LM-3 Discussion

[MitchSF]

Ok, I know this is crazy, off-the-wall, and unexpected. After speaking with an Asian manufacturer today, this was emailed to me.

This watch uses a Swiss made, SW200 movement (almost identical to the ETA 2824). It is about 42mm diameter, with a 24mm lug width. The bezel is 60 clicks and the feel is ok, not great, but it is not loose.

The case can be PVD plated, for the price quoted. This is a stock case from the manufacturer, with our dial and hands, and their crazy crown guard removed. We also repositioned the crown to the 4:00 position. Since it's an off the shelf case design, there are no mold charges to amortize. The build quality is good, and it's water resistant to more than 30atm - I don't remember exactly. The crystal is sapphire. There is a helium escape valve at 11:00. I don't know why it's not on the CAD drawing.

Is this interesting, or should we pass? I think we should pass, but opinions are appreciated.

Mitch

[mr2blue]

I Pass. I am interested in the higher end projects and I think this would be a strategically poor decision. It all depends on what you want your brand to represent. I am noticing a seeming rush to get more watches on the market, which I understand, but in terms of your long term business plan is it really in your best interest. I guess you have to decide what Ocean7 is in terms of brand recognition.

One poorly designed product or quality escapement is carried by the brand. Take Orsa for example....is it swiss or is it asian or is it swaisan?

How do you want your brand to be recognized?

[XTrooper]

No interest here. Watches like these under a plethora of brand names are almost literally "a dime a dozen."

[MitchSF]

I agree with both of you, but since they spent the time to make the picture, I thought I'd ask.

Mitch

[Tragic]

Well not everyone can jump right in at the 700 and up price point.
Very few actually in the grand scheme of things.
If it was well made, clearly differentiated from the higher end offerings and seen as a good value vs. price offering, it might be an "entry level" watch for the O7 line and bring customers wanting to "trade up" eventually?
Just a thought.

[Denizen]

add another vote to Pass. there's nothing special about this proposed model...it brings nothing new to the table and bringing it to market may hurt your long-term goals rather than enhance it.


I agree with both of you, but since they spent the time to make the picture, I thought I'd ask.

Mitch

[Peter Atwood]

Going for that case would not be going for your own vision. If it were my company I would pass.

[MitchSF]

Going for that case would not be going for your own vision. If it were my company I would pass.

I think you guys have confirmed our decision. This company also does custom projects, so maybe we'll ask them to bid on the LM-5, when the design contest ends.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Passssssssssssssssssssssss..... <| and is it me or does that not remind you of the new Enzo Mechana type case and bezel EM001 , which is high end.
Just wondering?
Robert

I think you guys have confirmed our decision. This company also does custom projects, so maybe we'll ask them to bid on the LM-5, when the design contest ends.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Yes, and also check the "Metal Band?" thread for the same watch from another brand. I met with the manufacturer in Hong Kong. Nice people. They won't say who they manufacture for, but it's obvious.

Most here are against the decision to make this watch.

Mitch

[Malyel]

I Pass. I am interested in the higher end projects and I think this would be a strategically poor decision. It all depends on what you want your brand to represent. I am noticing a seeming rush to get more watches on the market, which I understand, but in terms of your long term business plan is it really in your best interest. I guess you have to decide what Ocean7 is in terms of brand recognition.

One poorly designed product or quality escapement is carried by the brand. Take Orsa for example....is it swiss or is it asian or is it swaisan?

How do you want your brand to be recognized?

I was really surprised and confused by the discussion of this possible watch. :-S

Mitch, it seems like you were asking if anybody would be interested in a Sub $300 Ocean 7 watch made by the same company who makes the same case for several $1000 watches. (Enzo, Veta, Schaumburg) I find it funny that an Enzo owner voted to pass when it seems like to me you are asking if we want a similar made product at less than a third, or fourth of the price. :think: I really want to know what happened to all those people who were complaining when the LM-1 went from Asian production to Swiss production? O|

In my opinion, I think the watch would be very cool. I would buy one. :-! I would look for a few more opinions before abandoning this idea. I think some people don't realize that the watch would be made by the same company as those quality $1000 divers the only thing missing would be the extra $ margin.

[mr2blue]

I was really surprised and confused by the discussion of this possible watch. :-S

Mitch, it seems like you were asking if anybody would be interested in a Sub $300 Ocean 7 watch made by the same company who makes the same case for several $1000 watches. (Enzo, Veta, Schaumburg) I find it funny that an Enzo owner voted to pass when it seems like to me you are asking if we want a similar made product at less than a third, or fourth of the price. :think: I really want to know what happened to all those people who were complaining when the LM-1 went from Asian production to Swiss production? O|

In my opinion, I think the watch would be very cool. I would buy one. :-! I would look for a few more opinions before abandoning this idea. I think some people don't realize that the watch would be made by the same company as those quality $1000 divers the only thing missing would be the extra $ margin.

I understood Asian production to mean Miyota movements, so I think you misrepresent what I said in the context of what I was saying. A case is a case (sometimes), but I think an Ocean7 venture similar to the Orsa Asian watch which i thought was poorly constructed would indeed change the perception of the brand. Even though some of the Asian Orsa watches had swiss movements the construction of the bezel for example was cheesy

p.s. I would buy another Enzo in a heartbeat

[MitchSF]

Should we revisit this project? Many seem to like this watch under different brand names. I'm not crazy about the bezel, but there are other options. You can see them if you look around.

This is very easy to do. You basically pick the dial, hands, and bezel, make changes to the case that don't involve a new mold (like moving the crown, removing the crown guards, etc.), and place the order. Nothing like the LM-* projects. We can have this on order, in no time.

Mitch

[Serafino]

Should we revisit this project? Many seem to like this watch under different brand names. I'm not crazy about the bezel, but there are other options. You can see them if you look around.

This is very easy to do. You basically pick the dial, hands, and bezel, make changes to the case that don't involve a new mold (like moving the crown, removing the crown guards, etc.), and place the order. Nothing like the LM-* projects. We can have this on order, in no time.

Mitch

Personally, I'm not against Asian production if its executed properly. Sure, I'd prefer a custom design like your LM-1, but if you offer (as I'm sure you would) exceptional value in a Asian watch, I'm sure it would be a good move on your part in that you'd open a bigger market at a lower price point.

Many fairly new companies have done very well with 100% Asian watches. Look at the incredible success of Nixon, etc. The forum crowd is tough. Much tougher than the masses. I'd say go with your instincts especially if you can finance a run and don't require a pre-sale (or expressed forum interest) to get it off the ground.

BTW, what other "brands" are you referring to in your post. If they are very well received on their own merits, regardless of where they are produced, I'm sure a Ocean7 would be as well.

[MitchSF]

Hi Serafino,

Glad to see you back!

I'd rather not mention names, but if you compare the picture at the top of this thread to other watches that are popular on the forum these days, it will be obvious.

Water resistance is 1000m/3300ft.

Mitch

[Danny S]

Hi Serafino,

Glad to see you back!

I'd rather not mention names, but if you compare the picture at the top of this thread to other watches that are popular on the forum these days, it will be obvious.

Water resistance is 1000m/3300ft.

Mitch

The oddball (unique?) bezel in the illustration disguises the base watch pretty well (especially w/ it's signature crown guards removed), but the other "names" the basic watch is being sold under are rapidly gaining recognition largely on the back of this big solid hefty watch. Haven't read a single disparaging post due to it's asian origins.

If a more traditional bezel is available (the slotted bezel more often seen on this watch is off-putting to traditionalists) this affordable watch might well be a good idea.

JM2CW.. YMMV!

:-)

[MitchSF]

Danny - the manufacturer will make custom bezels. This bezel in the picture is the one they use on their sample watches. I've asked if they can make a 120 click bezel. The one I played with at the Hong Kong show was 60 clicks. I"m not sure if the "other" watches use 60 or 120 click bezels because I've never seen one of theirs.

When I spoke with the rep at the show, I told her that I like the watch, but not the crown guard. She remembered and made the CAD drawing without them. She left out the helium escape valve on the left side, by accident.

Mitch

I just received confirmation from the manufacturer that they can make the bezel 120 clicks. We're still not sure if we will do this project at all - just investigating.

One more thing - if we order today, delivery will be in February, using the SW 200 movement.

