Or since this is a Special Edition, maybe you’re feeling bold. How about something less common like a GMT or 24 hour watch?

As with all WUSSE discussion threads, only those who are on either the Reserve or Waiting List may comment and vote in this thread. If you wish to be put on the waiting list, please read the WUSSE - General Information thread first before adding your request to the WUSSE – Reserve List thread.

Below is a list of movements that we have to choose from. Please understand that the list is subject to change based on the availability of parts. Voting for the WUSSE movement will start Friday Nov. 6th at 21:00 (EST) and end Sunday Nov. 8th at 23:59 (EST). If you will not be able to vote during that time you can also Uwe W. ahead of time with your choice.

The Movements:


A. Unitas 6497
Manual wind, small seconds at 9 o'clock (or at 3 o’clock with crown at 9 o’clock)
http://www.vorg.com/watches/Unitas6497.JPG


B. Unitas 6498
Manual wind, small seconds at 6 o'clock (or at 12 o’clock with crown at 9 o’clock)
http://www.vorg.com/watches/Unitas6497.JPG


C. ETA 2801-2
Manual wind, center seconds, non-hacking
http://www.vorg.com/watches/ETA2801.JPG


D. ETA 2824-2
Automatic, center seconds, date optional, hacking optional
http://www.vorg.com/watches/ETA2824.JPG


E. ETA 2836-2
Automatic, center seconds, day and date optional, hacking optional
http://www.vorg.com/watches/ETA2836.JPG


F. ETA 2893-2
Automatic, center seconds, GMT (or 24hr hand), date optional, hacking optional
http://www.vorg.com/watches/ETA2893.JPG


G. ETA 2897
Automatic, center seconds, date optional, power reserve indicator
http://www.vorg.com/watches/ETA2897.JPG



As an aid to help you decide on a movement we’ve put together a flow chart using the various available options:
http://www.vorg.com/watches/movement chart.JPG

[harrchen]

If possible could you also add in movement size (in lignes or mm) to the original post? This might be important for thinking about possible display backs later. Thanks.

[harrchen]

I am going to put in a big push for option G with the power reserve indicator. None of my watches currently have this neat and useful complication.

[simonjr]

As much as I love manual wind watches, I think Option F and G offers something which we have yet to see.. A GMT or Power Reserve will be most interesting..

[simonjr]

I also prefer center seconds on the watch..

[rukrem]

E. ETA 2836-2
Automatic, Center seconds, Day, Date (however in an alt. color), & hacking or . . .

F. ETA 2893-2
Automatic, Center Seconds, GMT, Date & Hacking.

IMHO -The above alternatives give the most 'feature-rich qualities' - that increase the intrinsic value of the time-piece. The other movements lack in sophistication and function -do not inspire.

[Uwe W.]

If possible could you also add in movement size (in lignes or mm) to the original post? This might be important for thinking about possible display backs later. Thanks.

Triton will correct me if I'm wrong, but I fairly sure all the ETA movements are 11.5''' (25.6mm) while the two Unitas (yes, yes... they're also ETA) are 16.5''' (36.6mm).

[Uwe W.]

My big preference is for a 24 hour movement. That is, the GMT ETA 2897 that has been converted to a 24 hour purist (the GMT hand is removed and the hour hand is placed on its cannon).

For those of you who have never owned a 24 hour watch, the hour hand only moves around the dial once a day as opposed to twice for most watches. There are also 24 indices instead of 12 for the hours. :-!

There are some really cool designs for 24 hour watches and you can get quite creative with the dials, often they're shaded between AM and PM hours or daylight and nighttime hours.

[rosenkruez]

Power reserve indicator!! Finally!!

[H.Solo]

(E) Day-Date option with the ETA 2836-2 for me... :-!

or perhaps the (G) Power Reserve Indicator, don't have one of those in my collection :think:

Some great features to consider!

[vnf68]

Excuse me, I want to know what case we chosen.

[littlenick]

Excuse me, I want to know what case we chosen.

I would like to know that as well before I make up my mind about the movement - I think an automatic GMT would suit the Triton non-diver very well but for a NavB a manual movement would be the first choice.

[simonjr]

By the way Uwe, there's a small error in the flow chart.. the movement for the GMT should be ETA 2893-2..

[blighter]

Would it be possible to indicate also bps information and a rough idea of the price point for each? (for those of us who are not familiar with movement specs and pricing as others). I suppose the information can be found but it would be handy to have it in one place here and available for all of us...?

[blighter]

Sorry, I think I missed the final results for the case choice. Anyone could throw it in please?

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

I believe Krille untied the vote by changing his mind. So, according to my math, the final results are:

- Option B (Nav.B-Uhr II) - 25 votes
- Option E (Triton (Fixed)) - 23 votes

So, unless an executive decision is made by the Project Managers otherwise, the "winner" is Nav.B-Uhr II.
I'm sure they will update the other threads with the final results soon. :-)

Regarding the movements, i believe some more information could be usefull for each movement. Price range would be an important information, because the movement will probably by the part with more influence in the final price of the watch. Size is also important. I don't know if all these movements listed "fit" in the case that has won the 1st voting pole (can movements be made bigger or smaller depending of the watches case size? ).
I know that having a watch with an ETA movement is probably more "attractive", but why don't we add some non-ETA movements, like Sellita and the Japanese Miyota movements (Citizen and Seiko come to mind)... some of these non-ETA movements could make the final price lower, without reducing the final quality of the watch. These are just suggestions :-)
A question to the experts here... from the above list, are the UNITAS the only ones capable of having the crown at 9 o'clock? I ask this because i would love to have a "lefty" watch and this project could be it... but i also rather have an automatic than a handwound watch! :-D
From the movements listed, i believe the ETA 2893-2 GMT would make a very unique watch.

[Icestorm]

There is one thing you guys should bear in mind: if we select a non-unitas movement, the movement will be too small for a display back to look good, as the watch case will be at least 44mm and dwarf the size of the movement. This is also why Steinhart currently do not offer display backs for the 2801 or any of the automatic movements.

In terms of expense, going by Ofrei, the cheapest movement listed there is the ETA 2801 handwound, followed by the 2824. The Unitas movements and the 2836 are slightly more expensive than that, and the 2892/3 are the most expensive, at more than $40 more than the Unitas and 2836. No idea what the price of a 2897 is, I suspect it is at least as expensive as a 2893 though. The 2892/3 movements hold their own against rolex 3135 calibres from a couple of reviews that I've read though, definitely more robust and more quality than the 2824's.


I am also waiting for the voting of the case to be decided. Here's hoping Nav B Uhr II wins!

[teg33]

Excuse me, I want to know what case we chosen.
yup, we need to know it before decide on the movement. :-)

[the_old_curmudgeon]

Would it be possible to indicate also bps information and a rough idea of the price point for each? (for those of us who are not familiar with movement specs and pricing as others). I suppose the information can be found but it would be handy to have it in one place here and available for all of us...?

All of these movements are 28,800 A/h with the exception of the 2 Unitas movements which are 21,600 A/h.

These movements are of varying thicknesses as well so the actual case selection may also have some bearing as to which movements might be most suitable. The 2801 I believe is the thinnest followed by the 2893 with the 2897 the thickest. If I remember correctly most of these movements would be about the same price (within +/- $25 US or so) with the exception of the 2893 which would be quite a bit more expensive but if I'm off the mark I'm sure someone will happily correct me :-)

[Porson]

Hi!

I believe Krille untied the vote by changing his mind. So, according to my math, the final results are:

- Option B (Nav.B-Uhr II) - 25 votes
- Option E (Triton (Fixed)) - 23 votes

So, unless an executive decision is made by the Project Managers otherwise, the "winner" is Nav.B-Uhr II.
I'm sure they will update the other threads with the final results soon. :-)

Regarding the movements, i believe some more information could be usefull for each movement. Price range would be an important information, because the movement will probably by the part with more influence in the final price of the watch. Size is also important. I don't know if all these movements listed "fit" in the case that has won the 1st voting pole (can movements be made bigger or smaller depending of the watches case size? ).
I know that having a watch with an ETA movement is probably more "attractive", but why don't we add some non-ETA movements, like Sellita and the Japanese Miyota movements (Citizen and Seiko come to mind)... some of these non-ETA movements could make the final price lower, without reducing the final quality of the watch. These are just suggestions :-)
A question to the experts here... from the above list, are the UNITAS the only ones capable of having the crown at 9 o'clock? I ask this because i would love to have a "lefty" watch and this project could be it... but i also rather have an automatic than a handwound watch! :-D
From the movements listed, i believe the ETA 2893-2 GMT would make a very unique watch.

Oh!
It's too bad for me. I just changed my decision to Triton fixed.
I want this watch more strongly and improve the water resistance to 200M or 300M.
BTW, I already have an idea with the dial about the case of Triton fixed. You may check the attachment.

[xabby]

Oh!
It's too bad for me. I just changed my decision to Triton fixed.
I want this watch more strongly and improve the water resistance to 200M or 300M.
BTW, I already have an idea with the dial about the case of Triton fixed. You may check the attachment.
Attachment pic looks like a lum-tec ???

[blighter]

Oh!
It's too bad for me. I just changed my decision to Triton fixed.
I want this watch more strongly and improve the water resistance to 200M or 300M.
BTW, I already have an idea with the dial about the case of Triton fixed. You may check the attachment.

It's Lum-tec, isn't it? It's nice but seems like the Triton will have to wait until maybe another time or another forum...

[Porson]

Hey wise guys,
Yes, it's Lum-tec, but I wipe the mark...ha~
I like this design with strong case, so I want to see the triton fixed with this kind of dial.
Seems so pretty and clearly

[Uwe W.]

Excuse me, I want to know what case we chosen.

I would like to know that as well before I make up my mind about the movement.

Sorry, I think I missed the final results for the case choice. Anyone could throw it in please?

yup, we need to know it before decide on the movement.

So, unless an executive decision is made by the Project Managers otherwise, the "winner" is Nav.B-Uhr II. I'm sure they will update the other threads with the final results soon.

Just a few things guys: Please understand that we are working in different time zones and that we post everything as soon as we can do so.

Cybertrancer's numbers were off slightly and I would remind him that not all votes are posted in the vote thread and that some have been sent to me via PM. The case vote was split by one single vote.

Further information regarding the case will be posted in the case thread.

By the way Uwe, there's a small error in the flow chart.. the movement for the GMT should be ETA 2893-2..

Yes, thanks for pointing that out. I apologise for the screw-up and I'll fix that graphic this evening.

[vnf68]

Cybertrancer's numbers were off slightly and I would remind him that not all votes are posted in the vote thread and that some have been sent to me via PM. The case vote was split by one single vote.
I don't understand why some members of our project sent the voices by PM.Why didn't they vote on a site? Certainly I trust to managers of project and I like both variants of the case.But I think that in the variant of voting by PM there is temptation to influence on the result of voting.:thanks

[Andy S.]

