Stowa Seatime rebuild...

[JohnF]

Hi -

Well, I've started - gulp - my first rebuild project. It's a vintage Stowa Seatime that I want to give my wife when it's working again.

I bought on eBay and the seller was/is a b*stard. But that's old now and I'm trying to make the best of it.

The face is in great shape, even though the lume is weak. The hands turn in only one direction, which makes me think that there is a gearage problem. There is also no transmission of power from the mainspring to the balance.

Caliber is the classic PUW 1560.

Here are my questions.

1) does anyone know of any schematics for the PUW 1560 (explosion drawings with oiling points, like ETA publishes)?

2) does anyone have a source for PUW 1560 parts, commercially?

3) does anyone have a source for PUW 1560s as ebauche, i.e. the movement alone? Just in case I can't fix it, of course. :-)

4) the second hand is broken and twisted. I haven't been able to find out exactly the hand dimensions to see what size hands I need. I don't want to replace the minute and hour hands (just relume them), but I do want to replace the seconds hand. I imagine that I can figure out the size from PUW 1560 specifications, but I haven't been able to easily find these on the web.

And yes, I've been to Dashto, but he doesn't have any 1560s. 1561, yes, but no 1560s...

Any help appreciated!

JohnF

[Frank Valentin]

Not one of the easiest tasks you´ve chosen! I suppose without the backup of a willing watchmaker it´ll be very difficult to source the spareparts.
The least big problem would be the seconds hand. You´ll have to get a gauge for pinion sizes (Bergeon). Once you know the size it´s easy to order spare hands (at Ofrei for instance).
Good luck! :-!

[JohnF]

Hi -

Actually, I do have the support of the watchmaker from whom I took the watchmaker course, he's offered to help with any sort of this kind of specialty problem. But it's up to me to actually take the thing apart and figure out what is wrong.

And it might be simpler just to put a new movement in...but that'd be close to cheating. :-)

Will check Ofrei, hadn't thought of them...

JohnF

[fkane]

Hi John,

Of course, it would be easier to buy a replacement movement, however the finished product will not have the same value to you. I am also beginning to learn how to fix watch movements and it is not easy, but I am sure with the help of our friends on the forum we will reach our goal. My father used to say about sailing, " it is not about where we are going, it's about how we get there"

Kane

[JohnF]

Hi -

Exactly. It's not so much simply getting a watch for the wife, it's much more making something for her that no one else will have (ok, except for watchmakers' wives).

My wife comes from what we in Germany call "einfache Verhältnisse", she was the second youngest of 9 kids with the father working as a unskilled laborer. She grew up expecting men to be able to fix everything and do everything, from wallpapering to plumbing to installing new electrical sockets etc.

Me, I've been there and done that, but I work 50-60 hour weeks as an economist and really have no interest in fixing things around the house, putting a new coat of paint on the lawn furniture, etc. So I farm these kind of things out, and it's been a bone of contention, since she thinks we waste money on having people do things like that. I see it, of course as an economist, as comparative labor advantages (I'm gonna spend three times as long painting a room as a professional painter, and my marginal leisure cost is much higher than what he is earning...). Put in a new lightbulb? Ok, but spending three hours on a ladder putting in a new light fixture? Nope.

So getting this sort of thing up and running will add to the domestic tranquility, since nobody she knows can do this. :-)

On the downside, she may well tell all of her friends and they'll want me to look at their watches as well. Guess I'll deal with that when it comes along... :-)

JohnF

[JohnF]

So, the saga continues.

When I pulled the component tray out of its box a few minutes ago and turned the watch out, it started running!

Hooray, at least the mainspring isn't dead! That's a relief, to put it mildly. The watch has a nice solid beat to it. Workhorse.

The first picture is of course the movement with the rotor still attached.

The second picture shows the screw next to the hub of the rotor which is the first screw to be undone.

The fourth picture shows what it looks like under the rotor after I've unscrewed the retaining screw next to the hub of the rotor and carefully pried off the rotor itself.

The fifth picture shows the automatic gear winding train.

Basically the gear on the lower side of the rotor engages the small gear directly at 9 o'clock off the central hub. This turns the two gears directly to touching this small gear. There's play here as the upper plate has a jeweled pivot that holds these two in the right place to provide momentum to the mainspring.

Picture 6 shows a magnified view of this gear train. The wheels look alike, but are differentiated enough for me to figure out which one goes where... :-)

Picture 7 shows the watch with this gear train now removed. Pretty dirty, ain't it?

Picture 8 shows the inside of the rotor. What looks rusted is really brass and quite clean.

Picture 9 shows the wheels of the automatic gear train in repose, waiting for cleaning.