[Brad Trent]

Here's my gut reaction...adding a model simply because A.) You can get it produced cheaply, or B.) You feel you have to continually add new designs to remain "valid", is the wrong way to proceed. I honestly think more of the people reading this appreciate a higher-end product and that generally means a watch put together (note that I didn't stipulated MADE IN) in Europe. We've already knocked the idea around about if and when an Asian made product might lose the perceived taint of lower quality, so let's just agree that it still hasn't happened. The case, hands, dial, crystal and straps can all be sourced from Asia, but I still believe that unless the movement has that Swiss Made aura and the final product isn't made in either Switzerland or Germany, the watch will be looked at as simply another cheap timepiece. As for the bigger question of adding different models just for the sake if it, I believe that unless a new model addresses a need or fills a hole in your existing lineup, why bother? Tossing in a cheaper model that merely has a different bezel style doesn't make sense, no matter how cheaply you can get it done. The addition of an internal rotating bezel on the LM-2 is a funtional change over the LM-1 and that not only makes sense but shows a design strategy, not just a desire to sell watches.

Build the core, then go from there, but always remember that sometimes less can be more.

BT

[Malyel]

Hi Mitch,
I like the case. Throw a new bezel on it (think Girard Perregaux Sea Hawk II ) and it would be very cool. |> I like the existing bracelet that fits the case. |> I love the price. |> I suggest you make the watch with a PVD finish. :think: It would provide enough of a difference to draw new and existing owners to buy one. Get the cost of the watch with the steel PVD bracelet at $499 or $399 with the rubber strap and you will sell a ton of them. ;-) You also don't mention any particulars on the watch. Just put it out there let the quality speak for itself. :-! I figure a sub $400 1000m watch is like a hot dog, buyers do not want to know the details of where or how it's made. :-D

[Brad Trent]

Malyel offerred: '...I figure a sub $400 1000m watch is like a hot dog, buyers do not want to know the details of where or how it's made..."

Where are we...eBay?!! I don't know about you, but THIS buyer of 1000m watches, or of watches in general, kinda wants to know a little more about what's on my wrist than how much it costs. If I wanted a cheap watch, I'd buy a Timex. No, strike that...I'd just look at my cell phone for the time 'cuz I obviously don't really care that much!

BT

[Danny S]

Malyel offerred: '...I figure a sub $400 1000m watch is like a hot dog, buyers do not want to know the details of where or how it's made..."

Where are we...eBay?!! I don't know about you, but THIS buyer of 1000m watches, or of watches in general, kinda wants to know a little more about what's on my wrist than how much it costs. If I wanted a cheap watch, I'd buy a Timex. No, strike that...I'd just look at my cell phone for the time 'cuz I obviously don't really care that much!

BT

Think we're overlooking the fact this project was initiated on the principle of a high quality diver at a fantastic pricepoint. Although I have more than a couple of great divers.. I signed on sight-unseen to support anyone willing to offer a great value.

Plenty of divers out there with snob appeal if that's important, Brand P makes an annual killing selling watches to impress ad execs and boardroom partners. But THIS buyer appreciates a great DEAL everybit as much as a great WATCH. Plenty of NauticFish have been sold on ebay.. haven't heard any complaints re: value or quality yet.

Good to know there are all types of buyers out there!

:-!

*(..guess I'm just not one to attempt to influence other's decisions based upon my personal preferences or bias) :roll:

[Malyel]

[b] I don't know about you, but THIS buyer of 1000m watches, or of watches in general, kinda wants to know a little more about what's on my wrist than how much it costs. BT

Brad, I think you are guilty of assuming that a sub $400 watch is going to be cheaply made. :-( There are watch companies out there that use the same company as the one proposed to build their watches/cases. In fact, I think you own one of them.:think: Those companies sell their watches for $1000+. Do they cost $1000 to make? No they cost much less. Those companies also choose to keep their production details quiet. They let the quality of the product speak for itself. The reviews of these watches have been stellar. There is no reason to believe the Asian Ocean7 watch proposed would be any different. :think: It just seems to me the savings are being passed on to the buyer in this instance. :-!

[Tragic]

Well not everyone can jump right in at the 700 and up price point.
Very few actually in the grand scheme of things.
If it was well made, clearly differentiated from the higher end offerings and seen as a good value vs. price offering, it might be an "entry level" watch for the O7 line and bring customers wanting to "trade up" eventually?
Just a thought.

Wish I'd said this!

Oh wait.....

[Danny S]

Wish I'd said this!

Oh wait.....

Bravo!! Encore..encore..

:-) ;-) :-D :-! :thanks

[Brad Trent]

Malyel countered with: '...Brad, I think you are guilty of assuming that a sub $400 watch is going to be cheaply made..."

Ahhh...you're assuming things not yet entered into evidence, counsellor! I never said anything of the sort...I said there is a perceived taint of lower quality in an Asian manufactured watch. I don't make the news, I merely report it! You can't change how people feel. I'm sure a 1000m dive watch made for under 400 bucks could get the job done and last 50 years, but that does not necessarily make it a desirable product! I think Mitch and LaHugh are moving in the right direction with the models they have proposed. Doing a 180 and coming out with an Asian-produced model sends the wrong message to the people who are lining up to buy the first two models...is this a serious company interested in design innovation and quality manufacturing, or will they be one of the MANY companies putting out a mid-quality product that will hit a price-point not too objectionable to the masses?

BT

[mr2blue]

I actually completely agree with Brad Trent:rodekaart

[Malyel]

Doing a 180 and coming out with an Asian-produced model sends the wrong message to the people who are lining up to buy the first two models...is this a serious company interested in design innovation and quality manufacturing, or will they be one of the MANY companies putting out a mid-quality product that will hit a price-point not too objectionable to the masses?
BT

Brad,
Umm...Do you remember where the Ocean7 project started back in March? :think: It was with a sub $300 Asian made diver. If anything the 180 was when it was switched to a Swiss product. There was huge demand for the sub $300 watch and I still think demand remains. |>

I think Ocean7 is a serious company interested in design innovation and quality manufacturing. A sub $400 1000m diver made by the watch manufacture in question will not change that. If anything it will help Ocean7's reputation. They can make a kick ass Swiss model for $___ :gold and a kick ass Asian model for $___ :silver . A quality product at different price points for different budgets.

Brad, would a less expensive Asian model cause you to not buy the LM-1 or LM-2? I think the answer is no. A less expensive model is not going to lose customers it will only bring in more.

[Tragic]

"Let them eat cake"!

[MitchSF]

A few opinions:

If we do this, the watch we offer will be exactly the same quality as the "other" brands. Not better or worse. Owners appear to love its quality. I don't see that it would take away from our other watches. It will be much cheaper, and a good value for the money. If it's well liked, it may help sell our other products. It would also allow us to offer three different dive watches, by February.

Hypothetically speaking, if you buy a commodity for $1 and sell it for $13, at some point the market will step in, and a competitor will sell it for $3.99 or $4.99. This is not a custom designed watch like the LM-1 and LM-2, it's a commodity that we would merely be reselling. Nothing wrong with that, but it's in a different league, as far as it being a unique product. The only adavantage we have, is that we know who makes it!

Mitch

[setherd]

I say sell it. why not have two tiers, like lexus and toyota. Both good.
if it's crap don't sell it though, protect your brand

[MitchSF]

... would a less expensive Asian model cause you to not buy the LM-1 or LM-2? I think the answer is no. A less expensive model is not going to lose customers it will only bring in more.

This makes sense to me.

if it's crap don't sell it though, protect your brand

Absolutely, but it's been established by current buyers, that the quality is good. Of that we have no worries.

Mitch

[mike03]

I say go for it. I see nothing wrong with having high quality watches at different price points of styles and movements. There is clearly a market for $300-400 watches and some people simply cannot afford to buy an assortment of $700+ watches. Those people might not reside on this forum but trust me they are out there! If the object is to sell watches I see nothing wrong with reaching beyond these virtual walls and tapping into that market too. My two cents :-)

[Dean in Canuckistan]

I think the "for Asian production of a ~$3-400 diver" folks make good points.

I think the others are being elitists, personally.

A lower priced watch will bring in more customers in addition to those who can afford to more rare and custom made LM-Xs. If the quality is as good as suggested, then I see no reason for them to leave or to not upgrade to another Ocean7 in the future.

I know that the LM-Xs are a bit pricey for me, but that the picture at the top of this thread looks very promising at a price range that I can consider right now...

[Dean in Canuckistan]

Yes, and also check the "Metal Band?" thread for the same watch from another brand. I met with the manufacturer in Hong Kong. Nice people. They won't say who they manufacture for, but it's obvious.

Most here are against the decision to make this watch.

Mitch

Having just seen the watch in the "Metal Band" thread that appears to be based on this company's product along with another brand that appears to be using this case as well, I can't encourage you enough to go ahead with the plan to use this manufacturer. I think you would have something at a fairly low price point, including a swiss movement, that could compete with watches three times its price.

That to me sounds perfectly in line with the plans for Ocean7 being tossed about this forum - high quality, great looks, excellent value for money.

[bleddrewsoe]

Mitch, I think there are two schools of thought here....