...i thought all voting had to be public in the voting threads.:think:


I don't understand why some members of our project sent the voices by PM.Why didn't they vote on a site? Certainly I trust to managers of project and I like both variants of the case.But I think that in the variant of voting by PM there is temptation to influence on the result of voting.:thanks

[clucania]

Will the movement we select effect the price in major way?

Not sure how possible it is, but it would be interesting to know before voting which movements would drive the price way up.

With that said, I'm initially draw to (B). I prefer handwinds to autos, and I'd love to have one with the seconds at 6. :-!

[the_old_curmudgeon]

...i thought all voting had to be public in the voting threads.:think:

I believe Uwe posted that if for some reason you can't get online to vote during the official window on a particular item you can send him a PM before the voting is opened to the group as a whole. He will cast your vote for you.

If you look at post #2 of the Part 1 Final Vote thread you'll see an example of how he already did it. I for one don't see any real problem with that.

[vnf68]

I believe Uwe posted that if for some reason you can't get online to vote during the official window on a particular item you can send him a PM before the voting is opened to the group as a whole. He will cast your vote for you.

If you look at post #2 of the Part 1 Final Vote thread you'll see an example of how he already did it. I for one don't see any real problem with that.
CzechMate warned that he will absent and Uwe will vote in place of him.He made it.Why did he not publish during voting that as other asked him to vote? Why was it known after voting? Dear Uwe, I apologize for curiosity but I want that you explained a situation.We have a right to know.:thanks

[Uwe W.]

CzechMate warned that he will absent and Uwe will vote in place of him.He made it.Why did he not publish during voting that as other asked him to vote? Why was it known after voting? Dear Uwe, I apologize for curiosity but I want that you explained a situation.We have a right to know.:thanks

I don't know why these voting questions are hijacking a thread that is supposed to be about watch movements, but clearly some of you are harboring discontent and suspicion with regard to how we handled the voting process, so let's clear the air right now.

By our count, the Nav. B had ONE more vote than the Triton, not TWO as was reported by cybertrancer. The Triton was ahead in the vote until the last hours when krille changed his mind and voted for the Nav. B instead of the Triton. I don't have an explanation for the discrepancy between our results and cybertrancers. If it makes you feel better, use his. Either way the result is the same, a virtual tie, again.

Nothing in this voting process has been altered or "influenced" as you suggested in a previous post. In fact, I deeply resent your accusation. Trust me, I certainly wouldn't have volunteered all my time and effort just to steer a watch design to my liking. As Old Curmudgeon clearly stated, some people might PM their vote if they know they are going to be unavailable, but since you clearly don't trust how we’re handling this, we will make sure to post every vote we receive in the vote thread from now on.

This was supposed to be a fun, community-oriented project. Of course, as with everything built by committee, someone needs to manage the process. Along the way there will always be those that don’t agree with how things are being run, but if we were to only accept unanimous decisions, nothing will ever come of this. And if you think that I’m being dishonest in any way, or you don’t like how this is being handled, I’ll gladly let you take over. Just say the word.

[vnf68]

Dear Uwe!
I ask not offended.I wrote that trust fully to you .But I want that a situation was maximally transparent.:thanks

[cybertrancer]

Hi folks!

I didn't know that "my math" would contribute to some sort of speculation or suspicion. I will always abide by any decision in the end. So i the future i will only post opinions on the watch and refrain from posting any kind of counting, math etc. :-)

I was actually expecting that some of the more expert people would comment my doubts and suggestions i made in the same post :-)

[vnf68]

I want a friendly atmosphere in a project.There is the saying: trust but check.:-)

[the_old_curmudgeon]

Getting back to the topic at hand... b-)

I really REALLY like the idea of a GMT movement.
The idea of a power reserve indicator I also find intriguing. :think:

Given the choices between other movements, including handwinds, I would prefer to go with a hacking movement, but that wouldn't be a showstopper for me either.

[harrchen]

As an addendum to my support for the power reserve, I wonder how hard it'd be to modify the movement to a linear display, e.g. like the Ball Trainmaster Powerglow (http://www.righttime.com/images/dial/nm1056d-lanight.jpg). That would REALLY make this piece a unique one.

[teg33]

My big preference is for a 24 hour movement. That is, the GMT ETA 2897 that has been converted to a 24 hour purist (the GMT hand is removed and the hour hand is placed on its cannon).

For those of you who have never owned a 24 hour watch, the hour hand only moves around the dial once a day as opposed to twice for most watches. There are also 24 indices instead of 12 for the hours. :-!

There are some really cool designs for 24 hour watches and you can get quite creative with the dials, often they're shaded between AM and PM hours or daylight and nighttime hours.
Now you're talking... :-!:-! When we're going to vote for the movement ?

[Uwe W.]

As an addendum to my support for the power reserve, I wonder how hard it'd be to modify the movement to a linear display.

I would caution everyone away from anything that will require modification of a stock movement. Changes such as those will drive the project cost above our preset level and cause additional delays. I think we need to work within the parameters of what the stock movements will do, and concern ourselves with the functions they already offer.

There was another, very good suggestion that we consider other movements such as those made by Miyota. Unless there is an overwhelming demand for something non-ETA, I don't think other movements will fall within the scope of this project. I'm also not sure Steinhart would be willing to build something non-Swiss; their entire line is built using ETA movements and it would make sense to respect that arrangement and their experience with the product.

Maybe we need a quick show of hands about that idea? Personally I'd like a Swiss ETA in my watch.

[Uwe W.]

Now you're talking... :-!:-! When we're going to vote for the movement ?

Nice to know there are other purists out there!!! |>

Anyone else have any thoughts on a 24 hour watch?

[the_old_curmudgeon]

I would caution everyone away from anything that will require modification of a stock movement. Changes such as those will drive the project cost above our preset level and cause additional delays. I think we need to work within the parameters of what the stock movements will do, and concern ourselves with the functions they already offer.

There was another, very good suggestion that we consider other movements such as those made by Miyota. Unless there is an overwhelming demand for something non-ETA, I don't think other movements will fall within the scope of this project. I'm also not sure Steinhart would be willing to build something non-Swiss; their entire line is built using ETA movements and it would make sense to respect that arrangement and their experience with the product.

Maybe we need a quick show of hands about that idea? Personally I'd like a Swiss ETA in my watch.

Nothing against Miyota (I assume the suggestion was to consider the 8215), but I think we've already got several good options for automatics on the table that support hacking to boot.

[harrchen]

Maybe we need a quick show of hands about that idea? Personally I'd like a Swiss ETA in my watch.

I'd prefer to stick to ETA.

Understand that additional complications would be tough. Just out of curiosity, how hard would it be to use a "window" for the power reserve? So rather than having a hand, you'd stick a small wheel on it (kind of like a date wheel) and then you can have a semicircular gauge for it. I don't know if that counts as modifying the stock movement or not, but again, it'd be something really unique.

My second choice would probably be the pure 24 hour ... that's also pretty unique.

[Riker]

Thanks Uwe & CZ for all your efforts working on this project...Keep it going fella's...:-!

I have my doubts about the case vote outcome, but that is of no concern now. The Triton non diver will be a great ambassador for this project...;-)

Now the movement....I think it is vitally important that the options provided be costed & these costs be considered when making the options available for the vote. We have in general, had a suggestive voted on a price range for the watch. Lets be sure we stick to it when looking at movements. There is no point suggesting we should have this & that etc, etc only to increase some peoples expectations, then find the movement(s) in question will increase the watch cost & make it too expensive for some. I don't mind either way but some will...

Just a suggestion, lets keep the ideas simple to start then move forward with possible movement complications etc, as we know more about the costs involved.....

Thanks, i'll go back to my corner now & watch on........:-d

[clucania]

Thank you to those spending their personal time on organizing this! Back on topic, back to the fun! :-d

I would prefer to stick with Swiss, but as I said before, I'd like to know what the consequences are when making this choice.

I'd love to have another hand wind, but would change my mind if the cost of that drove the price out of many people's budget.

[H.Solo]

My big preference is for a 24 hour movement. That is, the GMT ETA 2897 that has been converted to a 24 hour purist (the GMT hand is removed and the hour hand is placed on its cannon).

For those of you who have never owned a 24 hour watch, the hour hand only moves around the dial once a day as opposed to twice for most watches. There are also 24 indices instead of 12 for the hours. :-!

There are some really cool designs for 24 hour watches and you can get quite creative with the dials, often they're shaded between AM and PM hours or daylight and nighttime hours.

That idea is very interesting... I like it a lot! :-)
Pehaps there could be dial, that completely glows on the "night-side" and has only lumed markers on the "dayside"... that would be kind of unique! |>

hmm... perhaps I should vote for the GMT-movement now... ;-)

[Triton]

Dear WUSSE posse,

Uwe asked me to add some clearity to this thread, so I'll try my best ...

First of all, the WUSSE watch will still be a Steinhart watch and Steinhart is all about Swiss Made. So anything but a Swiss Made movement is absolutely out of the question! The Claro CL 888 is Swiss Made but uses a great percentage of chinese parts, which is why this movt is also not an option for Steinhart (anymore). Steinharts is also about mechanical movts, so no quartz either.

These, among others, are the reasons why I have given Uwe a list of available movements that I have discussed with Günter Steinhart previous to the publishing of this thread. So please try to only discuss the choices given in the first post of this thread.

As Riker has already stated, adding complications, modifying parts of movts, incorporating swan neck regulators or screw ballances, skeletizing rotors, etc. will push the cost of the project beyond the 500 Euro that we have set as the maximum per single watch. So, not an option!
Uwe's idea of using a 2893-2 for a 24 Hrs watch is not considerd a complication, so yes, option! :-!

I don't think there is a need to discuss the cost points of each movement. Yes, some are more expensive than others, but that's marginal IMHO. We have decided on a maximum budget and the options provided in the polls are all within this budget. Besides, that's already all part of the stuff that gets discussed "behind the scenes", so that all of you don't have to worry about it and simply indulge in the fun part of this project.

Oh, and I would really appreciate it also, if someone feels, he/she needs to discuss anything regarding the way things are run and done by the WUSSE team, to please open a new thread for stating your concerns.

[vnf68]

I like Uwe's idea of using a 2893-2 for a 24 Hrs watch |>

[Icestorm]

I agree with the concerns expressed here regarding the handling of the case vote. It would not be relevant on this particular thread, except further 'executive decisions' on their behalf may very well become the prevailing theme for many future decisions still to be made on our watch project.

Irrespective of the time and effort the project management has put into the endeavor, it must be recognized that the watch is a project of the entire forum and not just the project managers (unless we had switched to a totalitarian or communist system?). The 'executive decision' regarding the case was poorly planned, poorly executed, and had no degree of proper transparency, and was extremely unprofessional.

