Design exercise

[MitchSF]

This is simply an idea, don't expect to see it.

Specs are as follows:

46mm
2893-2 GMT (I know, the GMT hand is not on the drawing)
Lug width 22/24/26mm (Yes, that's correct. Three sets of lug bars come with the watch. Removing two allen or torx screws from the bottom of the case allow the lug bars to be changed.)

This is a hommage to aircraft instruments. Any other similarity is purely coincidental.



http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-6a.jpg

[MitchSF]

http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-3b.jpg

[Denizen]

can't say that there anything about this design that appeals to me:

too large
hate the square case - after the intial novelty wears off, it would look strange on the wrist esp my small one
similar design released by several manufacturers - none of them imo were appealing
orange color is a bad choice
adjustable lugs is a feature that i wouldn't need to care about


http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-3b.jpg

[GloriaRedStang]

Bell & Ross made the original, then Steinhart did their copy, and then recently In -sert your insult here- cta did theirs. I don't think O7 should, too.

I think it's OK to do "re-mixes" or re-interpretations of the Submariner/SeaDweller or PloProf, and maybe a few other icons of horology. Copying anything less would just be exactly what you're calling this: a design exercise. And if you're selling a design exercise (and I know, Mitch, that you've already made the caveat that it won't see production) to the public, I think that dilutes your brand.

It's not that I dislike square cases, and in fact, I like the BR01. It's pretty nifty (saw it in person once and briefly drooled) but this comment is out of concern for the O7 brand.

[psikat]

Mmmmm.......I am not sure if design similarities would be viewed as coincidental:-) . It screams B&R IMHO.

[mr2blue]

Just my opinion, but that is as ugly as a dogs d___k

[MitchSF]

Just my opinion, but that is as ugly as a dogs d___k

Very funny! I appreciate the comments. No, this won't turn into a real watch. A square case with a rotating bezel doesn't seem to work at all.

I do think it's important to keep trying different ideas because once in a while they work out. The LM-2 started this way.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

I was thinking that the idea of this case is more interesting than the reality of wearing it on a daily basis.

Does anyone have experience with a case like this? It can also be made in a much smaller size, like 40mm, but that may not change the reality that it won't be good to wear.

Mitch

[GloriaRedStang]

Yes, don't let us douse your creative efforts!

As for a 40 mm, I've seen others say they'd be more interested in the BR01/Steinhart Aircraft/Invicta Instrument if it were smaller than their current 46mm.

[NSG1Tausend]

Mitch dont ever stop the creative juices from coming, they will carry you forward and up, it is so important to be thinking , vamping, and asking for ideas and opinions way to go!
Regards
Robt
This is simply an idea, don't expect to see it.

Specs are as follows:

46mm
2893-2 GMT (I know, the GMT hand is not on the drawing)
Lug width 22/24/26mm (Yes, that's correct. Three sets of lug bars come with the watch. Removing two allen or torx screws from the bottom of the case allow the lug bars to be changed.)

This is a hommage to aircraft instruments. Any other similarity is purely coincidental.



http://www.ocean7watchco.com/LM-6a.jpg

[Malyel]

I really like the design. |> While it shares similarities with other watches, it still is able to stand alone with the adjustable size lugs and GMT movement. :think:

I really like the orange lume dial, date wheel and skeleton hands. :-! If nothing else, I think a special PVD'd edition of the upcoming LM-1 or LM-2 would look great with this dial and hand set. I would personally be willing to spend $1000 for a LE like this in a numbered edition of 50 or less.:think:

I would love to see someone photoshop the LM-2 case with this orange lumed dial and hands. :-)

[MitchSF]

Hi Cannon,

I like the idea of using this treatment on other models, but as I mentioned, we can't use dark orange luminova on skeleton hands because it doesn't glow very well.

Unfortunately a liminted edition of 50 won't work without regular production. Case manufacturers will barely talk to you if your order quantity is 100 cases. They really want to sell you 300 or more.

Mitch

[Malyel]

Hi Cannon,

I like the idea of using this treatment on other models, but as I mentioned, we can't use dark orange luminova on skeleton hands because it doesn't glow very well.


That's a shame. :-( One of my best lumed watches is a custom full dial orange lumed watch from Kent Parks at Everest. In daylight it looks very orange at night it looks VERY yellow.

I have nicknamed this watch "The Sun".:-d

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/Malyel/P1010006.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/Malyel/P1010003.jpg
The other watches pictured are mostly C3 and one C1.
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/Malyel/explorer-collection-lume-1.jpg

[MitchSF]

Very nice dial!

Here's some info on Luminova:

http://www.rctritec.com/index.php?id=17

Mitch

[Malyel]

Very nice dial!

Here's some info on Luminova:

http://www.rctritec.com/index.php?id=17

Mitch

Thanks Mitch.