There must be consideration to what offering a non-Swiss watch will do the reputation of a Swiss brand as Ocean7 decided to be:think: . My feeling is that the general public will be suspicious of the "Swiss Made" Ocean7 watches and that offering Asian models will dilute the Ocean7 brand. I'm not saying this would be a valid assumption, but remember perception is reality. If you look at the watch brands out there, the well respected brands(large or small) offer their watches from the same origin...Both Swiss and German companies that have the respect of the watch community offer all their timepieces as Swiss or German. The brands that do not do this and offer both Swiss, German & "who knows where it was made" watches generally have a lack of respect. Invicta and some of the Germasian brands come to mind ...:rodekaart
Now there is always an exception to the rule and if this watch is truly the same watch more or less as the watch in the "watch band" thread, I think you may be onto something|> . I really do not see the resemblance myself , but it could be that the bezel is throwing me off and the drawing is not that detailed. Again, if this really IS a sister design to the other brand, then I think you make this part of your offering at a lower cost, but have it as a stand alone Asian production model. Also, speaking of watch bands I think you would need to offer it with the same steel bracelet as that makes much of the look for the other piece.Just my .02

[Brad Trent]

bleddrewsoe offered: "...the general public will be suspicious of the "Swiss Made" Ocean7 watches and that offering Asian models will dilute the Ocean7 brand..." and. "...perception is reality...", and "...Invicta..."

That's all I'm sayin'!!!

Hell, I know you can make a great product in a cave in Kazahkstan, but we're talkin' about a fledgling company trying to make a name for themselves in the watch biz...diluting the brand before it get's outta the starting gate hardly seems like a wise business plan to me.

Now someone has already mentioned having two tiers, like Lexus and Toyota. Lets get real for a second...watch buyers are hardly looking for one company that does "everything". If Ocean7 makes a great "Swiss" dive watch, then the buying public looking for that kind of toy will line up and buy it. If they wanna make a great Chinese 1000m diver, then I'm sure there are just as many guys who will jump all over that too, but let's be very clear...I seriously doubt the guys who are buying the Swiss watch would have anything to do with the Chinese model. Call me short-sited, call me elitest, call me racist...I can take it! But I know a lotta watch-geeks and I know how they think.

BT

[Tragic]

Threads like this make me wish Wal-Mart and China would hurry up and finish conquering the universe.

[Malyel]

Brad,
Here is something I can not understand. You already own a watch whose roots are with the Asian manufacture in question, don't you? O| A watch that sells for 2x-3x the cost of the proposed Asian diver. If you are so against 1000m dive watches from this Asian company, why do you already own one? :rodekaart

You know the quality of this Asian manufacture is good. You mentioned how great and inexpensive their bracelet is. You even recommended it's use for the Swiss model. :think:

You say that the guys who buy the Swiss model will have nothing to do with the Asian mode. I can't disagree with you more. I am a watch nut. I own many Swiss watches and I am always looking for a great value in a watch. In my opinion, a watches cost or origin have no bearing on if the watch is a good watch. A $60 Casio G-Shock is a great watch and a $3000 Zenith el primero Chonograph is a great watch. If the quality is there it doesn't matter where the watch is made. :think: What's funny is the guys you say will avoid the Asian model are the same guys who are going to spend $1000 for a watch they think is Swiss when in fact it's made by the same Asian company in question. I can think of two guys already. :-D

I plan on buying both LM's and I would buy the Asian made model in a second. $3-$400 for a quality 1000m diver, where does the line form? |>

[Danny S]

Sorry to do such an abrupt about face here.. but I've been swayed by the well-reasoned replies I've been reading. I now agree all Ocean need offer are upscale, upmarket products. Better to forget all about the "high quality / low cost" concept that put Ocean on the map in the 1st place.

After a little market research I've come to realize that GM sells many more Caddys than Cavaliers.

Turns out BMW moves 4 or 5 times more 7series sedans than 3series variants.

Volkswagen had such great sales success moving upscale with it's Phaeton it still keeps examples in showrooms on display. (..even though production ceased two yrs ago.)

Good thing we've got advice coming from NYC.. 'cause lord knows the rest of the country follows their lead closely whenever possible.

Glad Mitch & LaHugh arent interested in sales volume. Long as the overwhelmingly large group of 'elitists" are happy, it'll be a job well done!

O|

[Brad Trent]

Daniel...sarcasm aside, you can keep the Cavalier, OK?!!

BT (NYC)

[Danny S]

Daniel...sarcasm aside, you can keep the Cavalier, OK?!!

BT (NYC)

Still in full sarcasm mode... as we say in the sticks, "Neyew Yorwuk Ceetee!?" B-)

Wife's from Brooklyn, guess I'll settle for my 3series coupe, only non-swiss diver I own is german.. but those are just my preferences.

That notwithstanding, I recognize there's a great volume of potential buyers seeking an "affordable" serious diver that would appreciate having a viable alternative to SEIKO. Willing to bet the bulk of us who "sold-out" Ocean's waiting list don't get to select which Panny they'll wear this morning? Hmmm.. PloProf, or Dweller?... Decisions, decisions.

I prefer my fillet med/rare. Doesn't mean I think the sales of hotdogs should be prohibited.

An "affordable" 1000m diver would just be a beater for many here... doesn't make it demeaning though.. doesn't mean we should restrict it's sales to young hourly wage earners who would like to have a decent divewatch also.

Fairly confident a consultant who advised a start-up watch company to jump right in and swim with the Panerai crowd would watch that fledgling firm get eaten up in short order.

Takes all kinds.. doesn't mean "..takes all kinds of "our kind!"

;-)

[NSG1Tausend]

Hi All at the risk of carrying this on any further, I have decided to chime.
I for one love 1000M divers,( I just ordered vanity plates labeled 1TAUSEND heck I even emailed Mitch and asked him to look at an 07 as a 1000M. ( yes it may well be a 1000$ watch) now it was not the Asian production, but that does not mean it(asian production) should not go ahead if they decide to, all reasons aside it is their decision.
I have read all the posts , and agree with many points.
Will I buy it? I dont know, maybe I would as a beater as mentioned, NOT withstanding it does not meet what I like or want in the 1000M design - clearly my view.
If Mitch and LaHugh decide to offer this watch at a lower price because the parts are less expensive and it is in the 1000M case , hey so be it.
This does not mean I wont buy the LM-1 or LM-2 , nor does it mean I won't look at the LM-5, or the next watch. What it does mean is that maybe someone else can get a watch that they like, from 07 and be happy. I have seen many criticisms from many forum members about one watch I did pay 2400 $US for , the Rasmus. I read all the time how it is not worth it, it is ugly, it is a ETA 2824-2 in a Fricker case, yea so what?
I like it, and I decided to pay the money needed to purchase it. I wear it all the time, no different than the Dreadnought is it? I would like the original on my wrist B-) but I cant bring my self to pay the 2200 - 3000 for it, yea I wish I could buy it for the original 799 or so, but hey I wont knock the ones that do pay what I paid for my Rasmus.
Ok enough said, the other week I posted how excited I was to see the LM-1 coming to fruition and being on our wrists soon, and the LM-2 coming soon, and Mitch did say yes "we are excited too, but it is only a watch", he did not mean anything mean or derogatory by it, just observing yes it is a watch. Lets remember that, in the end it is only a watch!

So in the end Mitch and Lahugh will decide what they will offer, they take all our thoughts and proceed.
Either way we win guys - we get a new company building watches and surely the will have 1 or 2 you may want to buy.
Thanks
Regards
Robert

[Serafino]

I'm not certain that the "general public" cares much about where a watch is made. I forgot to mention Technomarine in my earlier post, but its an example of a centimillion dollar company built primarily upon Asian production first, later migrating some watches to Swiss manufacture.

Look at Oakley's higher priced watches. Thousands sold based upon design and brand equity.

Mitch and LaHugh won't be able to please everybody, especially a demanding crowd like those on WUS, etc. However, you could argue that its in their best interests to launch the line and develop the brand based upon great value and design at the lowest possible price point regardless of point of manufacture. If they want to sell thousands and thousands of pieces (which means attracting customers from the general public) having two lines might be a good idea. After all, most people looking to spend $700 and up on a watch will most likely resort to the tried and true vs. any new brand.

I'd say follow your instincts and maybe do some market research outside of the "enthusiast" crowd which can be a bit elitist. I could be wrong, but it seems that a lot of private label clients of German or Swiss manufacturers primarily appeal to their own domestic markets which have a history of supporting domestic manufacturers in a manner different from the rest of us in North America.

[MitchSF]

I'm not certain that the "general public" cares much about where a watch is made.


I think this is an important point. We're far from the general public, as far as buying habbits go.