Under a democratic process, there may be an argument for a project manager to have the right to decide in the event of a dead split tie. By the end of the voting the Nav B Uhr II was obviously ahead by one vote, so it was not a tie.
It is my opinion that it is better to get something right than to get it out the door fast, and even if a 'super-majority' of 66% could not be reached it was obvious by the end of the vote that more people wanted the Nav B Uhr II than the Triton.

The decision makers voted for the case that narrowly lost, and then unethically exercised their power to mandate what was effectively a minority decision. This was therefore an abuse of power, pure and simple.

My concern is not so much the Case, but for future decisions pending. It is very likely that many of the decisions going forward will not attain a 66% super-majority, the simple fact being that most of us have different tastes, and therefore under the rules laid out and executed by the project managers, they will have autocratic power to decide almost every aspect of the watch unless an overwhelming majority votes on a particular choice. By example, the United States election has never produced a president who won over 66.7% of the popular vote. And that is just a 2-candidate voting process. This is an especially critical point because, in the current Movement phase alone, it is likely that the voting will be fragmented between at least 3 or 4 options, making a 66.7% majority very difficult to attain.

My recommendation is the same as that for all democratic governments: in the event of a 50-50 split the voting is thrown out and another voting phase must begin. In the event of a 50.1% majority, then the voting is decisive, and the forum should accept the results of the vote.

Whether the project managers decides to re-vote on the case is entirely up to them, but if they pursue the current system and continue to abuse their power in autocratically deciding against an obvious majority decision then I will be submitting a formal complaint to the Watchuseek administration.

[vnf68]

then I will be submitting a formal complaint to the Watchuseek administration.:-d:-d:-d
Drink sedatives!:-d
Administration of the WUS does not relate to the project

[Icestorm]

:-d:-d:-d
Drink sedatives!:-d
Administration of the WUS does not relate to the project

That may or may not be true, and they may or may not do anything, but all that matters from my perspective is that I bring this particular concern to their attention. Whether anything happens from that is not up to me.

I stress, I am not whining about the case, although i do like the Nav B Uhr II case more than the triton non-diver, (as did the majority who voted). I am simply very concerned at the way the decision-making has, and may continue to be, carried out on this project.

[vnf68]

Dear Icestorm! Read please WUSSE - Project evolvement and General Information.

[Icestorm]

Why do you assume that I have not read these? I have read them, numerous times. The rules themselves are inequitable, but if the execution was reasonable then the situation is tolerable. However, the decision regarding the Case is evidence that execution was anything but reasonable.

I have read the decision on Project evolvement, but all it basically is, is acknowledgement that the Triton had lost by a single vote, but the project managers are voting it in anyways, because unless a contrary option carries the ridiculously high threshold of 66.67% (unlikely to be reached under any normal voting circumstances with such a multitude of options as we have regarding the making of this watch) then the project managers can do whatever they please.

[markrlondon]

Whatever movement we choose I feel it should be automatic and have hacking seconds. I find non-hacking watches to be frustrating and manual hacking is annoying at best.

I also prefer watches with a date function although this is not an absolute must-have for me.

The GMT complication seems particularly appealing, especially combined with the Triton non-diver case with the large bezel for 24 hour markers.

So it seems to be that, option F, the ETA 2893-2 GMT, with date and hacking features, would be the best choice.

One question about the ETA 2892-2's GMT hand: I presume it can be set independently?

[the_old_curmudgeon]

One question about the ETA 2892-2's GMT hand: I presume it can be set independently?

Yes, you set it by placing the stem as if you're going to set the date. Turning it in 1 direction sets the date, the other direction sets the GMT hand.

[markrlondon]

Yes, you set it by placing the stem as if you're going to set the date. Turning it in 1 direction sets the date, the other direction sets the GMT hand.

Thanks.

[clucania]

I don't think there is a need to discuss the cost points of each movement. Yes, some are more expensive than others, but that's marginal IMHO.

Thank you... I wasn't sure if the differences were marginal or significant.

[cybertrancer]

My big preference is for a 24 hour movement. That is, the GMT ETA 2897 that has been converted to a 24 hour purist (the GMT hand is removed and the hour hand is placed on its cannon).

For those of you who have never owned a 24 hour watch, the hour hand only moves around the dial once a day as opposed to twice for most watches. There are also 24 indices instead of 12 for the hours. :-!

There are some really cool designs for 24 hour watches and you can get quite creative with the dials, often they're shaded between AM and PM hours or daylight and nighttime hours.
Hi!

I also find this possibility appealing, Uwe :-) . So with this option (i think it is F. ETA 2893-2 GMT :-s) the "hour hand" moves at half the velocity, right? Also a date indicator would be a nice option.
In terms of design i also believe it could be very unique and creative for the designers. A day/night theme or some kind of contrast for day time and night time. Consider these 2 possibilities for example (if it is possible to do :think: ):
- The 24h mark to be on W(est) (if you think cardinal points on the watch) and the 12h mark on E(ast) - This way, in terms of design, the "night part" of the watch would be the Western part of the watch, and the "day part" on the Eastern part of the watch.
- The 24h mark to be on N(orth) (if you think cardinal points on the watch) and the 12h mark on S(outh) - This way, in terms of design, the "night part" of the watch would be the Northern part of the watch and the "day part" on the Southern part of the watch.
At least it would be very different :-p

Edit: I replied to the original post and this one ended in the middle of the discussion... :-d

[CmdrBond]

I am a simple man with simple tastes but would very much like a date function and GMT complication on this project. Just my 2p worth:-)

[SydneyDan]

I would personally like to see this project go with the 2893 GMT or the 2897 power reserve, especially in light of the case choice.
Even if it does cost a few dollars more, I'm sure the end result will have the potential to be more unique and special. I'm also in favour of trying to obtain the highest grade of these particular movements possible without completely blowing out the price. In the long run, it'll be worth it.
I would not be so enthusiastic about a Miyota movement--Gunter Steinhart himself has never used one in his normal run, why on earth would we want to use one to represent what is to be a SPECIAL watch?
I know you guys, because I know myself, if it means buying one less watch two or three weeks after this one is delivered, then so be it! We have the potential to make this one the envy of all the watch forums worldwide.

BTW, OC, the Unitas 6497 and 98 run at 18,000 BPM unless they are the -2 versions, in which case you are correct. I don't think Steinhart's ever used a 6497 or 6498-2 though...

[vnf68]

I would personally like to see this project go with the 2893 GMT or the 2897 power reserve, especially in light of the case choice...
We have the potential to make this one the envy of all the watch forums worldwide.:-!

[CzechMate]

My big preference is for a 24 hour movement. That is, the GMT ETA 2897 that has been converted to a 24 hour purist (the GMT hand is removed and the hour hand is placed on its cannon).

For those of you who have never owned a 24 hour watch, the hour hand only moves around the dial once a day as opposed to twice for most watches. There are also 24 indices instead of 12 for the hours. :-!

There are some really cool designs for 24 hour watches and you can get quite creative with the dials, often they're shaded between AM and PM hours or daylight and nighttime hours.

That idea is very interesting... I like it a lot! :-)
Pehaps there could be dial, that completely glows on the "night-side" and has only lumed markers on the "dayside"... that would be kind of unique! |>

hmm... perhaps I should vote for the GMT-movement now... ;-)

that would look very cool. :-!

Wonderful concept, I will give my vote to that. Unless someone brings something even better, this concept is very appealing!|>|>|>

[CzechMate]

I would personally like to see this project go with the 2893 GMT or the 2897 power reserve, especially in light of the case choice.

I know you guys, because I know myself, if it means buying one less watch two or three weeks after this one is delivered, then so be it! We have the potential to make this one the envy of all the watch forums worldwide.



Nicely said, thanks for the support!|>

[NeoTiger]

I'd like anything with date and hacking... either the GMT or 24hour option would be interesting as well though.

[Tempus Fugit]

This sounds very interesting...

[SydneyDan]

I've been thinking a bit about this project this morning- work was a bit slow (!)
From reading the other fora, the Dive and the Public Forum in particular, there seems to be an real interest in a sport, or dive orientated handwinding watch with a depth rating of 200m or more. Now, in the market as it is at the moment we have the Panerai Luminor models (300m)and the UTS Adventure(500m) that fit that bill, as well as the Glycine Incursore 200m Unitas.
All amazing watches (I've got a Radiomir 210 base and an UTS Adventure Unitas, and I'm very fond of them)
Here is a possible opportunity to create something really unique with the Triton case--which is rated at 300m on the Steinhart website. How about a 6497/8 Unitas driven sport/dive watch with a similar water-rating? Both the Panerai Radiomir and the UTS have a screw-down crown set-up, but the Glycine 200m has a double gasket on it's winding crown. UTS even has a power reserve option with the Unitas 6497, but I'm not sure how much that would add to the overall cost.
This is just another idea of how we could make Triton's fantastic case a real showpiece--something we won't ever want to part with!

[Riker]

Hmmm, intriguing idea there SD.... I must admit I didn't want to stray into this kind of design but, this particular idea has some serious merit....

[Snake Pliskin]

Just to throw in my $ .02.

Every idea I have read is good and has merit. This is obviously very subjective with many different views.

For what it's worth here is mine.

When I think of Steinhart watches I think of a Pilot's Watch first and foremost. I think many if not most members will agree with that.

Here is our chance to design the ultimate pilot for the money.

The 44mm case would accomodate the largest number of forum members.

A brushed case with polished bezel I think is classy without being too blingy.

Incorporating a central second hand wth a date and power reserve function will make for a pretty special and unique Steinhart.

Very practical without being too busy. Our own type of Big Pilot but with tweaks to stand on its own instead of being an homage or a copy.

Possibly incorporating a sandwhich dial (similar to Panerai) to create depth in the dial and add to the uniqueness.|>

These are my personal preferences and I am not pushing them on anybody but I would love to hear some feedback on these suggestions.

Good, bad, or indifferent.

Thanks for your time and I respect what fellow members here think.:thanks

[vnf68]

Just to throw in my $ .02.

Here is our chance to design the ultimate pilot for the money.

The 44mm case would accomodate the largest number of forum members.


I remind: Triton non-diver won in voting.

[Snake Pliskin]

oh'......welll then.........nevermind.......

[H.Solo]

that would look very cool. :-!

Wonderful concept, I will give my vote to that. Unless someone brings something even better, this concept is very appealing!|>|>|>

A two-sided dial could possibly be done with black lume so it would look black in daylight but glows greenish in the night... :-p

Another idea I have for this would be different colored lume markers for the dial... (possibly blue for the day- and red for the night-side) in daylight, they would just look white. :-)
Perhaps this could even be combined with a sandwich-dial... don't know, how much space would be in the Triton-case... :think:

[JuanSinmiedo]

D. ETA 2824-2

Thanks...