Well, that's it for tonight. The next step involved removing the small screws next to the hub before I can access the actual watch works. Given that the mainspring has energy and when I remove this plate the seconds gear will lose its top bearing, I'm going to let the watch run down naturally before attempting any further work. :-)

Which will be Thursday at the earliest and more likely this weekend, since I've got three hours of weight training and sauna planned for tomorrow evening.

And nope, I don't have any schematics or anything like that. I'm just winging it and taking it nice and slow and hope and pray that I can put everything back together.

Which is why I'm taking lots of pictures. :-)

JohnF

[fkane]

WOW that's a lot of work with pictures and posting!! Is the topmost gear in pict 6 missing teeth or is that dirt? Hope you continue this photo post to the end so I can use the pictures for guidance on my own project.


Kane

[JohnF]

Hi-

It's dirty.

Will continue when I have time. Watch is packed away now and resting after all that exertion. :-)

I have to get some stuff to clean and relubricate the watch, as well as a new crystal before much else. Also new lume...

And a hands puller, and a new seconds hand, and and and...

[Frank Valentin]

Great job, John! Be sure to take a lot of photos and don´t tell anyone if you succeed. I did, guess what happened... ;-)

[sevesteen]

So, the saga continues.

Well, that's it for tonight. The next step involved removing the small screws next to the hub before I can access the actual watch works. Given that the mainspring has energy and when I remove this plate the seconds gear will lose its top bearing, I'm going to let the watch run down naturally before attempting any further work. :-)


Even if you let it wind down on it's own naturally, I'd still find the click and let the mainspring down before further disassembly. I've been told that if you don't, you should at least block the escape wheel when removing the pallet to eliminate risk to the pallet jewels.


Which will be Thursday at the earliest and more likely this weekend, since I've got three hours of weight training and sauna planned for tomorrow evening.

And nope, I don't have any schematics or anything like that. I'm just winging it and taking it nice and slow and hope and pray that I can put everything back together.

Which is why I'm taking lots of pictures. :-)

JohnF

I don't know if I could have learned to service a watch without a digital camera. I can usually do without one now on the time-only section, but I still get confused about calendar bits (and occasionally an unfamiliar auto-wind) without lots of pictures. Since it's there anyway, and once you forgot which way something goes it's too late, might as well take a picture after every major piece comes off.

[JohnF]

Hi -

But where's the click? From what I can see, it's buried under the pallet that is to be removed next. Can't see hot to get to the click without removing the overlying pallet first...

Hmmmm. Actually, I think I will remove the balance wheel assembly before continuing. That way there's no risk to the balance wheel from a sudden release of energy...

And I'm NOT planning on taking the balance wheel apart. There are limits even for me. :-)

If I didn't have a digital, I'd be drawing LOTS of pictures. When I think about it, maybe I'll video the process when I get it down pat: that could be cool, and I might be able to compress it enough for the web (I've got a DV camera, but 1 hour of video is around 16 GB, which is a tad much even for broadband...), will have to think about that...

JohnF

[aldo]

I've never disassembled this movement, maybe the click is where i put the arrow ?

Cheers, Aldo.;-)


http://i2.tinypic.com/qzgadv.jpg

[sevesteen]

Hi -

But where's the click? From what I can see, it's buried under the pallet that is to be removed next. Can't see hot to get to the click without removing the overlying pallet first...

I think you mean bridge. There is almost always some way to release the click, even if it is just an access hole in one of the plates or bridges. While you're experimenting with something you think might be the click, wind the stem slightly-A bit less than one click. The click should release and if you let the stem go slowly backwards while holding the click, it should keep going.

If the gears of the layer you're at now turn when you handwind, I'd expect the bit near the top that looks a bit like a US map to be the click, otherwise try Aldo's suggestion. If none of those work look for a hole on the dial side around the edge of the barrel.



Hmmmm. Actually, I think I will remove the balance wheel assembly before continuing. That way there's no risk to the balance wheel from a sudden release of energy...

And I'm NOT planning on taking the balance wheel apart. There are limits even for me. :-)

You don't need to take the balance out, but you should take the cap jewels off for cleaning and oiling. I'd find a junk watch with a similar shock system first--Shock springs are the most difficult regular part of watchmaking for me, but without an ultrasonic or an automatic oiler, I've not had good luck in keeping the watch running more than a few weeks unless I clean and oil the cap jewels.



If I didn't have a digital, I'd be drawing LOTS of pictures. When I think about it, maybe I'll video the process when I get it down pat: that could be cool, and I might be able to compress it enough for the web (I've got a DV camera, but 1 hour of video is around 16 GB, which is a tad much even for broadband...), will have to think about that...

JohnF

Hmm... YOu've got me thinking--I think a stop-action series would be interesting...I may try that on my next watch.