Their color chart is too small. Here is a better look at Super LumiNova lume colors. Looking at their website it looks like they make SL.
http://www.everestwatchworks.com/images/sl_matte.jpg
http://www.everestwatchworks.com/images/sl_lume.jpg

[ISAIL]

The second picture is a GREAT idea for a desk clock! Add an alarm and you've got a great travel clock! If you make it as a wristwatch I'll... I'll... I'll... Be dissapointed and embarrassed for you. :-d

I'm serious about the desk clock with alarm though. Make the bezel a countdown, and have an alarm go off at zero and you'll sell... I'll bet you'll sell... At least one. :-d

[srh_pres]

I really like the design. |> While it shares similarities with other watches, it still is able to stand alone with the adjustable size lugs and GMT movement. :think:

I really like the orange lume dial, date wheel and skeleton hands. :-! If nothing else, I think a special PVD'd edition of the upcoming LM-1 or LM-2 would look great with this dial and hand set. I would personally be willing to spend $1000 for a LE like this in a numbered edition of 50 or less.:think:

I would love to see someone photoshop the LM-2 case with this orange lumed dial and hands. :-)

Well here's a very rough LM-1 PVD with the dial and hands...

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m65/srh_pres/LM-1PVDLE-1.jpg

[conorb]

I've tried on both the 46mm and 42mm B&R's and they just don't do it for me. I have a large wrist and wear other large watches and maybe it's just the square case or something, but it looks really out of place on one's wrist at that size. Overall, I liked the Tag Monaco much better - but don't own one.

You might try more of a cushion case design or even something a little more geometrically structured but with more sides (like Inge or AP) or even a non-square design.

I realize it's a homage to aircraft instruments, but, unfortunately most of don't spend a lot of time with aircraft instruments.

I like the pvd design and wouldn't mind getting a pvd or ceramic watch some day.

conorb

[MitchSF]

Thanks for the comments. I have never tried one in 46 or 42mm. It is possible that this design would sell very well outside the forum, but I'm not sold on it, even with a different dial.

I do want to try a modern interpretation of the PloProf, but I'm not sure how well that would sell to the general public. Interest here certainly isn't enough to support the development of a completely new specialty case design project such as that.

Mitch

[MitchSF]

This piece can be made in 40mm, but we're not doing it now.

Mitch

[Nalu]

All IMO:

1. The case works better without the bezel.
2. For an aircraft clock homage, I think different hands would work much better. I've got at least one clock at home (of an Mi-17) and a couple of other instruments. I could post some pics if you need me to Mitch.
3. Same deal with the dial. A/C clocks tend to use numbers for a reason. When you're in an unusual attitude, markers can be misinterpreted. It doesn't seem to make sense until you've tried it, but it's true.
4. 40mm is a little small for a large watch (if that makes sense), 42 might be better.
5. Something like this with an alarm (and GMT?) would be awesome and guaranteed to make a splash for O7!

One of the criticisms I've read of Ocean 7 (elsewhere, obviously) is that no chances are being taken. I prefer conservative designs, quite honestly, but a number of WISs out there really want to see something new - much easier said than done. I also understand how difficult it is for a new company to take a gamble on an off-the-wall design: getting stuck with a hundred watches that you can't give away is a major business problem for a small company.

As far as a re-make of the PloProf goes: if well-executed (i.e. faithful to the original but with modern materials - think PRS-17 and -18), I could sell 50 in a day Mitch. There are more guys out there than you might think and current PloProf prices are entirely unreasonable.

[MitchSF]

Hi Colin,

I appreciate your comments. Regarding the PloProf, I guess we could do a hommage which would be a copy, or maybe something inspired by the PloProf, but with OCEAN7 design elements. I lean toward the latter. Drawings are being done now, and we'll see where it goes. Maybe another company will make a close copy, but it's just not something I want to do, even if it would sell well.

Same with this design exercise. I understand what you say regarding the use of numbers on aircraft dials, but this is a watch, so I don't think it really matters here. I do agree that 42mm is probably a better size for this watch, but at the moment it's academic because this won't happen now. We can revisit this design in the summer and we'll see. Sales of other models will certainly influence how much of a chance I would take on a design such as this.

Regarding comments such as not taking chances, or taking chances, to me that's just meaningless nonsense, since I hear that I've done both. It's easy to say that you want something new, but what does that really mean? There is nothing that I or anyone in this business can do that will please everyone. The bottom line is that the watches sell, and the quality is good. The G-1, LM-2, and LM-3 are coming soon, and it appears that they will sell well.

I have spoken with two people who I believe have established industry credentials, and they were impressed with the line and where it is going. That's good enough for me right now.

Where we disagree simply comes down to design philosophy and direction for OCEAN7. We may both be right, or we may be wrong. Time will tell.

Thanks again for your valuable input.

Mitch

[ISAIL]

I think an O7 inspired homage to (definitely not copy of) the PloProf is an awesome idea. Not only will it doubtless be a great watch, I think it will definitely create interest in O7 off of this forum.

[Automatic]

I think an O7 inspired homage to (definitely not copy of) the PloProf is an awesome idea. Not only will it doubtless be a great watch, I think it will definitely create interest in O7 off of this forum.
I agree I would like to see this become a reality. Sign me up.