[ht8306]

No.16 (ht8306) choice: C. ETA 2801-2 with central seconds

[blighter]

Reading all the posts and after some wondering I definitely would go for either 24h option or possibly the power reserve. Both are adding something to the mix...
Definitely would not like unitas. I would prefer manual but the sweet smoothness of 28000 bps is way more attractive to me. (I only presume all those autos have this bps rate, as it hasn't been added). The date option for me only depends on the design of the dial etc. and not so important. Day option would be too cluttering IMO.
Is there an option for this case to go Titanium? As we go towards a sport type of watch (it seems), I think that would be the best.

[handwound]

#32 - handwound - C. ETA 2801-2

[Uwe W.]

There seems to be a number of posts here that look like votes.

Gentlemen, this isn't a voting thread, it's for discussion of the various movements that could be used for the WUSSE watch. Please wait for the Vote thread to be posted (this Friday) before indicating your choice. If you won't be available this weekend to vote, please send me a PM with your vote and I will post it on your behalf in the the vote thread.

Thanks!

[Uwe W.]

I would prefer manual but the sweet smoothness of 28000 bps is way more attractive to me. (I only presume all those autos have this bps rate, as it hasn't been added).

Good points. I'm pretty sure you could always have the rotor removed from your watch (if we end up with an auto) and convert it to a manual. I agree that nothing is nicer than the graceful sweep of a movement with a fast beat.

[markrlondon]

From reading the other fora, the Dive and the Public Forum in particular, there seems to be an real interest in a sport, or dive orientated handwinding watch with a depth rating of 200m or more.

Didn't we leave behind the possibility of a proper dive watch when we chose the Triton non-diver fixed bezel case?

As things stand I feel we're heading for something a bit different to a conventional dive watch, something that doesn't necessarily fit into any strict category.

[markrlondon]

When I think of Steinhart watches I think of a Pilot's Watch first and foremost. I think many if not most members will agree with that.

That's an interesting comment. When I think of Steinhart I think first and foremost of diver's watches: The Ocean 1 and Triton. ;-)

But, whatever leaps to mind when one thinks of Steinhart, I don't think it should limit us: Let the watch that we are desigining here be something new that doesn't fit neatly into any pre-existing category.

[markrlondon]

I'm pretty sure you could always have the rotor removed from your watch (if we end up with an auto) and convert it to a manual.

That's a very good point: Choosing an auto movement doesn't prevent those who prefer manual wind from having it.

Having read what everyone else has written so far I still prefer the ETA 2893-2 GMT with both the date and hacking options.

[the_old_curmudgeon]

As things stand I feel we're heading for something a bit different to a conventional dive watch

My goodness, I sure hope so. I have enough dive watches.

[vnf68]

I prefer movement with power reserve or GMT function but without 24-hour dial.Such dial is overloaded.IMHO

[the_old_curmudgeon]

I prefer movement with power reserve or GMT function but without 24-hour dial.Such dial is overloaded.IMHO

|>

[markrlondon]

I prefer movement with power reserve or GMT function but without 24-hour dial.Such dial is overloaded.IMHO

Surely if the watch has a GMT hand then it needs to have 24 hour markings?

In particular, with the Triton non-diver case, there should be room to have the 24 hour marking on the bezel without over-crowding the dial area.

[harrchen]

I prefer movement with power reserve or GMT function but without 24-hour dial.Such dial is overloaded.IMHO

We may be able to put the thick bezel to good use by putting some/all of the markers on it, rather than the dial.

[markrlondon]

We may be able to put the thick bezel to good use by putting some/all of the markers on it, rather than the dial.

Agreed.

[the_old_curmudgeon]

We may be able to put the thick bezel to good use by putting some/all of the markers on it, rather than the dial.

Exactly...use the bezel for the 24 hr markings, not the dial.

[vnf68]

We may be able to put the thick bezel to good use by putting some/all of the markers on it, rather than the dial.
I agree with you.But I talk about other aspect.I talk about watch with the hour hand which only moves around the dial once a day as opposed to twice for most watches. There are also 24 indices instead of 12 for the hours.I prefer a traditional variant with GMT function.

[vnf68]

Often time in a 24-hour format is named a "war-time" and intended mainly for the special situations, when it is necessary at first blush on a watch to define, day or night now, or it is important to avoid ambiguity in this question. In ordinary life such necessity arises up very rarely.(Sorry for my bad English).

[vnf68]

I like bezel with the 24 hr markings.But I don't like the dial with the 24 hr markings.For example:

[Uwe W.]

I like bezel with the 24 hr markings.But I don't like the dial with the 24 hr markings.For example:

Yes, but the Airman you pictured is designed to display three time zones. The hour hand and dial markings for your time zone, the GMT hand for a second time zone, and the rotatable/lockable bezel for a third time zone.

The Airman I have was converted to a purist, so the dial hours are my time zone and I can still use the rotating bezel for a GMT function, something that can't be performed with any Triton case (the diver model doesn't have a lockable bezel).

I absolutley agree about the uncluttered look. Given the mass of the fixed Triton bezel there is lots of room to maintain a clean look, even if it is decided that we go with a 24 hour watch.

So when it comes to the available movements, I think it's important to consider which one will best exploit the design, shape and function of the Triton and its fixed bezel. One thing is for sure, this is really going to be a special watch. :-!

[vnf68]

I absolutley agree about the uncluttered look. Given the mass of the fixed Triton bezel there is lots of room to maintain a clean look. ... One thing is for sure, this is really going to be a special watch.
I am satisfied that our opinions coincide:-!

[vnf68]

I think that a massive bezel of the Triton non-diver is supposed by the use exactly ETA 2893-2 movement with GMT function.

[aerome]

I'll reserve my opinion for now

[Icestorm]

That's a very good point: Choosing an auto movement doesn't prevent those who prefer manual wind from having it.

Having read what everyone else has written so far I still prefer the ETA 2893-2 GMT with both the date and hacking options.

The 2893 is definitely a superior movement. A uniquely designed GMT Diver anyone?

That said, the 2897 Power Reserve is tempting also. And I wouldn't mind a Unitas 6498 with display back either (although I suspect I am in the minority here :-)). I love small seconds at 6.

[Icestorm]

Am i the only one that thinks the non-diver triton case still looks quite like a diver watchcase? :-d

[Triton]

Am i the only one that thinks the non-diver triton case still looks quite like a diver watchcase? :-d

:rodekaart This thread is for discussing the movements choices, please start a new thread of your own if you want to keep underlinig your disappointment regarding the case descision! :roll:

[blighter]

Yes, the power reserve is on my mind more and more...
24h/ gmt might look cool, but using pragmatic approach, I'll use the power reserve indicator pretty much all the time. GMT probably will be in use once a year on holidays on the other side of the globe (if I'm lucky), and unless you're on the unfortunate side of the polar circle or on a particularly stretched partying strain , you can pretty much tell whether it's AM or PM without the watch giving you this specific info :-d
Display caseback is possible with the smaller movement as well, isn't it? (I would very much like to have that). You just have a smaller cristal diameter. Isn't that correct?

The 2893 is definitely a superior movement. A uniquely designed GMT Diver anyone?

That said, the 2897 Power Reserve is tempting also. And I wouldn't mind a Unitas 6498 with display back either (although I suspect I am in the minority here :-)). I love small seconds at 6.

[CzechMate]

...there was very good point regarding beat of the movement. If we want centered second hand, we need smooth movement, that leaves out Unitas and I am not sure about 2801 handwound.
I would really love this to be hacking movement, I spend some time adjusting my Unitas non hacking movement, it is always a bit tricky, without hacking mechanism...:-d Luckily, i dont have to do it too often, it keeps excelent time...
I would go with 24h idea, therefore i will vote for GMT movement. I do not see anything even close to this concept. Very interesting.|>

[yycwatchdog]

just to throw in my $ .02.

Every idea i have read is good and has merit. This is obviously very subjective with many different views.

For what it's worth here is mine.

When i think of steinhart watches i think of a pilot's watch first and foremost. I think many if not most members will agree with that.

Here is our chance to design the ultimate pilot for the money.

The 44mm case would accomodate the largest number of forum members.

A brushed case with polished bezel i think is classy without being too blingy.

Incorporating a central second hand wth a date and power reserve function will make for a pretty special and unique steinhart.

Very practical without being too busy. Our own type of big pilot but with tweaks to stand on its own instead of being an homage or a copy.

Possibly incorporating a sandwhich dial (similar to panerai) to create depth in the dial and add to the uniqueness.|>

these are my personal preferences and i am not pushing them on anybody but i would love to hear some feedback on these suggestions.

Good, bad, or indifferent.

Thanks for your time and i respect what fellow members here think.:thanks

+1 :-!

[Uwe W.]

:rodekaart This thread is for discussing the movements choices, please start a new thread of your own if you want to keep underlinig your disappointment regarding the case descision! :roll:

I'm pretty sure Icestorm was just messing around, but for everyone else, please do not start any new threads in this sub-forum! Please add your comments to the existing "Evolvement" thread. Thanks!

[Uwe W.]

Reading through these posts I've realized that although we may come to an agreement on a movment, there will still be a question of which features of the movement will get used. This will probably require yet another vote, as incorporating the various options in the initial vote will make it even more difficult to pick a single case.

I think we should be prepared to have two movement votes. One to decide the movment, and if necessary, a second to decide which of its features will be used.

[markrlondon]

Reading through these posts I've realized that although we may come to an agreement on a movment, there will still be a question of which features of the movement will get used. This will probably require yet another vote, as incorporating the various options in the initial vote will make it even more difficult to pick a single case.

I think we should be prepared to have two movement votes. One to decide the movment, and if necessary, a second to decide which of its features will be used.

Sounds good to me. ;-)

[the_old_curmudgeon]

Sounds good to me. ;-)

Agreed. |>

[NeoTiger]

I would've thought taking the opposite approach made more sense... voting for what features you want, which would dictate which movements are able to provide these features.

[Icestorm]

I'm pretty sure Icestorm was just messing around, but for everyone else, please do not start any new threads in this sub-forum! Please add your comments to the existing "Evolvement" thread. Thanks!

Fair enough.

To be fair I actually like a Dive Watch and was not venting at all, but I can see how it is not a comment that is directly relevant to the movement thread.

[Tempus Fugit]

#45 - Tempus Fugit - F - ETA 2893-2

[Snake Pliskin]

My vote is for "G" ETA 2897, center second hand, date, and power reserve!:-!

:thanks -Snake

[Snake Pliskin]

Not sure where to post this.:think:

My vote for the movement is "G" ETA 2897, Center Seconds, Date, and MOST importantly, POWER RESERVE! :-!

:thanks -Snake

[markrlondon]

We're not voting yet. :-)

If I understand correctly there'll be a new vote thread set up in due course.

[Uwe W.]

Thanks Mark! |>

I'm just setting up the voting thread now. It'll be up in a few minutes.