[JohnF]

Hi -

I dug out my video camera (Sony DCR-TRV19) and discovered that it has a fantastic macro function, gets about 2:1 without any problems! Will video my further disassembly: shame that we can't post videos here, but I understand how reluctant Ernie might be considering how the bandwidth would explode. To give you an idea: raw DV runs around 14-16 GB/hour, and I've taken more than an hour to disassemble the watch so far... :-)

Stop-action on this Sony model is limited to 5 seconds per minute, i.e. it's not true stop-motion (like taking 1 frame every 12 seconds would be), but rather simply films for 5 seconds and stops. But I'll try that on my next project...

JohnF

[aldo]

John, but finallly have you discovered where the click was ?

Cheers, Aldo.
;-)

[JohnF]

Aldo -

You're so impatient!

Yep, I found it: but it was so well hidden that I found it ex post facto. Took off the balance bridge with wheel first, then took off that next bridge and...

zischhhh

the main wheel went. I see now where it was hidden in one of the myriad holes on top and is something that you would need a schematic for (which I don't have). Real happy I took off the balance bridge first! :-)

New post coming up when I get the pictures copied from the chip...

JohnF

[JohnF]

Well, finally taking some time to finish the disassembly (I haven't started yet, but am getting there...).

Re-assembly will take a while: I've got small assortment of central stop hands coming in from eBay, but I've got to get three new tools: a watch hands remover, an ultrasonic cleaner and oiling tools.

And oils as well. I've got the right ones in mind, I think, but will ask that question later...

This disassembly will be a little bit different. I've found that my video camera has an excellent macro function and will be filming it in real time to document the procedures, as well as taking the usual pictures. Makes it a little tight to work under the video camea, but I think it'll be an interesting experience. :-)

So, where were we: ah, yes, removing the balance, since I can't see any click to undo to ensure that the mainspring is properly undone...

Well, it's done. I videoed it to see how it works, and the video looks pretty boring to anyone but a WIS. :-)

Won't be able to finish the complete disassembly until I've got the handspuller and to clean I'm gonna go with an inexpensive ultrasound.

First picture I've removed the three screws around that central hub and I've discovered two things: what I thought was a hub is instead a cap, and it's magnetized. Stuck to the tweezers. Not good, I think: will have to see. On the other hand, it may well not play a role and might even be deliberate...but can't see much reason why.

Second picture: at around 9 o'clock there is a hole where I could've released the mainspring by moving the click wheel if I had known it was there. :-)

Third picture: bridge removed. You can see that there are apparently two central gears, one on top and one on bottom: the bottom one is used to move the hours and minutes hands to set the watch, while the top shares the same pivot, but isn't, obviously, fixed to move the same as the bottom.
Left here from the central gearing is a lovely escapement bridge to allow one to fix the escapement before putting the balance back in: this would be virtually impossible otherwise.

Fourth picture: this is as far as I can go. The central gear can be first removed when I pull the hands and then the face to gain access to the face side of the watch. Looks sorts sad and forlorn at this point, and everything now gets put away...

Fifth picture: Balance, resting on its back in the jewel, best way I can think of keeping it safe. Very, very simple balance wheel with a slight weight on one side, barely visible at around the 7 o'clock position on the balance wheel itself.

Sixth picture: that pesky bridge underneath which the mainspring was hidden. You can now see the click next to the keyless winding gear. The small gear was between the bridge and the mainspring; the washer was attached to that between the bridge and the gear, probably to hold it in place and to reduce friction.

Seventh picture: bits and pieces. There is the hardest working part of the watch, the escapement and the escapement wheel, both of which are incredibly fragile, as well as the escapement bridge.

So, the adventure continues. I have to figure out which oils/greases to acquire, I have to clean everything first, I want to pull the hands and put on a new seconds hand (got a selection on the way...), then also need to worry about getting everything back together...

I've decided to go with an ultrasound for the cleaning, since I don't trust myself with such small stuff.

I videoed this stage of the disassembly, but I'll never show it to anyone: it shows how far I have to go! :-) Had too much tea as well: hands shook a couple of times, looks terrrrible! :-S

It'll be at least 1-2 weeks before I get back to this, given that I have to figure out a bunch of stuff before then and wait for some tools and materials to arrive...

But never fear, to paraphrase the governor of California: I'll be back!

JohnF

[aldo]

Aldo -
ou're so impatient!JohnF
:-(

Sixth picture: ........ You can now see the click next to the keyless winding gear.

It seems that piece I marked with the arrow in my pict. but how it works, without disassemling before the movement ?
Sliding it to left or right ?

Thank you, Aldo.
;-)

[JohnF]

Hi -

Not sure either. You're probably right! Or left? :-)

Will find out when I reassemble. If I can. :-)

Have a nice evening!

JohnF