Mitch

[Malyel]

Another selling point for going forward with the Asian production is the there may be some out there who really like the dial and hands of the LM-1 but are turned off by the large aggressive lugs of the LM-1 and LM-2. I really like the lugs on the LM-1 and LM-2 but I have to admit they look very sharp in this one picture.
http://static.flickr.com/81/277679510_03ecadded7_o.jpg

[MitchSF]

$389 on strap, around $80 more on a band, possibly slightly higher. Maybe with a dark blue dial. What do you think?
Mitch

http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-6drawing.jpg

[bleddrewsoe]

$389 on strap, around $80 more on a band, possibly slightly higher. Maybe with a dark blue dial. What do you think?
Mitch



I think the crown looks a little funny because it does not not line up with the Helium release valve...on this model I would have the crown at the 3:00 position.

[MitchSF]

I think the crown looks a little funny because it does not not line up with the Helium release valve...on this model I would have the crown at the 3:00 position.

We came to the same conclusion. I think we'll have an updated CAD drawing tomorrow, including a blue dial.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

This project is a go! It will be called the LM-6, and 150 watches are on order. It will come with the silicone "PloProf" strap standard, and a band will be an option.

Mitch

[mr2blue]

Mitch,

Congrats

[Malyel]

Awesome News! Mitch you are slowly going to put me in the poor house. :-( I really hope it has a blue dial. Whatever you do though do not have those crown guards that some of the other models use. ;-)

[MitchSF]

Awesome News! Mitch you are slowly going to put me in the poor house. :-( I really hope it has a blue dial. Whatever you do though do not have those crown guards that some of the other models use. ;-)

Hi Cannon,

I HATE those crown guards!

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

First congrats on the LM-1 box looks great!:-!
Now I missed the LM-6 , what movt? Blue dial - YES!!!!!B-)
Where and when?
preorder?
Thanks Mitch and LaHugh
Robert


Hi Cannon,

I HATE those crown guards!

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Robert,

The LM-6 will use either the SW200 or 2824-2, whatever we can get first.

The first LM-1 watches will come in Pelican cases. It will take several months to get the wood boxes.

There will not be a special preorder price on the LM-6. I will take reservations as soon as the first production run of the LM-1 is successfully delivered. Until then, I am only taking LM-1 backorders.

Thanks,

Mitch

[migo]

In principle I'd consider a watch like that, but I think the design looks ugly. Admittedly I thought the same about the LM1 and the picture of it posted earlier looks a lot better than on the site.

You might actually consider playing around with the graphics of the banner and your website, the people who are happy with it won't complain if it's changed, but those, like me, who don't like the way it currently looks might be swayed by some better photography.

[MitchSF]

Sorry, I don't have time for any of that at the moment. The site is being professionally redesigned, and the watches will be photographed by a photographer. I doubt that anyone here will be influenced by better pictures, though.

Mitch

[migo]

I was, from the site I was wondering why I'd want the watch. The picture posted earlier had me thinking it actually looked cool.

[NSG1Tausend]

Hi Migo, you realize the pic from the site is the LM-1 not the LM-6 that this thread is about, just wondering- 2 different watches.
Regards


I was, from the site I was wondering why I'd want the watch. The picture posted earlier had me thinking it actually looked cool.

[MitchSF]

They used the wrong logo on this drawing and I think the blue dial may be a little too bright. I'm not sure if we will use a painted or annodized dial.
Mitch

http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-6drawing.jpg

[mr2blue]

Very BrightB-)

[Malyel]

Looks good, I think a blue dial Ocean7 will look great. The relocated crown is in a better location.

[MitchSF]

I agree that the crown didn't work at 4:00 on this model. I also had them change the crown at 3:00 to the same style as the one used at 11:00.

We're switching the blue color to Pantone 2756C. It's a darker blue.

Mitch

[Malyel]

I agree that the crown didn't work at 4:00 on this model. I also had them change the crown at 3:00 to the same style as the one used at 11:00.

We're switching the blue color to Pantone 2756C. It's a darker blue.

Mitch

Was the blue dial shown in the sketch Pantone 280C? :think:

Blue Color Tones (http://www.simon.ca/PANTONE2.htm)

[mr2blue]

Pantone 2756C. I like this blue much better. Good call:-!

[MitchSF]

Agreed. I think it will look much better.

I don't remember what the previous color was. I'll have to check my email on the laptop.

MItch

[Malyel]

Agreed. I think it will look much better.

I don't remember what the previous color was. I'll have to check my email on the laptop.

MItch

Don't waste your time Mitch. ;-) The new blue looks much better. :-)

[Brad Trent]

1. Is the case basically a re-worked Schaumburg/Nauticfish?

2. Have you considered an anthracite-like blue dial...something like this...

http://static.flickr.com/62/168398295_29cb9f964c_b.jpg


BT

[MitchSF]

Brad,

That's an annodized dial. It is an option we can do. I also asked the manufacturer for the difference in cost if we do this in titanium.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

I like that Mitch, similar to my Rasmus in colour.:-!
I also do like the dial Brad showed, yes a good idea for option.:-p
Great work.
:thanks
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/3hospitals/Rasmus/Rasmusonstrap-wristshot.jpg

[MitchSF]

Thanks, Robert. I think it will be a great watch for the price, but it is in no way an original design, except for the bezel. You know what I mean. It really is growing on me, especially at $375.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Hey I agree, but we need one like that. You remember my earlier post about the Asian production, well I am for a 1000M , of higher quality maybe someday. The neat thing for me is I am really hooked on the 07, I have ordered the LM-1 and asked you to keep me in mind for the LM-2 and do want a LM-6 and the LM-5 ( never seen a ceramic case) and it comes down to almost like Stephen and the Bathys, I just like them and your philosophy, banter, work ethic, design of watches, and need to move further in the manufacture of your lines. Yes I like the intro price for us, but like you said in an earlier post to a fellow about the pics on the web site, " your'e right it wont make any difference to the guys here who are in on the bottom floor we are in for many other reasons than pics posted there.
Keep us informed cant wait to see the 1st production LM-1 on line and in the post to me and the rest.
:thanks Mitch
Regards
Robert

Thanks, Robert. I think it will be a great watch for the price, but it is in no way an original design, except for the bezel. You know what I mean. It really is growing on me, especially at $375.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Speaking of the LM-5, we may have found our ceramic case manufacturer. That would be great news. It's a company I met at the HK fair that was in the process of upgrading their equipment.

The finish we will use is similar to a sand blasted pvd coated steel case, not the shiny ceramic that you see in Rado and other watches. The first ceramic watch will probably be a 42mm quartz model mosty because it's easier to manufacture, and after that, automatics.

The business has gone far beyond where LaHugh and I thought it would go, but the online open approach seems to be working out so far.

Mitch

[Malyel]

The first ceramic watch will probably be a 42mm quartz model mosty because it's easier to manufacture, and after that, automatics.


Hi Mitch,
I hope you consider using the ETA thermo-compensated Quartz Chronometer movement in the LM-5. I wonder how much more the T-C ETA is compared to one of the more common Ronda's. :think: I would guess it's double but I have no idea.
Cannon

[MitchSF]

Hi Mitch,
I hope you consider using the ETA thermo-compensated Quartz Chronometer movement in the LM-5. I wonder how much more the T-C ETA is compared to one of the more common Ronda's. :think: I would guess it's double but I have no idea.
Cannon

Hi Cannon,

The LM-5 will be mechanical. The LM-6 will use a quartz movement, but I'm not sure which one at the moment. Once a ceramic case supplier is locked in, I'll concentrate on that. I'd like to do a big date movement of some type.

Even if the TC movement is double the Ronda, it's so cheap that it doesn't make much difference. The nice thing about a cheap movement is that when it fails, you chuck it and install a new one. And the Ronda big date is nice and reliable.

Mitch

[Malyel]

Hi Cannon,

The LM-5 will be mechanical. The LM-6 will use a quartz movement, but I'm not sure which one at the moment.

:oops: I am getting my LM's mixed up. you know what I meant. ;-)

Can you do a Ronda big date with the date at 6 'clock?

[MitchSF]

:oops: I am getting my LM's mixed up. you know what I meant. ;-)

Can you do a Ronda big date with the date at 6 'clock?

Cannon,

I don't think Ronda has a movement with the date at 6, but we'll check around. Here is their site http://www.ronda.ch.

I was looking at the Powertech Big Date, model 519.

Mitch

[Malyel]

Not sure why I thought Ronda was spelled Rhonda. :rodekaart :-D

[MitchSF]

Me too. When I realized the mistake, I changed the whole thread. Maybe we both dated Rhondas at some point. My friend was engaged to one. When they broke up, she kept the ring.