[harrchen]

I'm gonna do one last get-out-vote push/drive for the 2897 (power reserve):

Come on guys, how often do you really use a GMT ... whereas wouldn't it be totally cool to know how much activity your wrist gets in a day? Think of the possibilities!

Do the right thing, vote YES on Option G.

Paid for by WUSers For Power Reserve.

[Uwe W.]

Come on guys, how often do you really use a GMT ... whereas wouldn't it be totally cool to know how much activity your wrist gets in a day?

Nice try!

I travel all the time but that's not even why I like the GMT movement. I'm interested in the fact it can be used as a 24 hour watch; even if that option isn't chosen, I know I can still take the watch and get it converted to a 24 hour purist.

As for the PR indicator? It's a toy. A gimmick. It's an automatic movement, so as long as you're wearing it, it'll always read 100%. So when would you use the PR indicator, when you're not wearing the watch and want to check your to see how much longer it will run on its own before it stops????

:-! VOTE (F)!!!!! :-!

This announcement paid for by the Watches are Tools, Not Toys movement.

[SydneyDan]

Nice try!

I travel all the time but that's not even why I like the GMT movement. I'm interested in the fact it can be used as a 24 hour watch; even if that option isn't chosen, I know I can still take the watch and get it converted to a 24 hour purist.

As for the PR indicator? It's a toy. A gimmick. It's an automatic movement, so as long as you're wearing it, it'll always read 100%. So when would you use the PR indicator, when you're not wearing the watch and want to check your to see how much longer it will run on its own before it stops????

:-! VOTE (F)!!!!! :-!

This announcement paid for by the Watches are Tools, Not Toys movement.
|>|>

[Riker]

Naughty, naughty....WUSSE project crew shouldn't be encouraging or in lieu discussing the placement a vote in any particular direction other than voting on it in the voting thread...:-d...:-d...:-d...:-d...:-d

Said in jest ofcourse...:-!

Nice try!

:-! VOTE (F)!!!!! :-!

This announcement paid for by the Watches are Tools, Not Toys movement.

[blighter]

This announcement paid for by the Watches are Tools, Not Toys movement.

So you need a TOOL to tell you whether it's 16:45 or 4:25PM? :-d:-s:-d:-s



So when would you use the PR indicator, when you're not wearing the watch and want to check your to see how much longer it will run on its own before it stops????



1. YES... and also to know whether it needs to be winded or not, if not on your wrist at that particular time (I presume you still have manual winding option)

2. For those who prefer manual, the rotor could be removed (either as part of the project or at later stage). I believe some were considering this option

[Uwe W.]

Naughty, naughty....WUSSE project crew shouldn't be encouraging or in lieu discussing the placement a vote in any particular direction other than voting on it in the voting thread

Absolutely shameless wasn't it? :-d I was merely acting as a counterweight... can't let those power reservists run amok, can we?


So you need a TOOL to tell you whether it's 16:45 or 4:25PM?

I was of course referring to GMT aspect of the movement as being a tool. With regard to the 24 hour purist, as anyone who has been locked-up in an isolation cell can tell you, without a 24 hour timepiece it's impossible to know whether it's day or night in the outside world... an important consideration when your once daily meal of bread and water arrives at 16:45 and you need time to prepare for dinner.

[CzechMate]

Guys, do not forget to vote, there are only like 33 votes so far in the vote thread!!! We want a majority of you to cast the vote, of course we respect your right not to vote, but you are missing your chance to influence this project!:think:

In case someone cannot find the way to the voting thread, here is a link:
http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=324535

:thanks

[Riker]

Hahaha...... Yep, that's why I voted 6498......:-d.......:-!.....

Absolutely shameless wasn't it? :-d I was merely acting as a counterweight... can't let those power reservists run amok, can we?

[blighter]

I was of course referring to GMT aspect of the movement as being a tool. With regard to the 24 hour purist, as anyone who has been locked-up in an isolation cell can tell you, without a 24 hour timepiece it's impossible to know whether it's day or night in the outside world... an important consideration when your once daily meal of bread and water arrives at 16:45 and you need time to prepare for dinner.

Well, I didn't think of those locked-up in an isolation cell... That wasn't very thoughtful of me :-( I should probably change my vote :-d

[tt1diver]

Seems like we have a clear winner now...

[Uwe W.]

Just a quick update: Official vote results will be posted late this evening (EST). At the same time we will be posting a two-day vote to determine which options will be used with the winning movement.

[Uwe W.]

Voting for the movement is now closed. Here are the results:


F - ETA 2893-2 23 votes (52.3%) WINNER
G - ETA 2897 15 votes (34.1%)
D - ETA 2824-2 3 votes (6.8%)
B - Unitas 6498 2 votes (4.5%)
C - ETA 2801-2 1 vote (2.3%)
A - Unitas 6497 0 0.0
E - ETA 2836-2 0 0.0

Total Votes = 44 (only 55.0% of eligible voters)

We'll be posting a new vote shortly to decide on the options that will be included with the ETA 2893-2 movement. This vote will only last two days!

[blighter]

Not that it affects myself but it might during the next rounds of voting: Why is it only 2 days without any lead time even? Surely that's not going to increase the number of people participating in the voting process?

The other thing is deciding on things like date or lack of it without having any concept of the direction the watch is going to go in...
The date option might suit some designs and concepts and may not suit other design options...


Voting for the movement is now closed. Here are the results:


F - ETA 2893-2 23 votes (52.3%) WINNER
G - ETA 2897 15 votes (34.1%)
D - ETA 2824-2 3 votes (6.8%)
B - Unitas 6498 2 votes (4.5%)
C - ETA 2801-2 1 vote (2.3%)
A - Unitas 6497 0 0.0
E - ETA 2836-2 0 0.0

Total Votes = 44 (only 55.0% of eligible voters)

We'll be posting a new vote shortly to decide on the options that will be included with the ETA 2893-2 movement. This vote will only last two days!

[markrlondon]

Why is it only 2 days without any lead time even?

Didn't we discuss complications at the same time as we discussed movements? I seem to recall that it was stated before we had the vote on movements that we'd have to vote afterwards on complications. (I cannot now find the message where this was said).

The other thing is deciding on things like date or lack of it without having any concept of the direction the watch is going to go in...

As I see it this is part and parcel of deciding on the direction the watch is going to go in.

[Uwe W.]

Why is it only 2 days without any lead time even? Surely that's not going to increase the number of people participating in the voting process?...

As Mark commented it was mentioned in this thread and the vote thread:

4 Days Ago…

Reading through these posts I've realized that although we may come to an agreement on a movment, there will still be a question of which features of the movement will get used. This will probably require yet another vote, as incorporating the various options in the initial vote will make it even more difficult to pick a single case.

I think we should be prepared to have two movement votes. One to decide the movment, and if necessary, a second to decide which of its features will be used.


1 Day Ago…

Just a quick update: Official vote results will be posted late this evening (EST). At the same time we will be posting a two-day vote to determine which options will be used with the winning movement.


From the vote thread…

Voting will cease at 12:00 (EST) MONDAY NOV. 9 at which point the votes will be counted, a winner declared and a second vote started.
...

However, if people feel that there should be more time alloted to this vote then we can certainly extend it. Voting seems to taper off quickly after the first 36 hours, so I'm not sure how many people would actually be excluded from a quick vote.

The intent was to move things along; there is a great deal of material still to cover that will consume much more time than deciding whether or not you want a date display on the dial. We're not in a hurry, but we do want to have a realistic amount of time to bring this project to realisation.

Then there's the question of those people on the WUSSE list who I see reading this forum and yet don't bother to vote. How will we know who is going to bother to vote or not? I think if you're actively interested in this Project that two days should be sufficient time to make a choice. Again, if people want this changed, please say so.

The other thing is deciding on things like date or lack of it without having any concept of the direction the watch is going to go in... The date option might suit some designs and concepts and may not suit other design options...

That's a good point and one we've been tossing around for the past week. While the order in which we introduce design elements and votes may not seem obvious, they are in fact guided by a professional watch designer. He has advised us as that the movement's options be decided upon before any discussion of the dial's design. Often this all appears like a chicken and egg argument that has merits to both approaches, but for the purpose of this Project I think it's in our best interest that we listen to and follow an expert's recommendations.

[vnf68]

I think if you're actively interested in this Project that two days should be sufficient time to make a choice.
That's true|>

[vnf68]

Vote for the A. GMT Hand, Date and Hacking.
24 Hour Hand (NO GMT) is not comfortable.
Why is it needed? We can define a day or night without this option

[blighter]

Vote for the A. GMT Hand, Date and Hacking.
24 Hour Hand (NO GMT) is not comfortable.
Why is it needed? We can define a day or night without this option

What do you need the GMT for then? (Unless you are really traveling through time zones back and forth on regular basis... I'm not)

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

I would like to make a suggestion regrading the "options" for the watch. Since the winner for movement is ETA "2893-2" the 1st decision that we should make is which funtions we want to use. For this specific movement i "see" 3 possibilities:
- 4 hands (Main hour - 12h cycle; Main minutes; Seconds hand; GMT hand (or 2nd time zone) - 24h cycle)
- 3 hands (Main hour - 24h cycle; Main minutes; Seconds hand)
- 3 hands and 1 rotating disc (Main hour; Main minutes; Seconds hand; rotating day/night disc)
So this way, the vote would be only on 3 options.
After this we could make another vote of whether or not to include a date function.
The current vote mixes the hour functions we want to include, with the date function and the result may be too fractious. For example, we could have a majority of people wanting a pure 24h watch (by removing the 12h hand), but they could be almost equally divided among those wanting a date ond those not wanting a date function, and we could have a minority of people wanting a 12h GMT watch but concentrating on a date version and this one could end up winning. I don't know if i explained my concern well with this example. But to sum up, i believe we should have 2 separate votings: One for using GMT function or 24 h watch, and another vote for date or no date. :-d

[markrlondon]

What do you need the GMT for then? (Unless you are really traveling through time zones back and forth on regular basis... I'm not)

I often communicate with people in other timezones. I find a GMT hand useful for keeping a track of the time in the other timezone.

[harrchen]

Hi!

I would like to make a suggestion regrading the "options" for the watch. Since the winner for movement is ETA "2893-2" the 1st decision that we should make is which funtions we want to use. For this specific movement i "see" 3 possibilities:
- 4 hands (Main hour - 12h cycle; Main minutes; Seconds hand; GMT hand (or 2nd time zone) - 24h cycle)
- 3 hands (Main hour - 24h cycle; Main minutes; Seconds hand)
- 3 hands and 1 rotating disc (Main hour; Main minutes; Seconds hand; rotating day/night disc)
So this way, the vote would be only on 3 options.
After this we could make another vote of whether or not to include a date function.
The current vote mixes the hour functions we want to include, with the date function and the result may be too fractious. For example, we could have a majority of people wanting a pure 24h watch (by removing the 12h hand), but they could be almost equally divided among those wanting a date ond those not wanting a date function, and we could have a minority of people wanting a 12h GMT watch but concentrating on a date version and this one could end up winning. I don't know if i explained my concern well with this example. But to sum up, i believe we should have 2 separate votings: One for using GMT function or 24 h watch, and another vote for date or no date. :-D

Completely agree. I'm voting for E, but I'd far prefer F to A. I'm worried the A's will take it if the E's and F's end up splintering...