[MitchSF]

Certain PloProf features are not practical to replicate, such as the bezel release button. The Ploprof is disassembled by removing the bezel, then the crystal. The movement is installed thorough the top, using a complicated arrangement of spacers and gaskets. This isn't practical either. A more conventional screw back would have to be used.

The case shape can be duplicated, but that's not what I want to do. I'm looking for a similar shape, but with a modern, angular design and a bezel similar to the LM-3, maybe in PVD. We'll see how the drawings look.

Mitch

[ISAIL]

The case shape can be duplicated, but that's not what I want to do. I'm looking for a similar shape, but with a modern, angular design and a bezel similar to the LM-3, maybe in PVD. We'll see how the drawings look.

Mitch

I like what I'm hearing, but think a locking crown, locking bezel, and 600M rating are key.

[MitchSF]

A conventional screw down crown would have to be used. 1000m is the goal here, and that won't be difficult using a small, flat crystal like the PloProf. Sapphire would be used here, of course.

The drawing may look ridiculous. I don't want to get too excited over this.

Mitch

[NSG1Tausend]

WUHU |> am I glad you said that, 1000 love it.
ok wont get excited but take your time, and do it right like before and before and before this is going to be a fun year again Mitch.
Regards
Robt
A conventional screw down crown would have to be used. 1000m is the goal here, and that won't be difficult using a small, flat crystal like the PloProf. Saphire would be used here, of course.

The drawing may look ridiculous. I don't want to get too excited over this.

Mitch

[ISAIL]

A conventional screw down crown would have to be used. 1000m is the goal here, and that won't be difficult using a small, flat crystal like the PloProf. Sapphire would be used here, of course.

The drawing may look ridiculous. I don't want to get too excited over this.

Mitch

Darn, 1000m! And now I'm not supposed to get excited! If this drawing looks ridiculous we'll just have to try again now won't we?

[srh_pres]

A conventional screw down crown would have to be used. 1000m is the goal here, and that won't be difficult using a small, flat crystal like the PloProf. Sapphire would be used here, of course.

The drawing may look ridiculous. I don't want to get too excited over this.

Mitch
Ridiculous is in the eye of the beholder... or something like that. I for one would love to see that drawing when its done. :think:

[ISAIL]

Certain PloProf features are not practical to replicate, such as the bezel release button. Mitch

I understand the impracticality of the mono case and front loading movement, and don't think they're necessary to maintain some loyalty to the ploprof legacy, but the bezel release button doesn't seem that tough.

Though I'm excited about an O7 with 1000m rating alone, if you wanna take a big leap outside the forum, I think a pretty traditional PloProf layout and function is necessary.

I think if you mention PloProf, it really needs to look reminiscent of a PloProf, and work something like a PloProf, or those that don't already have an affection for O7 won't accept it. They might even crucify you for it.

Personally, I haven't laid a hand on an O7 yet and love them already, just for the idea behind them, and the trusted opinions here on WUS. I'm impatiently awaiting my LM-2! Want more empty 24mm strap pics as proof?:-)

Mitch, I've heard you mention selling "outside the forum" a few times, and in my limited experience, its a cold cruel wis-world out there. If you say PloProf you'd better deliver. O7 flavor will be welcome by everyone, because O7 ROCKS!

In My Humble Opinion, Some Restrictions May Apply, Your Mileage May Vary, Void Where Prohibited, Enter as Often as You Like! :-d

[Automatic]

Ok Mitch now you got me excited. :-d

[MitchSF]

Very interesting comments, guys.

Isail - I find just the opposite - it's a cold, cruel world here. Forum members have much higher expectations as to quality and customer service.

Regarding the button, it is not easy to get a factory to make tooling for a completely new bezel attachment method. This one would be particularly difficult, and not is not in the relm of possiblity.

Also, I really don't want to make a PloProf. That's been done. I understand there are fakes on the market, too. I guarantee it be a copy of the PloProf. Let's see where this idea goes. It's not a priority, so I may not have the drawings for a while.

Mitch

[XTrooper]

I know I'm very likely in the minority on this and that it's paramount to sacrilege in some circles to voice such an opinion, but I personally think the PloProf is glaringly unattractive.

I respect the watch for what it is, but it's not one I'd ever buy or wear which is exactly why I've always passed when opportunities arose for me to own one. Consequently, I'd have no interest in a PloProf homage.

[MitchSF]

I agree that the PloProf design certainly isn't for everyone.

Mitch

[ISAIL]

I agree that the PloProf design certainly isn't for everyone.

Mitch

There's an understatement!

[Nalu]

I agree that the PloProf design certainly isn't for everyone.

Mitch

Exactly, and this goes back to the comment above about the drawings being unattractive. The PloProf is admittedly an ugly beast - I can only imagine the cojones on the engineer at Omega who walked into his boss's office with those drawings in 1967! But it's the ultimate tool diver and has more bottom time than I'll ever have :-!

The HMMWV and Defender are widely considered ugly also, but I wouldn't take the old 1/4 ton over either. Examples abound of how ugly works!