Mitch

[Brad Trent]

You want Ceramic? I got yer Ceramic right here, Pal!!!

http://static.flickr.com/102/293480250_2ec10dd01c_b.jpg

I got to spend a couple of hours at Chanel on 57th Street today, so I figured I'd try on the Bling...surprisingly not heinous, if I do say so myself! And only 5800 zops!!!

BT

[Tragic]

Did it smell good Brad?

[Brad Trent]

I didn't notice a particular smell, but it did taste French!

BT

[MitchSF]

What do you think? We can make it with or without PVD. I dont' like the date window as it is here. It will be black with white letters, no frame.
Mitch

http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-6drawing1.jpg

[Malyel]

It will be black with white letters, no frame.
Mitch


Hi Mitch,
Will the watch come with a decoder ring to change the date letters into corresponding numbers? :-D Sorry, couldn't resist.;-)

I like the PVD'd bezel! That and the blue dial make it unique enough so they share the same overall look of the Ocean7 line but doesn't look like a 3rd party attempt to duplicate the LM-1 :think:

[MitchSF]

Hi Cannon,

Date letters? I see "28" in the date window. Am I missing something?

It looks like we have a major problem with movement availability. Guess I should have committed to this back in September, but who knew?

Mitch

[Malyel]

Date letters? I see "28" in the date window. Am I missing something?


Yes, you said the date would be black with white letters when I think you meant black with white numbers. :-D

[MitchSF]

Yes, you said the date would be black with white letters when I think you meant black with white numbers. :-D

I completely missed that! Guess it's too early in the morning.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Ok so it is a black date wheel with white numbers?|>
What does the watch look like with a non pvd bezel?:think:
When you say major problem with movt what does that mean for time
and proposed production, :-( and is there a back up?
Read the thread on the strap nice work Mitch, know what you mean the
silicone is comfy and needs to be thick at the lugs for rigidity, yes longer
thick springbars.

looking forward to the hands post.
:thanks great work Mitch!

Regards

[MitchSF]

Hi Robert,

I won't have answers until next week. The rest of the watch can be ready in no time, movements are the problem.

Sooner or later Seagull or another Asian company will produce a high quality 2824-2 substitute, then our problems are over (except the watch won't say, "Swiss Made", on the back). ETA is sure giving them and other manufacturers a big opening.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Other than making the tip of the second hand organge, I don't see anything else to change.

I am considering Swiss production - the price will increase by a little bit, but it may be worth the money. Movements are still a problem.

Mitch


http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-6final.jpg

[NSG1Tausend]

YES Mitch go for Swiss , please do.:-! Lets get it going!
It will be worth the money.
Movt ? see what youcan swing..........
Regards

Other than making the tip of the second hand organge, I don't see anything else to change.

I am considering Swiss production - the price will increase by a little bit, but it may be worth the money. Movements are still a problem.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

I think the price will increase to $395 for Swiss production, maybe slightly higher. I'm only waiting for more information on movements.

I was told again today that ETA is completely sold out of mechanical movements, at least 2824's, until 2008, and they could have sold triple their production. I'm not sure about the SW200.

We can bet the quality Asian manufacturers know this and will give strong competition next year, the only question is how their movements will be accepted. If we and other small manufacturers are desperate for movements, that may make it easier to accept them.

Mitch

[Denizen]

i don't have much interest in an LM asian model at the moment but since we're on the subject of future movements, i thought i would comment.

i've been seeing a few more watches sporting the sw200.

on the other hand, the miyota movements appear to be of passable quality but the big knock against them is that many only have a mediocre power reserve (33-38 hrs). i don't know about their higher end movements, but their 82xx and other mid-range calibers suffer from this problem. if future LM models will be sporting non-ETA movements by necessity then i would ask that the chosen movment have following the characteristics:

1) must have a good (44+ hr) power reserve
2) must have high degree of finish and materials used (chronometer-level or one step down)
3) must run reasonably accurate out of the box w/o having to be regulated
4) must be seconds hackable (another common failing with the cheaper Asian movements) and support manual wind
5) movement must be reasonably obtainable in the marketplace for long-term serviceability (possibly wishful thinking but i'm asking anyway :-) )


I think the price will increase to $395 for Swiss production, maybe slightly higher. I'm only waiting for more information on movements.

I was told again today that ETA is completely sold out of mechanical movements, at least 2824's, until 2008, and they could have sold triple their production. I'm not sure about the SW200.

We can bet the quality Asian manufacturers know this and will give strong competition next year, the only question is how their movements will be accepted. If we and other small manufacturers are desperate for movements, that may make it easier to accept them.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

i don't have much interest in an LM asian model at the moment but since we're on the subject of future movements, i thought i would comment.

i've been seeing a few more watches sporting the sw200.

on the other hand, the miyota movements appear to be of passable quality but the big knock against them is that many only have a mediocre power reserve (33-38 hrs). i don't know about their higher end movements, but their 82xx and other mid-range calibers suffer from this problem. if future LM models will be sporting non-ETA movements by necessity then i would ask that the chosen movment have following the characteristics:

1) must have a good (44+ hr) power reserve
2) must have high degree of finish and materials used (chronometer-level or one step down)
3) must run reasonably accurate out of the box w/o having to be regulated
4) must be seconds hackable (another common failing with the cheaper Asian movements) and support manual wind
5) movement must be reasonably obtainable in the marketplace for long-term serviceability (possibly wishful thinking but i'm asking anyway :-) )

Excellent points - I'll keep this for future reference. I'm not ready to accept Asian mechanical movements yet, for the reasons you mentioned.

I did some searching and found a 33 jewel model 888 mechanical movment which is the base for many Vacheron complications. I find it hard to believe that the base version of this movement, if it's even available to us, will be cost effective to use in the LM-6. Hopefully I'll have an answer by tomorrow as to what they meant when they suggested using a Swiss 888 movement.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

The movement proposed to us is the Claro 888. It is a Swiss made 18 jewel automatic movement. It was mentioned on another forum that it may have some relation to Miyota, but it is Swiss made. Apparently Zodiac uses it in some models.

We can try to get some 2824-2s or SW200s, but I don't know if it's even possible this year. If we use this movement, we can have the watches ready to sell in less than three months.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Hi Mitch , not to be a pain but I would rather wait for the 2824-2 or the aforementioned SW200'S , I just want to do it right:gold- sorry not interested in the Miyota not for this 07.
Can I ask- what is happening to the LM-2 what movt is it coming with- I thought the sw200 maybe higher grade?
BTW THE HANDS OF THE LM-1 LOOK AWESOME WAY TO GO!
Thanks Mitch
Robert

"We can try to get some 2824-2s or SW200s, but I don't know if it's even possible this year. If we use this movement, we can have the watches ready to sell in less than three months.

Mitch[/quote]"

[MitchSF]

Hi Robert,

I will have a picture of the LM-2 hand made sample case as early as next week. The SW200 movements are already allocated to us for this watch. The case will definitely be sandblased titanium, and it will be hardened.

The Claro 888 is Swiss. It is not a Miyota movement. It may be related, though. I don't know enough about it yet.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Mitch:thanks how do you say- oh yea wuhu! best expresses my feelings right now followed by :-p:-p:-p:-p
I knew in my gut when you started the LM-2 it would be a reality - a very beautiful reality- way to go!
Keep us informed on that beauty and the LM-1 and what you find on the LM-6 movt.
Regards
Robert

Hi Robert,

I will have a picture of the LM-2 hand made sample case as early as next week. The SW200 movements are already allocated to us for this watch. The case will definitely be sandblased titanium, and it will be hardened.

The Claro 888 is Swiss. It is not a Miyota movement. It may be related, though. I don't know enough about it yet.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

We will not use the CL888 at this time. I'm working with a Swiss company to provide the SW200 or 2824 movements (whatever they can get) and do the assembly, so the watch will be Swiss made. At this point everything depends on the costs. If the watch has to sell for the same price as the LM-1, I may as well do another custom watch instead of a common case with a custom bezel.

Mitch



http://ocean7watchco.com/LM-6final1.jpg

[NSG1Tausend]

Go for this Mitch AWESOME! Way to go.:-!
Robert

We will not use the CL888 at this time. I'm working with a Swiss company to provide the SW200 or 2824 movements (whatever they can get) and do the assembly, so the watch will be Swiss made. At this point everything depends on the costs. If the watch has to sell for the same price as the LM-1, I may as well do another custom watch instead of a common case with a custom bezel.

Mitch



http://ocean7watchco.com/LM-6final1.jpg

[mike03]

I love the dial and hands combo but not crazy about this case style. Also, I prefer a SS bezel instead of black. For LM-1 money, I agree some changes might be a good idea but thats just my two cents :-)

[MitchSF]

I love the dial and hands combo but not crazy about this case style. Also, I prefer a SS bezel instead of black. For LM-1 money, I agree some changes might be a good idea but thats just my two cents :-)

I agree that if it has to sell for the same money as the LM-1 (which is half what others are selling the same case for), I'd rather start from scratch and do something custom.