[markrlondon]

Hi!The current vote mixes the hour functions we want to include, with the date function and the result may be too fractious. For example, we could have a majority of people wanting a pure 24h watch (by removing the 12h hand), but they could be almost equally divided among those wanting a date ond those not wanting a date function, and we could have a minority of people wanting a 12h GMT watch but concentrating on a date version and this one could end up winning.

I think I understand your concern but in fact the current vote is simply asking three independent binary questions:
1. GMT vs. 24 hour?
2. Date yes/no?
3. Hacking yes/no?

As of message #18 in the voting thread the results so far are as follows:

GMT Hand: 8
24 Hour: 8

Date: 10
No Date: 6

Hacking: 16
Non-Hacking: 0


As you can see, each question is effectively being decided independently.

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

This is of course your opinion :roll:. I believe since this is a "special watch" why not make it different? Most watches in the market are 12h cycle watches, or am/pm. I think it could be interesting to have a pure 24h. Is it not comfortable? Like many things in life, it is just a matter of adjustment... I would definitly like to show my watch to my friends and ask them what time it is and see their reactions upon seeing a 24h watch b-):-d.
So, i would vote for E or F |>

[markrlondon]

Completely agree. I'm voting for E, but I'd far prefer F to A.

Then vote for F or A then! :-) There is nothing in the choices being offered (A to H) that forces you to vote for a combination of options that you might not want. In other words, all possible combinations are represented in options A to H.

I'm worried the A's will take it if the E's and F's end up splintering...

This is not statistically relevant. Each independent option (i.e. date, hacking, GMT vs. 24-hour) is effectively being decided on individually.

[cybertrancer]

I think I understand your concern but in fact the current vote is simply asking three independent binary questions:
1. GMT vs. 24 hour?
2. Date yes/no?
3. Hacking yes/no?

As of message #18 in the voting thread the results so far are as follows:

GMT Hand: 8
24 Hour: 8

Date: 10
No Date: 6

Hacking: 16
Non-Hacking: 0


As you can see, each question is effectively being decided independently.


Hi!

Yes i understand what you have written here. But what i would like to be more clear in this specific voting, is if the managers will "separate" the voting in 3 different results as you did, or, if the voting will be decided from 8 different options (that is why there are 8 letters, A to H). ;-)

[markrlondon]

Hi!

Yes i understand what you have written here. But what i would like to be more clear in this specific voting, is if the managers will "separate" the voting in 3 different results as you did, or, if the voting will be decided from 8 different options (that is why there are 8 letters, A to H). ;-)

It makes no difference. The final outcome is identical. They are just two ways of asking the same question and getting the same result.

It might have been clearer if the questions had been asked as three separate binary questions but in fact it doesn't matter: The eight options offered in this vote encompass all possible outcomes of the three binary questions.

In other words, no one is being denied the chance to vote for exactly what they want in terms of their choice of date/no date, hacking/non-hacking, GMT/24-hour. The end result of this vote will be exactly as if we had been asked the three separate binary questions.

**edit**
But see also my message below.

[markrlondon]

if the managers will "separate" the voting in 3 different results as you did, or, if the voting will be decided from 8 different options (that is why there are 8 letters, A to H). ;-)

Ah, are you concerned about the possibility of there being a second round of voting? I was concerning myself only with this particular vote in my comments prior to this one.

It should be noted that, should none of the options A to H obtain >50% of the vote, it does not matter in itself. It makes no make logical sense in this case for the minority option(s) to be eliminated and for a second round to occur just because none of them obtain a simple majority.

The reason for this is that we are voting here for three independent issues (date/no date, hacking/non-hacking, GMT/24hour). Therefore the only logical way to count the votes is separately, on a per-issue basis. Only then can one sensibly decide to carry out a second round of voting for the individual issues(s) that are tied, if any.

For example, as of message #19 in the voting thread, option A has 47.1% of the vote, E has 17.6% and F has 35.3%. None of them has a simple majority. But, unlike in previous votes, it doesn't matter. What does matter here is that there are simple majorities for the individual questions being voted upon:
GMT Hand: 8
24 Hour: 9

Date: 11
No Date: 6

Hacking: 17
Non-Hacking: 0

If, for example, the vote was to end here then there would be no need for a second round. The clear winners would be: 24-hour, date, hacking.

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

Ok, if that is what the managers intended, than it is clear for me now :-d

[markrlondon]

Hi!

Ok, if that is what the managers intended, than it is clear for me now :-d

Note that everything I wrote above is just my interpretation. I've not spoken to the project managers about any of this. You'll need to check with them as to their intentions.

[vnf68]

We can interpret variously.But I think that we vote for the concrete type of the movement.In this time:
A-8
F-5
E-4
Winner A

[vnf68]

Please look and say how many time.Majority answer 3.10 .
But because this is a watches with 24-hour hand that is real 6.10.
Is it comfortable?

[Uwe W.]

Mark has nailed how this vote will work. Our goal was to minimize the amount of voting required to identify the favorite options. With that in mind, the results will show us if there is a preference for a GMT or 24 hour function and whether or not having a Date display is something that those people will want. It would appear at least the Hacking element has been overwhelmingly decided.

The idea was to keep this simple for everyone: pick the options that best match what you want. It's unlikely that if you wanted a Date display in a GMT watch that you wouldn't want one if a 24 hour feature was chosen instead.

I hope this makes sense. Please read through Mark's posts as he does have a firm grasp of this multi-choice voting process.

[Uwe W.]

Please look and say how many time.Majority answer 3.10 .
But because this is a watches with 24-hour hand that is real 6.10.
Is it comfortable?

What isn't comfortable is having a pink ribbon as a watch band... :-d

Please don't feel intimidated by the idea of a 24 hour watch. The "discomfort" you describe comes from trying to overcome your conditioned response to a clock face.

I test products for a living that require me to constantly overcome what I'm used to. The trick is to allow for a period of familiarisation before deciding whether or not you like it. I wear both 12 and 24 hour watches and have no problem using either. I find there is something enjoyable about knowing that one revolution of the hour hand represents a day in your life. A quick glance at a 24 hour dial that show the hour hand at the bottom tells me half the day is gone. You could compare this to buying a new car; think about the process you go through to get used to reading all the instrumentation. Once you've spent some time with the new car it only takes a quick glance to understand what is going on.

When it comes to this type of movement, and indeed a Special Edition watch, it's important to keep an open mind.

[vnf68]

It was many 24-hours watches in the USSR

[Triton]

To be honest, I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a 24 hour watch in the end! There's a reason why these kind of watches are not very poular you know.

If your wear a 24 hour watch every day, you'll most probably get used to telling the time this way rather sooner than later. But if you are like me, switching watches almost on a daily basis, you will probably get agravated more than once, when wearing the WUSSE 24hr watch and trying to tell the time fast. I for one would probably not want this watch if the (very few) votes turn out to favor a 24hr watch.

I'm afraid, that a lot of people may back out of their initial interest, if this becomes a 24hr watch, perhaps leaving too few people that would actually buy the WUSSE, to make this project come to life in the end.
But that would be worst case scenario, which I hope won't happen. Maybe I'm just a little too negative here, because I have absolutely no use for a 24hr watch ...

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

The main reason why a 24h watch is "not very popular" is that in the past, some people "decided" to divide the day in AM and PM and thus a 12h cycle watch makes sense. :think: People got used to that format and today many countries use that format to tell the time. In my country and in many other European countries (and also countries from other continents as well) that format was not adopted. The simple fact is that the demand for 24h watches is much higher for that reason alone. ;-)
I also believe that many people have never seen a 24h watch. Some will have a negative reaction but there is a good chance that some will perceive in such a watch a good opportunity to wear something different! b-)
This is a special edition watch. Why not make it special and different? I'm not saying that a 12h cycle watch would make the watch bad... i simply believe that a 24h watch would make it different from the trend. I also believe that some people who have voted for the 24h watch never had one of these and will probably think that this could be a good chance to have one! That is why i believe that if in the end the 24h watch prevails, most people will not back out from the chance to have such a special watch! Maybe they will not use it on a daily basis, but only on special occasions, or to impress a friend or family (and that way making a good publicity to a 24h watch! :-! ).
As a side note, in the end, IF the 24h watch wins, we could, in the design phase of this project, make a dial with a contrast in color or something to help create a night and day difference and thus making it easier for the brain to "see" the correct time of day. It is good for our brain to make it work once in a while... :-d :-d

[vnf68]

To be honest, I really hope this doesn't turn out to be a 24 hour watch in the end! There's a reason why these kind of watches are not very poular you know.

If your wear a 24 hour watch every day, you'll most probably get used to telling the time this way rather sooner than later. But if you are like me, switching watches almost on a daily basis, you will probably get agravated more than once, when wearing the WUSSE 24hr watch and trying to tell the time fast. I for one would probably not want this watch if the (very few) votes turn out to favor a 24hr watch.

I'm afraid, that a lot of people may back out of their initial interest, if this becomes a 24hr watch, perhaps leaving too few people that would actually buy the WUSSE, to make this project come to life in the end.
But that would be worst case scenario, which I hope won't happen. Maybe I'm just a little too negative here, because I have absolutely no use for a 24hr watch ...
It's true. I absolutely agree with you.

[vnf68]

Maybe they will not use it on a daily basis, but only on special occasions, or to impress a friend or family (and that way making a good publicity to a 24h watch! :-! ).<|

I do not want to impress a friends or family.I want to have a watch which will be liked at first for me then other.(Sorry for my bad English)

[Triton]

I'm sorry cybertrancer, but I do not agree with your statements. It remains a fact for me, that a 24hr watch is just as non-sensical as an automatic watch with a power reserve indicator or a dive watch with a manual helium release valve.

[vnf68]

I'm sorry cybertrancer, but I do not agree with your statements. It remains a fact for me, that a 24hr watch is just as non-sensical as an automatic watch with a power reserve indicator or a dive watch with a manual helium release valve.
:-!

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

It would actually be quite funny to see a watch with a manual helium release valve :-d
Well i understand your reasons for not liking a 24h watch. I guess we have different views on the matter. b-)
In the end, i believe the 12h GMT will be probably the winner on this vote, mainly because people are more comfortable with that option. I actually am a bit surprised to see the vote so close :-! :-d

[vnf68]

Dear Uwe!
Listen to opinion of the respected Triton!
Dear CzechMate!
Speak out on this issue!