Mitch

[Malyel]

I agree that if it has to sell for the same money as the LM-1 (which is half what others are selling the same case for), I'd rather start from scratch and do something custom.

Mitch

If this model is scratched, I would love to see how a similar blue dialed LM-2 would look vs. an anthracite/grey color dial. With the upcoming Kobold Spirit of America also using a titanium/brushed finish dial, a blue dial might be a better initial LM-2 model. :think:

[MitchSF]

I was thinking of doing an anodized dark blue dial on the ceramic quartz model. The first quote came in today. Full production in 75 days! That's amazing. It's easy to get quartz movements. Mold charges are steep for ceramics. The Korean company wants $12,000, but there are other options.

Mitch

[Malyel]

It's easy to get quartz movements.

Hi Mitch,
Are you talking about ETA T-C quartz (COSC) or Ronda big date?

[MitchSF]

Hi Cannon,

That hasn't been decided yet, but probably the Ronda 519 big date. The movement is cheap as dirt and indestructable.

I'm not sure what the delivery time is on the ETA quartz movements, or the pricing. I'm waiting for that information. Funny, they password protect parts of their online catalog, including their better quartz movements.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Mitch, just checking, this is the LM-6 1000M thread right? But the threads were just talking about the LM-5 ceramic quartz right?
We are still going with Sw200 or ETA if we can get them right for the what was Asian LM-6 diver now to be swiss right?:think:

Robert


Hi Cannon,

That hasn't been decided yet, but probably the Ronda 519 big date. The movement is cheap as dirt and indestructable.

I'm not sure what the delivery time is on the ETA quartz movements, or the pricing. I'm waiting for that information. Funny, they password protect parts of their online catalog, including their better quartz movements.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Hi Robert,

I guess we should try to keep the different project discussions in separate threads.

Thanks for the reminder!

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Whew! you had me worried there, almost thought the big diver was now QUARTZ............:-( but it is'nt Wuhu :-!
I like the idea of the Ceramic as quartz, less maintenance etc and it could be thinner, but I would guess you are still talking a respectable what 12-13mm?
Thanks Mitch
Robert
Hi Robert,

I guess we should try to keep the different project discussions in separate threads.

Thanks for the reminder!

Mitch

[MitchSF]

It looks like this project will happen. We will use the SW200 movement. Unfortunately the price will be around $475, due to the movement availability issue and the Swiss assembly. I'll know definitely as early as tomorrow. We could still do the CL888 and Asian assembly at $375, but I think it's worth the extra $100 to do it this way.

Should we keep the PVD coated bezel?

Mitch

[Malyel]

Should we keep the PVD coated bezel?

Mitch

Hi Mitch,
As much as I love the look of the PVD'd bezel I am concerned about wear and tear on it.

I would think it would be cool if the watch would ship with both a silver and black bezel. That way an owner could take the watch to a watchmaker and have the bezel swapped if desired. Similar to what some did with the Kobold Seal and the replacement bezel fiasco.

[lenny]

It looks like this project will happen. We will use the SW200 movement. Unfortunately the price will be around $475, due to the movement availability issue and the Swiss assembly. I'll know definitely as early as tomorrow. We could still do the CL888 and Asian assembly at $375, but I think it's worth the extra $100 to do it this way.

Should we keep the PVD coated bezel?

Mitch

The cl888 appears to have some reliability problems, at least according to a few zodiac watch threads. Even though it's a bit more, I say go for the swiss production. I can't believe I am actually interested in swiss made watches...it's usually japanese or german for me. Can't wait for the lm-1 and I would be happy to pre-order the lm-6 as well.

edit- do you think ~$475 will be with the metal bracelet?

[NSG1Tausend]

Excellent Mitch!!!:-p :-!
Good idea of 2 bezels , and the cost is worth it, go SW200 -:think: 2 bezels good idea!
Super
Regards
Robert
It looks like this project will happen. We will use the SW200 movement. Unfortunately the price will be around $475, due to the movement availability issue and the Swiss assembly. I'll know definitely as early as tomorrow. We could still do the CL888 and Asian assembly at $375, but I think it's worth the extra $100 to do it this way.

Should we keep the PVD coated bezel?

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Excellent Mitch!!!:-p :-!
Good idea of 2 bezels , and the cost is worth it, go SW200 -:think: 2 bezels good idea!
Super
Regards
Robert

How's this - for $495, both bezels will be included! I spoke with the manufacturer about it, and ordering extra bezels at the same time gives us an excellent price advantage.

I just got off the phone with the Swiss supplier of movements and assembly. They have the movements committed to us for this project, but can't give us a delivery date until later this week. Cases will be finished in 60 days.

The contract is signed, and the money will be wired tomorrow.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

WuHu Mitch WuHu ! :-p If I was there I would shake your hand, damm it give you a round of applause |> |> |> |> |> |> - this is coming together wonderfully, unreal what a year and new year 2006 and 07 3 new watches coming !!!!!
Mitch way to go!!!!!!!
Regards
Robert
:gold :gold :gold
How's this - for $495, both bezels will be included! I spoke with the manufacturer about it, and ordering extra bezels at the same time gives us an excellent price advantage.

I just got off the phone with the Swiss supplier of movements and assembly. They have the movements committed to us for this project, but can't give us a delivery date until later this week. Cases will be finished in 60 days.

The contract is signed, and the money will be wired tomorrow.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Robert, it sure has been an interesting year. I think next year will be the year of the ceramic watch, at least for OCEAN7, with two models coming.

Mitch

[Malyel]

How's this - for $495, both bezels will be included!

Hi Mitch,
Great News! I think the dual bezel option makes this an even more exciting watch. Throw in the Swiss movement and assembly and I think it will be a real winner. :-!

[Tragic]

Mitch I see everything is pretty much worked out but I was wondering if you knew anything regarding this company and their movements?

http://www.technotime.com/mouv/mouv_e.html

120 hr. pwr reserve?

[MitchSF]

Mitch I see everything is pretty much worked out but I was wondering if you knew anything regarding this company and their movements?

http://www.technotime.com/mouv/mouv_e.html

120 hr. pwr reserve?

Hi Tragic,

I haven't heard of them, but I'll email one of our manufacturers to see if he knows anything about them. 120 hours is fantastic!

Mitch

[Brad Trent]

"...120 hours is fantastic!"

Yeah...why have I never heard of this company before?!! A 5-day power reserve? Sign me up! Is it too late to get these in the LM-1 and 2...?!! :think:

BT

[MitchSF]

Here's the answer I got from the Swiss - very expensive. The cost of the watch would increase by about $250, and delivery times for the movement are very long. I did ask if we can offer it as an option. If it can be installed in an existing case, maybe with a different movement spacer, it would be something to consider. Otherwise at this point I would not make a separate case for this movement.

Mitch

[Brad Trent]

If that's the case, then I think we're talkin' about a Special Edition "Desk Diver" in Platinum, White Gold or some other form of Unobtanium sometime in the future...the LM-20 SE...engraved casebacks with the name of the owner (a la PAM 195)...custom case made of 500 year-old teak...strap made of humanly-killed Venezuelan Beaver???

BT

[MitchSF]

Great idea, Brad. I just read the supplier's email and he too suggested a limited edition using that movement. I think the manual version in the ceramic case would be a killer. I think we'll have to pass on the Venezuelan beaver.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Since this project is now a reality, I have closed the thread and opened a new one called, "LM-3 Discussion."

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

OK so Mitch you knew the next question was, and I know you may not know the answer yet, but what bracelet? and how much? butterfly ? or diver clasp?:think:
Great Mitch :-! :thanks
Robert
Since this project is now a reality, I have closed the thread and opened a new one called, "LM-3 Discussion."

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Hi Robert,

The bracelet will be the same one used on the "other" watches. I'll upload a drawing soon.

Mitch

[mike03]

Mitch, the CAD drawing of the bezel looks great! Is the watch sold with both the black and SS bezels or a choice of one or the other? If its been mentioned, I dont recall :-)

[MitchSF]

Mitch, the CAD drawing of the bezel looks great! Is the watch sold with both the black and SS bezels or a choice of one or the other? If its been mentioned, I dont recall :-)

Mike,
The watch will come with both bezels, pvd and stainless. The bezel must be changed by a watchmaker. It's not something an owner should attempt.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Thank you Mitch, that will be great, even not seeing the drawing, and I know the "other " you mean I will be taking one. Also I like that you are giving us the chanace to have a bezel of choice installed for shipping.
Regards
Robert
Hi Robert,

The bracelet will be the same one used on the "other" watches. I'll upload a drawing soon.

Mitch

[Nighthawk]

Mitch, I'm confused (fairly normal for me...). You started out by saying that the proposed LM-6 would have either a 2834-2 or SW200 movement (both obviously automatics...), then a few days ago, talked about the LM-5 having an automatic movement and the LM-6 having a quartz movement. Can you clarify? Also, if the LM-6 is going to be limited to 150 watches, when and how will we be able to pre-order if we're interested? :thanks

[MitchSF]

Mitch, I'm confused (fairly normal for me...). You started out by saying that the proposed LM-6 would have either a 2834-2 or SW200 movement (both obviously automatics...), then a few days ago, talked about the LM-5 having an automatic movement and the LM-6 having a quartz movement. Can you clarify? Also, if the LM-6 is going to be limited to 150 watches, when and how will we be able to pre-order if we're interested? :thanks

Nighthawk,

It's me, not you. The business plan has been evolving - obviously, but it is fairly firm now. Here's the model lineup, all in one place:

LM-1 coming in about two weeks. 150 coming in, around 40 available due to 13 cancelations, and 37 no responses.

LM-2 SW200, hardened titanium, internal rotating bezel, sample should be hear in a week or two, watch in Feb. 150 on order

LM-3 SW200, 1000m, first Asian proposal, then LM-6, now called LM-3. Standard case (most know who else uses it), but with a custom designed bezel, dial, and hands. Comes with both stainless and pvd bezels. Here in Feb. $499, and only 100 have been ordered. Bracelet optional - not sure how much yet. 100 on order, 50 bracelets

LM-4 Ceramic quartz, 42mm, probably Ronda big date, 24mm lug spacing. February delivery. Probably 200 on order, will know for sure later this week.

LM-5 Ceramic 6497 manual wind, possibly with TT718 option later on (120 hours, with power reserve indicator for a lot more money), carbon fiber dial, no rotating bezel.

All watches are Swiss made.

Preorders for the LM-2 will start just after the LM-1 is delivered. Preference will go to LM-1 owners for all preorders. I think you will be extremely happy with the price. No preorders for the LM-3, but preference will go to LM-1 owners, and with 100 on order, everyone who wants one will get one. Not sure about the LM-4 or 5 yet.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Wuhu Mitch !!!!!:-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-! :-!
This is great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!B-) :-) :-)
Regards
Robert
Nighthawk,

It's me, not you. The business plan has been evolving - obviously, but it is fairly firm now. Here's the model lineup, all in one place:

LM-1 coming in about two weeks. 150 coming in, around 40 available due to 13 cancelations, and 37 no responses.

LM-2 SW200, hardened titanium, internal rotating bezel, sample should be hear in a week or two, watch in Feb. 150 on order

LM-3 SW200, 1000m, first Asian proposal, then LM-6, now called LM-3. Standard case (most know who else uses it), but with a custom designed bezel, dial, and hands. Comes with both stainless and pvd bezels. Here in Feb. $499, and only 100 have been ordered. Bracelet optional - not sure how much yet. 100 on order, 50 bracelets

LM-4 Ceramic quartz, 42mm, probably Ronda big date, 24mm lug spacing. February delivery. Probably 200 on order, will know for sure later this week.

LM-5 Ceramic 6497 manual wind, possibly with TT718 option later on (120 hours, with power reserve indicator for a lot more money), carbon fiber dial, no rotating bezel.

All watches are Swiss made.

Preorders for the LM-2 will start just after the LM-1 is delivered. Preference will go to LM-1 owners for all preorders. I think you will be extremely happy with the price. No preorders for the LM-3, but preference will go to LM-1 owners, and with 100 on order, everyone who wants one will get one. Not sure about the LM-4 or 5 yet.

Mitch

[04lund2025]

Nighthawk,

It's me, not you. The business plan has been evolving - obviously, but it is fairly firm now. Here's the model lineup, all in one place:

LM-1 coming in about two weeks. 150 coming in, around 40 available due to 13 cancelations, and 37 no responses.

LM-2 SW200, hardened titanium, internal rotating bezel, sample should be hear in a week or two, watch in Feb. 150 on order

LM-3 SW200, 1000m, first Asian proposal, then LM-6, now called LM-3. Standard case (most know who else uses it), but with a custom designed bezel, dial, and hands. Comes with both stainless and pvd bezels. Here in Feb. $499, and only 100 have been ordered. Bracelet optional - not sure how much yet. 100 on order, 50 bracelets

LM-4 Ceramic quartz, 42mm, probably Ronda big date, 24mm lug spacing. February delivery. Probably 200 on order, will know for sure later this week.

LM-5 Ceramic 6497 manual wind, possibly with TT718 option later on (120 hours, with power reserve indicator for a lot more money), carbon fiber dial, no rotating bezel.

All watches are Swiss made.

Preorders for the LM-2 will start just after the LM-1 is delivered. Preference will go to LM-1 owners for all preorders. I think you will be extremely happy with the price. No preorders for the LM-3, but preference will go to LM-1 owners, and with 100 on order, everyone who wants one will get one. Not sure about the LM-4 or 5 yet.

Mitch

Things looking fantastic!!!!! Big :thanks for the update Mitch!!!

Stephen

[Tragic]

Mitch, perhaps a single thread, locked, with pics/specs/availability of all the firmed up models?
It would help clear things up for us poor befuddled number overloaded ppl like me!

[MitchSF]

Mitch, perhaps a single thread, locked, with pics/specs/availability of all the firmed up models?
It would help clear things up for us poor befuddled number overloaded ppl like me!

Hi Tragic,

That's a very good idea. I've been answering questions for the last few days because of the confusion. The new web site will solve these problems, so maybe a locked thread with a link to it will work as well, that way I won't have to keep the information updated in several places, and we can use the forum just for discussion. The new site will be ready next month.

Thanks,
Mitch

[Denizen]

LM-3 SW200, 1000m, first Asian proposal, then LM-6, now called LM-3. Standard case (most know who else uses it), but with a custom designed bezel, dial, and hands. Comes with both stainless and pvd bezels. Here in Feb. $499, and only 100 have been ordered. Bracelet optional - not sure how much yet. 100 on order, 50 bracelets

Mitch, when you say that all the LM watches are 'Swiss Made' - can you elaborate on this in regards to the LM-3 specifically?

the SW200 movement is swiss-made, correct?
the watch case, strap/bracelet is asian-built?
the assembly of the watch is in Switzerland?

[MitchSF]

Mitch, when you say that all the LM watches are 'Swiss Made' - can you elaborate on this in regards to the LM-3 specifically?

the SW200 movement is swiss-made, correct?
the watch case, strap/bracelet is asian-built?
the assembly of the watch is in Switzerland?

Hi Denizen,

The answer to all your questions is, "yes."

That qualifies the watch to be called, "Swiss Made." I think you would be surprised at the number of watches even in the $2500 range that follow the same process, using Asian cases. Of course the manufacturers will never admit to it.

You can verify this at the Swiss Watch Federation web site.

In fact, if you check Ronda's web site, you will see that they offer a Swiss assembly option for just this purpose. We use another company, but it's the same thing.
http://ronda.ch/e/index_montage.html

Mitch

[Denizen]

thanks for clearing that up, Mitch.

Hi Denizen,

The answer to all your questions is, "yes."

That qualifies the watch to be called, "Swiss Made." I think you would be surprised at the number of watches even in the $2500 range that follow the same process, using Asian cases. Of course the manufacturers will never admit to it.

You can verify this at the Swiss Watch Federation web site.

In fact, if you check Ronda's web site, you will see that they offer a Swiss assembly option for just this purpose. We use another company, but it's the same thing.
http://ronda.ch/e/index_montage.html

Mitch

[Echizen]

Hey guys, newbie here. First, I wanted to say that Mitch, your models look very promising, and it was my interest in the company and its watches which made me join the forum! I am particularly interested in the lm3 and lm5 models.

I have a question regarding the LM3 though... I saw that the watch will be shipped with a SS and a pvd coated bezel. I looked at the images in the "Plans and Pictures" thread, and was slightly confused as to what the SS bezel will look like. Will it be like that of the Very last picture, with an insert, or will it be a solid SS piece like the first CAD drawing? If it's the insert version, will there be an option of having a solid SS piece, similar to the other watches that use this case? Don't know about the others, but I prefer the solid SS (if you haven't figured it out by now!).

Cheers.

[MitchSF]

Welcome, Echizen.

I have a set of plans for the case, and it looks like the bezel is one part made out of steel. The inner sandblasted and outer brushed bezel are one piece unlike the LM-1, where the inner bezel is part of the case. The reason for this is that on the LM-3, the crystal is screwed in place by a threaded ring under the inner part of the bezel, where the LM-1 crystal is pressed in place so it does not need room for a ring. It has to be done this way because of its 1000m waterproof rating.