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

I agree with you vnf68. It is fundamental that we enjoy the watch we wear, or it would not make sense buying it :-! That is the reason why i vote for a 24h watch and i guess it is the same reason why you vote for the 12h GMT watch ;-)

P.S. I don't have reading problems, and i don't think most people in the forum have them too... but if anyone has... i can also activate bold on my posts ... :rodekaart

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

Are you somehow implying that other people's opinion are not to be respected? :-s
I respect Triton's opinion even though we disagree on the choice of watch we desire.
Learning to respect other opinions is the basis for a good and healthy debate on any issue. :thanks

[Uwe W.]

Clearly this is a matter of divided opinion and personal choice.

Nonsensical to me is taking a day that consists of twenty four hours and dividing it in two. Then, to make sure no one is confused, an AM or PM suffix is added to every time to differentiate between the two halves. There are many situations in life where 24 hour time is the standard time format, mostly in situations where it is critical that the time not be misunderstood. Airline flights, for example, are posted in 24 hour time. And of course the military are infamous for designating time in the same way.

I always get a chuckle out of people that are perplexed when they see something posted in 24 hour time. They read something that says they need to be somewhere at 18:30, but when they look at their 12 hour watch for an answer, they just stand there with a blank expression.

There are many iconic watches with strong followings that are based on 24 hour designs. Do they sell in fewer quantities than 12 hour watches, sure, but that’s always the case for items that require discerning tastes. It certainly doesn’t mean they are impractical or don’t have appeal for many watch collectors. But since when has this design process been about how many watches it will sell? Isn’t something that has been designated as a Special Edition by default mean that fewer examples of it are expected to be sold? Shouldn’t it embody characteristics that make it stand out from the typical watch?

Nothing I write here about 24 hour watches will change the minds of those who have already decided they don’t want one. Most of those people have never owned one or will ever bother to try one. In this vote they will certainly choose the more “popular” option because they want a more popular watch. No problem there, the choice is obviously their own and I can understand their reasoning. For that reason they shouldn’t panic about the threat of a 24 hour WUSSE watch as no doubt the GMT option will prevail. I just hope that the final design we come up with will leave me the option of tearing the GMT hand out of my WUSSE and replacing it with an hour hand.

[Uwe W.]

Dear Uwe!
Listen to opinion of the respected Triton!
Dear CzechMate!
Speak out on this issue!

Hi. I think you've made it extremely clear that you don't like a 24 hour watch. We all respect Triton's opinions, but guess what, I also have my own. I also own and enjoy serveral 24 hour watches that other designers have seen fit to build. Don't get too worked up about this, I'm sure the vote will end up working in your favour! :-!

[cybertrancer]

... I just hope that the final design we come up with will leave me the option of tearing the GMT hand out of my WUSSE and replacing it with an hour hand.

Hi Uwe!

Would it be possible to ask Herr Gunther to personalize the watch in such a fashion, if the 12h GMT prevails? I guess that would make everybody happy :-d

[Triton]

Clearly this is a matter of divided opinion and personal choice.

Nonsensical to me is taking a day that consists of twenty four hours and dividing it in two. Then, to make sure no one is confused, an AM or PM suffix is added to every time to differentiate between the two halves. There are many situations in life where 24 hour time is the standard time format, mostly in situations where it is critical that the time not be misunderstood. Airline flights, for example, are posted in 24 hour time. And of course the military are infamous for designating time in the same way.

I always get a chuckle out of people that are perplexed when they see something posted in 24 hour time. They read something that says they need to be somewhere at 18:30, but when they look at their 12 hour watch for an answer, they just stand there with a blank expression.

There are many iconic watches with strong followings that are based on 24 hour designs. Do they sell in fewer quantities than 12 hour watches, sure, but that’s always the case for items that require discerning tastes. It certainly doesn’t mean they are impractical or don’t have appeal for many watch collectors. But since when has this design process been about how many watches it will sell? Isn’t something that has been designated as a Special Edition by default mean that fewer examples of it are expected to be sold? Shouldn’t it embody characteristics that make it stand out from the typical watch?

Nothing I write here about 24 hour watches will change the minds of those who have already decided they don’t want one. Most of those people have never owned one or will ever bother to try one. In this vote they will certainly choose the more “popular” option because they want a more popular watch. No problem there, the choice is obviously their own and I can understand their reasoning. For that reason they shouldn’t panic about the threat of a 24 hour WUSSE watch as no doubt the GMT option will prevail. I just hope that the final design we come up with will leave me the option of tearing the GMT hand out of my WUSSE and replacing it with an hour hand.

Uwe, my friend, I too live in a country that uses the 24 hour system, so I'm very used to it. But this has absolutely nothing to do with watches! All public clocks that tell time using hands in my country have a twelve hour scale, because people are simply used to this system. I also know a lot of watch collecters from my country and not one of them owns a 24hr watch. But when we set a time to meet we write 20:00 and not 8 PM. No problem!

The day is divided into day and night. It is an absolute exception that we wake up, look at our watch and are not able to tell what half of the day we're in. Looking out of the window usually solves this very quickly ;-)

Look at it this way: Using a 2893-2 movement and taking away one of the four hands, thus getting rid of one function, is like amputation where it's not needed. Leave it the way it was meant to be and you have the best of both worlds, a twelve hour indicator and a 24 hour indicator, both in the same watch. And should you be travelling in a different time zone, you still have the freedom to let the 24 hour function help you to not accidentally wake up your family in the middle of the night :-s

@cybertrancer: The Omega Seamaster Planet Oceans incorporate a manual helium escape valve ;-)

[Uwe W.]

Hi Uwe!

Would it be possible to ask Herr Gunther to personalize the watch in such a fashion, if the 12h GMT prevails? I guess that would make everybody happy :-d

Fortunately I have a access to an exceptionally talented watchmaker, but you're right, it would be easiest for us to have the conversion performed at Steinhart's end.

Once the entire design is finalized we can certainly ask, but even if Steinhart would allow us to make this change, the design of the watch would have to work as a 24 hour timepiece.

All we can do right now is wait and see how the project develops and see what our options are once it has been completed. I'm committed to this project regardless of how it turns out; how often do you have the chance to buy a watch that you had a hand in developing? :-)

[cybertrancer]

... The day is divided into day and night. It is an absolute exception that we wake up, look at our watch and are not able to tell what half of the day we're in. Looking out of the window usually solves this very quickly ;-)

...

@cybertrancer: The Omega Seamaster Planet Oceans incorporate a manual helium escape valve ;-)

Hi!

That is a very fine watch... even James Bond got to wear it! :-d Unfortunatly i can't afford such a beauty :roll:

To add a few more sticks in the fire ... :-d ... i work in shifts. So one week i work during the morning... another week i work afternoons ... and the worse off all, i also work on night shifts. Having a 24h watch would be very handy for me :-d
Now a question to the experts... is there any movement made specifically for 24h watches, or are all some modification of a GMT type movement? :think:

[Uwe W.]

Look at it this way: Using a 2893-2 movement and taking away one of the four hands, thus getting rid of one function, is like amputation where it's not needed. Leave it the way it was meant to be and you have the best of both worlds, a twelve hour indicator and a 24 hour indicator, both in the same watch.

That is true, however, as a person who has already performed this amputation on other watches, I can say it was always in pursuit of a cleaner looking watch face. I own a couple of GMT watches already that I only use for travel, so in my own personal situation I'm not looking for another.

As I suggested earlier, this is an argument that boils down to preference. There is no right or wrong in this debate and we could argue into the next month about the merits of each design. You like red cars and I prefer black ones and everyone should vote for the colour they want. It's that simple. To me, that is how this discussion should be left. I wrote my previous post in reply to those that were trying to convince me that what I liked was in some way wrong or silly. No. It's just something they don't like... :-d

[vnf68]

Only philosophers and inhabitants accepted a dogma that truth gives birth in a spore, but alas - it not so, because truth gives birth not in a spore, but to on by the mean of analysis of the got information, only independent of each other opinions of people give birth in a spore (Sorry for my bad English once again but I think that you understand me):thanks

[Uwe W.]

Only philosophers and inhabitants accepted a dogma that truth gives birth in a spore, but alas - it not so, because truth gives birth not in a spore, but to on by the mean of analysis of the got information, only independent of each other opinions of people give birth in a spore (Sorry for my bad English once again but I think that you understand me):thanks

Unfortunately, not at all. :-s

By spore, do you mean vacuum? Truth isn't born in a vacuum, but comes out of the discussions of differing opinions?

Perhaps you could write this a different way?

[blighter]

looking at your posts which I've just read, I've cancelled my vote regarding the 24/gmt option. I don't really mind that much which option it is, and I've just changed it to hacking, no date, if that counts (if it doesn't then fair enough as well).

[simonjr]

Nothing I write here about 24 hour watches will change the minds of those who have already decided they don’t want one. Most of those people have never owned one or will ever bother to try one.

I have a 24 hour watch and it's sitting in my cupboard.. Worn it once or twice and I just gave up..

In all honesty, yes, a 24 hour watch will be unique befitting the status of a Special Edition Watch. But, how long will the novelty last? I may impress a friend or two about how unique it is and how easy it is to tell which half of the day I'm in but let's face it.. it is a novelty.

The Special Edition Watch should be just that, a special edition made by a watchmaker which is pleasing to the eye and functional which is easy to take for the common person in the street. If you need a timepiece to tell you which half of the day you are in, then you should get a Specialized Watch for that function.

I also own a wall clock the runs backwards. It is a conversation piece but I hate looking at it to tell time, even though I should be 'used' to it by now since it's hanging on my wall for the past 7 years..

The fact that Triton brought up about a 24 hr watch not being very common holds some merits.. 99.9% of the world cannot be wrong..

[markrlondon]

The 24 hour vs. GMT debate is fascinating. It's almost exactly divided us in half.

By my count the 24 hour option is in the lead by one vote at the moment (as of message #31 in the voting thread)! So if you've not voted yet please enter your vote. There's only a few hours left to register your preferences.

Personally I think that going for the GMT option (i.e. vote for A, B, C, or D) gives the widest range of options, even for those of us who prefer a 24 hour watch.

[Uwe W.]

I have a 24 hour watch and it's sitting in my cupboard.. Worn it once or twice and I just gave up..

Once or twice?!? I guess you could consider that a try. ;-)

What is it by the way? I'll buy it off you...:-!

The fact that Triton brought up about a 24 hr watch not being very common holds some merits.. 99.9% of the world cannot be wrong..

I have to bite my tongue here and keep my mouth shut. :-x Maybe you should read over his comments a few more times; there might be a little more there than you selectivley read.

And because they all manufacturer 24 hour watches, I guess that also makes Breitling, Chronoswiss, Fortis, Glycine, Maurice Lacroix, Ocean 7, Oris and Zeno (of those I can immediately think of) producers of novelty items?

[Uwe W.]