Both bezels will be included with the watch, and either one will be installed before the watch is shipped.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

:thanks for the update Mitch, sounds great.
Can't wait to get my 07, the banner is really getting the 07:-p " love those watches" hard to control.:-D
Regards
Robert
Welcome, Echizen.

I have a set of plans for the case, and it looks like the bezel is one part made out of steel. The inner sandblasted and outer brushed bezel are one piece unlike the LM-1, where the inner bezel is part of the case. The reason for this is that on the LM-3, the crystal is screwed in place by a threaded ring under the inner part of the bezel, where the LM-1 crystal is pressed in place so it does not need room for a ring. It has to be done this way because of its 1000m waterproof rating.

Both bezels will be included with the watch, and either one will be installed before the watch is shipped.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Welcome, Echizen.

I have a set of plans for the case, and it looks like the bezel is one part made out of steel. The inner sandblasted and outer brushed bezel are one piece unlike the LM-1, where the inner bezel is part of the case. The reason for this is that on the LM-3, the crystal is screwed in place by a threaded ring under the inner part of the bezel, where the LM-1 crystal is pressed in place so it does not need room for a ring. It has to be done this way because of its 1000m waterproof rating.

Both bezels will be included with the watch, and either one will be installed before the watch is shipped.

Mitch

I'm wrong again. The manufacturer said that they will not use an insert on the pvd bezel because inserts are glued in place and sooner or later, they will fall off. In the future we are limited to available pvd colors which include black, rose gold, gold, or dark gray. That's fine with me.

Mitch

[Echizen]

Thanks for the update! No insert sounds good to me!

[MitchSF]

The metal band will add $90 to the cost of the watch. I only ordered 50, but from the mail I've received, it appears that most people will order one, so I'll increase the quantity to 90.

Mitch

[Denizen]

it's off-topic but since we're dicussing bracelets...

Mitch, is there any development on getting bracelets for the LM-1?

the topic was mentioned a while back but we haven't gotten any updates from you about this.

???

The metal band will add $90 to the cost of the watch. I only ordered 50, but from the mail I've received, it appears that most people will order one, so I'll increase the quantity to 90.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

it's off-topic but since we're dicussing bracelets...

Mitch, is there any development on getting bracelets for the LM-1?

the topic was mentioned a while back but we haven't gotten any updates from you about this.

???

Hi Denizen,

I'm looking to source an Asian mesh bracelet. European mesh bracelets are too expensive for me to sell with a $699 watch. I'll put more time into this next month.

Mitch

[Denizen]

asian is fine...as long as the finish matches the watch. brushed...i hope.

i have a Schauer artus bracelet which i've been meaning to pair with my rasmus but i need to send it away for sandblasting and i'm just too darn lazy to box it up and make arrangements. someday...

Hi Denizen,

I'm looking to source an Asian mesh bracelet. European mesh bracelets are too expensive for me to sell with a $699 watch. I'll put more time into this next month.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

asian is fine...as long as the finish matches the watch. brushed...i hope.

i have a Schauer artus bracelet which i've been meaning to pair with my rasmus but i need to send it away for sandblasting and i'm just too darn lazy to box it up and make arrangements. someday...

Yes, it will match the LM-1 and hopefully LM-2 in titanium, of course. I hired an agent to manage production of the LM-4 and LM-5 cases, and I just had the bright idea to ask him to source bracelets. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. It's right up his alley.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

The latest pic of the LM-3 looks awesome Mitch.:-! |>
Regards
Robert
Yes, it will match the LM-1 and hopefully LM-2 in titanium, of course. I hired an agent to manage production of the LM-4 and LM-5 cases, and I just had the bright idea to ask him to source bracelets. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. It's right up his alley.

Mitch

[Brad Trent]

Sorry boys, but the LM-3 CRIES out for the black bezel!!!

I has spoke!

BT

[MitchSF]

Sorry boys, but the LM-3 CRIES out for the black bezel!!!

I has spoke!

BT

Hi Brad,

That's why you get both!

BTW, we may use a 2824-2 in this watch instead of the SW200. Whatever we can get we'll use, and it looks now like the 2824-2 is the winner. It really doesn't matter much.

Mitch

[mr2blue]

Yes, it will match the LM-1 and hopefully LM-2 in titanium, of course. I hired an agent to manage production of the LM-4 and LM-5 cases, and I just had the bright idea to ask him to source bracelets. I don't know why I didn't think of that before. It's right up his alley.

Mitch

The Artus bracelet is 22MM and the LM-1 has 24MM lugs. I don't think it is going to work

[Malyel]

Sorry boys, but the LM-3 CRIES out for the black bezel!!!

I has spoke!

BT

Brad,
It pains me when your right but the black bezel looks the best. I would bet Ocean7 diehards will choose to have the watch come with the black bezel. This gives it the most unique look. While those who missed out on the LM-1 might go for the silver bezel. I am really looking forward to buying this watch! :-!

[NSG1Tausend]

I dont disagree at all, but the choice to change bezels is fantastic!:-!
I think the LM-3 will ( unfortunately only 100) be a collectors pce for 07 die hard fans- great to see either movt Mitch super!|>
Regards
Robert
Brad,
It pains me when your right but the black bezel looks the best. I would bet Ocean7 diehards will choose to have the watch come with the black bezel. This gives it the most unique look. While those who missed out on the LM-1 might go for the silver bezel. I am really looking forward to buying this watch! :-!

[MitchSF]

I dont disagree at all, but the choice to change bezels is fantastic!:-!
I think the LM-3 will ( unfortunately only 100) be a collectors pce for 07 die hard fans- great to see either movt Mitch super!|>
Regards
Robert

Robert, 100 is the first order. There will be more, as long as it sells well.

Keep in mind that you should use a press to change bezels, and they are not designed to be repeatedly removed and reinstalled. This should be done by a watchmaker.

Mitch

[Echizen]

Just saw the most recent drawing. It looks amazing! i totally love the SS bezel. when can we order this baby?!

[MitchSF]

Hi Echizen,

We won't take preorders on this watch, but there will be one for you and anyone else here who wants one.

By the time the watch is ready to go, I hope to have two types of packaging for every watch - luxury and tactical. The luxury packaging will include a wood box and leather strap, and tactical will include a Pelican case and silicone PloProf strap. Of course, mixing and matching is fine too, and the bracelet is available either way.

Not that it makes much difference, but we will use a 2824-2, not an SW200. The manufacturer found 100 2824-2's on the "spot" market for us, no other reason.

Mitch

[Malyel]

Hi Mitch,

I really like the look of the new hands on the LM-3. :-! Is the open space that looks blue on the hands cut out and we are seeing the dial or is it painted blue? I hope it is a true skeleton hand.

Will the case back feature a similar design/layout of the LM-1 and LM-2 or something new?:think:

[MitchSF]

Hi Mitch,

I really like the look of the new hands on the LM-3. :-! Is the open space that looks blue on the hands cut out and we are seeing the dial or is it painted blue? I hope it is a true skeleton hand.

Will the case back feature a similar design/layout of the LM-1 and LM-2 or something new?:think:

Hi Cannon,

They are skeleton hands. I wanted to do something a little different from the LM-1&2. The case back will be a little different, too.

Mitch

[Malyel]

Hi Mitch,

Is it too early to speculate the arrival order of the LM-2 and LM-3? On the Ordering, Availability and Announcements thread both say delivery in March. :think:

[MitchSF]

Hi Cannon,

I just received notice today that the LM-3 sample will be shipped soon, so we are on schedule for March delivery.

The LM-2 should also be available in March. The LM-2 manufacturer will be in town on Monday, and I will have more details.

Of course if parts are rejected or delayed, that can affect delivery.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Samples cases are on the way, one to me, and one to the Swiss manufacturer. I will post pictures as soon as I assemble the watch.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

That is great news Mitch , thanks will be waiting to see your post.
BTW your new camera is taking great pictures.
Regards
Robt
Samples cases are on the way, one to me, and one to the Swiss manufacturer. I will post pictures as soon as I assemble the watch.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

Hi Robert. Definitely an improvement, but not yet Brad quality.

Mitch

[lockwood1]

I'm definitely interested in this one:-!

[MitchSF]

The sample case will be here tomorrow! I'll install the movement as soon as it arrives, and I should have pictures after lunch. I'm not sure if they were able to send the pvd bezel, but their standard five link band is included.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

Hi Mitch
Wuhu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yea|> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |> |>
Regards
Robt
The sample case will be here tomorrow! I'll install the movement as soon as it arrives, and I should have pictures after lunch. I'm not sure if they were able to send the pvd bezel, but their standard five link band is included.

Mitch

[Echizen]

sounds good sounds good. can't wait!