A note to everyone regarding the voting:

Because of time zone differences and the concern that there wasn't enough time for everyone to cast their vote we've extended the Options vote. The vote results along with the next design thread will be posted late Thursday evening (EST).

We thank you for your patience. :thanks

[teg33]

The fact that Triton brought up about a 24 hr watch not being very common holds some merits.. 99.9% of the world cannot be wrong..
I agree 24 hr watch is not very common and this project suppose to be a special watch, not a very common watch. ;-)

[vnf68]

Unfortunately, not at all. :-s

By spore, do you mean vacuum? Truth isn't born in a vacuum, but comes out of the discussions of differing opinions?

Perhaps you could write this a different way?

I know English badly.If you know Russian that I am ready to explain to you my opinion.Truth gives birth not in a vacuum.It gives birth by means of analysis of the got information (not in that moment when people argue) . An irritation and nonunderstanding gives birth when people argue.

To Uwe W:I do not want to look foolish because I know English badly.Therefore I halt some discussion in this forum.
Although I do not know English but I actively participate in a project and vote one of the first.The half of participants of this project does not vote.They wait a fate and quiet as sheep which must cut out.

[simonjr]

And because they all manufacturer 24 hour watches, I guess that also makes Breitling, Chronoswiss, Fortis, Glycine, Maurice Lacroix, Ocean 7, Oris and Zeno (of those I can immediately think of) producers of novelty items?

Yes, I do agree that the manufacturers make 24hr watches but are those models the main bread and butter of the brand? If the manufacturers produce 1 or 2 models of 24hr watches amongst their vast collection of other 12hr watches, I'll say yes, it's a novelty idea..

Why don't we just re-work the calender to read 1-365 while we're at it so that we know for sure which part of the year we're in..

[Uwe W.]

I do not want to look foolish because I know English badly.Therefore I halt some discussion in this forum.
Although I do not know English but I actively participate in a project and vote one of the first.

I would encourage you to continue posting and can assure you that you don't look foolish. My reply to your earlier comment was in earnest; I really wanted to understand your point.

I for one am extremely impressed by how well the non-English participants here write. I think there is great value in the global nature of this forum and would hope that no one would feel intimidated. From what I've seen we're a pretty friendly lot. :-!

[Uwe W.]

Why don't we just re-work the calender to read 1-365 while we're at it so that we know for sure which part of the year we're in..

Another oversimplification.

The calender is meant to encompass the complexity of seasons, lunar cycles and the days you hopefully get off work. The role of a watch is far more simple: It merely needs to monitor the progress of a single day, although only divided into 24 hours, was still too complex for some to comprehend. So someone made it easier by splitting the day in half; now those who count using their fingers and toes would never run out of digits with which to tell the time.

[blighter]

Yes, I do agree that the manufacturers make 24hr watches but are those models the main bread and butter of the brand? If the manufacturers produce 1 or 2 models of 24hr watches amongst their vast collection of other 12hr watches, I'll say yes, it's a novelty idea..

Why don't we just re-work the calender to read 1-365 while we're at it so that we know for sure which part of the year we're in..

Well... calendar reading 1-365 (aka julian code) is actually quite commonly used in the food industry :-d

[handwound]

The only thing I can offer to this discussion is that if the design ends up being a 24hr watch, I would lose all interest in the project and end up giving up my slot.

Maybe I'm narrow-minded or "conditioned" to favor a 12 hr dial, but like Popeye says, I am what I am.

[harrchen]

The only thing I can offer to this discussion is that if the design ends up being a 24hr watch, I would lose all interest in the project and end up giving up my slot.

Maybe I'm narrow-minded or "conditioned" to favor a 12 hr dial, but like Popeye says, I am what I am.

This goes both ways though - I could see myself losing interest if this becomes a standard GMT watch. I'm just pointing out that with every design decision we will lose people, so that's not something that can dissuade us from making progress whichever way the vote goes.

[harrchen]

By my very cursory and crude count, it looks like the movement options vote came down as follows. Note that due to an abstention on the GMT vs. 24-hr hand portion of the vote, the totals for that vote are one less than the totals for the other two. These are not official results, but I think they will stand.

GMT [20 votes]
24-hr [15 votes]

Date [27 votes]
No date [9 votes]

Hacking [36 votes]
Non hacking [0 votes]

By my counts, option A (GMT hand, Date, Hacking) wins.

[Uwe W.]

Many thanks to Harrchen and The Old Curmudgeon (although, I suspect he isn't really that old, and he certainly isn't a curmudgeon) for their assistance in tabulating the votes.

Pending the outcome of current discussions (which will be fully revealed at their conclusion), I'd like to ask that we suspend discussion on the vote results, and for those that haven't yet voted, to take the opportunity to do so.

We plan on posting full details by tomorrow evening (Nov 14 EST). :thanks

[the_old_curmudgeon]

Many thanks to Harrchen and The Old Curmudgeon (although, I suspect he isn't really that old, and he certainly isn't a curmudgeon) for their assistance in tabulating the votes.

Pending the outcome of current discussions (which will be fully revealed at their conclusion), I'd like to ask that we suspend discussion on the vote results, and for those that haven't yet voted, to take the opportunity to do so.

We plan on posting full details by tomorrow evening (Nov 14 EST). :thanks

Oh, I'm pretty old, and as for being a curmudgeon, well,, I have my moments. :-d

Thanks for sticking around. :-!

[teg33]

They wait a fate and quiet as sheep which must cut out.
I like the way you said |>

[angel]

Mark has nailed how this vote will work. Our goal was to minimize the amount of voting required to identify the favorite options. With that in mind, the results will show us if there is a preference for a GMT or 24 hour function and whether or not having a Date display is something that those people will want. It would appear at least the Hacking element has been overwhelmingly decided.

The idea was to keep this simple for everyone: pick the options that best match what you want. It's unlikely that if you wanted a Date display in a GMT watch that you wouldn't want one if a 24 hour feature was chosen instead.

I hope this makes sense. Please read through Mark's posts as he does have a firm grasp of this multi-choice voting process.

Hi Uwe W,

For the first time I see a vote to choose features of a watchb-) I realize that here there are many people who understand much of the fabulous universe that exists inside of a watch.
I do not know if GMT or 24 never imagined that this would make a difference in a watch :-p, but since I got interested in watch realized that these "details" make all the difference.:-!
Congratulations on democratic attitude. I'm sure that is the choice to watch will be worthy of Mr.007:-d:-d:-d.
Sorry my bad English:-x

[angel]

Hi!

That is a very fine watch... even James Bond got to wear it! :-d Unfortunatly i can't afford such a beauty :roll:

To add a few more sticks in the fire ... :-d ... i work in shifts. So one week i work during the morning... another week i work afternoons ... and the worse off all, i also work on night shifts. Having a 24h watch would be very handy for me :-d
Now a question to the experts... is there any movement made specifically for 24h watches, or are all some modification of a GMT type movement? :think:


HI,

I look forward to the final decision to see how the watch. If it is worthy of James Bond? This I have no doubt.:-!b-)

[Uwe W.]

Here are the results from the options vote:

A - GMT, Date, Hack > 20 votes (54.1%) WINNER
F - 24 H, NO Date, Hack > 10 votes (27.0%)
E - 24 H, Date, Hack > 7 votes (18.9%)
Total Votes > 37 (46.3% of eligible voters)

Since a few people were unclear as to how this vote would work, we've broken down the results into the various sub-sets that were also taken into consideration individually:

GMT - 20 votes (54.1%) WINNER
24 Hour - 17 votes (45.9%)

Date - 27 votes (73%) WINNER
No Date - 10 votes (27%)

Hacking - 37 votes (100%) WINNER
No Hacking - 0 votes (0%)

There was a unanimous consensus that the watch should feature a hacking movement. As a result the WUSSE watch will be able to 'lock' the second hand to allow for exact time setting of the piece.

There was also a strong interest in a date function. Nearly three-quarters of those who voted asked for a date display. The WUSSE watch will have a date window in the dial's design.

The final feature was the focus of passionate debate and desperate pleas. The GMT feature (four hands on the dial - one of which is dedicated for a second time zone) barely won over a movement that was a pure 24 hour function.

To sum up: The WUSSE watch will be a four hand GMT design that will feature a date window and hackable second hand.

For the 46% of you that wanted a 24 hour watch, please do no feel disheartened. The final design may still turn out to be adaptable to a 24 hour watch, and if does work out that way, we will enquire as to the possibility of your watch being adapted before it is shipped to a 24 hour purist.

We are in the process of putting together the next design thread and are waiting on confirmation from Steinhart as to the availability of a few options. The next thread will be posted as soon as possible (hopefully by Monday evening).

[CzechMate]

Thanks team for excelent job! |>

Next vote will employ STV system. Please everyone read carefully the design discussion thread as you will be expected to cast multiple votes in order of preference (probably three).
This new system will be explained in details in general informations thread.
Thanks everyone who voted (hereby I must reprimand myself for not voting in time). We all hope next vote will have greater attendance.

If you know other participants and know they do not participate, please remind them.
:thanks

Here are the results from the options vote:

A - GMT, Date, Hack > 20 votes (54.1%) WINNER
F - 24 H, NO Date, Hack > 10 votes (27.0%)
E - 24 H, Date, Hack > 7 votes (18.9%)
Total Votes > 37 (46.3% of eligible voters)

Since a few people were unclear as to how this vote would work, we've broken down the results into the various sub-sets that were also taken into consideration individually:

GMT - 20 votes (54.1%) WINNER
24 Hour - 17 votes (45.9%)

Date - 27 votes (73%) WINNER
No Date - 10 votes (27%)

Hacking - 37 votes (100%) WINNER
No Hacking - 0 votes (0%)

There was a unanimous consensus that the watch should feature a hacking movement. As a result the WUSSE watch will be able to 'lock' the second hand to allow for exact time setting of the piece.

There was also a strong interest in a date function. Nearly three-quarters of those who voted asked for a date display. The WUSSE watch will have a date window in the dial's design.

The final feature was the focus of passionate debate and desperate pleas. The GMT feature (four hands on the dial - one of which is dedicated for a second time zone) barely won over a movement that was a pure 24 hour function.

To sum up: The WUSSE watch will be a four hand GMT design that will feature a date window and hackable second hand.

For the 46% of you that wanted a 24 hour watch, please do no feel disheartened. The final design may still turn out to be adaptable to a 24 hour watch, and if does work out that way, we will enquire as to the possibility of your watch being adapted before it is shipped to a 24 hour purist.

We are in the process of putting together the next design thread and are waiting on confirmation from Steinhart as to the availability of a few options. The next thread will be posted as soon as possible (hopefully by Monday evening).

[Boz]

I vote 2897 power reserve.:-!

[whitecopper]

Eta 2836

[cybertrancer]

Hi!

Guys... the movement choice/vote is already closed ;-) . I suggest you read all the important threads before posting. At the time we are debating the dial shade and in a short time a vote will follow. :thanks