Fake - You decide

[Docrwm]

eBay listing 140110071583 :think:

OMEGA SPEEDMASTER PROFESSIONAL - NEW SWISS WATCH

*** PERFECT CONDITION - BRAND NEW - 100% FEEDBACK ***

MOVEMENT
Caliber: Omega 1861
Famous manual-winding chronograph movement that was worn on the moon. Rhodium-plated finish
Power Reserve: 48 hours

So far so good - right? Only thing is that its $1600 buy it now, has Broad Arrow hands, and the dial says its both a Chronometer and Automatic. But there are pictures of the back and its a see-through with a manual "1861"(?) in it!!o|:rodekaart

[mamas]

This is a piece of crap chinese fake... movement included :rodekaart:rodekaart:rodekaart:rodekaart:rodekaart the movement is NOT an 861 .. just a piece of crap like the rest of the watch :-d:-d

[Qweevox]

Man...I can see how this could be mistaken for he real thing by a novice. :roll: Did you report the item?

[Docrwm]

Man...I can see how this could be mistaken for he real thing by a novice. :roll: Did you report the item?

Roger on that. x2

[g-banger]

yuck thats one terrible fake.. looks like a seagull movement in it

[Qweevox]

It appears that seller has a PO for sale... 140110414825
:think:

[sulaco]

Also it´s a fake, i have to say they really did a lot of craftmansship here:think:
They even use a column wheel. Looks more like the 321 movement, doesn´t it:think:
Why don´t they produce some own watches and use that movement with a
display back. I am sure you would find a buyer for it ;-)

Else i have to say that i hate these auction sites where you have to scroll down million of miles to find the pictures :-d
@Docrwm did you contact the seller?
when i find a fake that soembody wants to sell as a genuine one,
i usually thell him that has 24hrs to shut down the auction otherwise i will
inform ebay and send the auction to Omega:-!
Usually they come back with something like i am no watchmaker sorry, was my aunt/grandpa/grandma/grandgrandpa´s cousin´s sister in law´s uncles watch;-) and then they end the auction.

[Docrwm]

Also it´s a fake, i have to say they really did a lot of craftmansship here:think:
They even use a column wheel. Looks more like the 321 movement, doesn´t it:think:
Why don´t they produce some own watches and use that movement with a
display back. I am sure you would find a buyer for it ;-)

Else i have to say that i hate these auction sites where you have to scroll down million of miles to find the pictures :-d
@Docrwm did you contact the seller?
when i find a fake that soembody wants to sell as a genuine one,
i usually thell him that has 24hrs to shut down the auction otherwise i will
inform ebay and send the auction to Omega:-!
Usually they come back with something like i am no watchmaker sorry, was my aunt/grandpa/grandma/grandgrandpa´s cousin´s sister in law´s uncles watch;-) and then they end the auction.

I simply reported it. Why warn them? I am learning about Speedmasters but know nothing at all about POs so I would not know if that one were a fake or not. The "Speedmaster" dial and hands first caught my attention then seeing the glass back held a hand-wind it was a sure thing it was a fake. I even recognized the movement as a Seagull. Nice movement and the Chinese Seagulls sell for around $200-300.

[mwille]

Reported this one his morning already.. But as I mentioned before, Ebay.com does not seem to do much with these reports.. :-(
If I report a fake on Ebay.de the item gets removed the same day..

[Docrwm]

Reported this one his morning already.. But as I mentioned before, Ebay.com does not seem to do much with these reports.. :-(
If I report a fake on Ebay.de the item gets removed the same day..

Is there a way to report these items directly to Omega? It is their trademark that is being infringed upon and one would think they would be more motivated to take action?

[mwille]

Is there a way to report these items directly to Omega? It is their trademark that is being infringed upon and one would think they would be more motivated to take action?


Good idea... don't have any clue as to how one should do that though... Or even if Omega is interested in that..
Have a look around Ebay.es for example, there are more fakes then real watches there :roll: They could hire somebody at Omega just to chase after all the fakes

[Docrwm]

Good idea... don't have any clue as to how one should do that though... Or even if Omega is interested in that..
Have a look around Ebay.es for example, there are more fakes then real watches there :roll: They could hire somebody at Omega just to chase after all the fakes

eBay.es? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't had any hits from that one even when I check worldwide for my search on eBay.Com.

[Qweevox]

I reported the OP to Omega and eBay, but I think it helps if others do the same.

[mwille]

eBay.es? Sorry for my ignorance but I haven't had any hits from that one even when I check worldwide for my search on eBay.Com.


That's normal I'm afraid.. If the seller on Ebay.es states that they ship worldwide the item should turn up on Ebay.com.. But it doesn't, at least not always. I've had the same when offering something on Ebay.nl, I fill everything out for worldwide shipping but the item still does not show up when I search Ebay.com.. :roll:

.

[Docrwm]

I reported the OP to Omega and eBay, but I think it helps if others do the same.


How do you report the fakes to Omega?

[Callaway]

The guy also has a blue Bond GMT that's a phony as well, I noticed listed with the Planet I also dropped a note to E-Bay for all the good it will do. The one bid on the Planet was for $999.00 from Bidder 1 which in all probability is a shill bid.

[Qweevox]

This makes me so angry. If someone buys this watch as the real deal, you will have a person that comes to believe Omega makes poor time pieces. What do they say about people who have a bad experience with something...they tell no average 10 people.

I reported each of these auctions to ebay...we shall see what happens.

[eptaz]

No bids on this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-SPEEDMASTER-PROFESSIONAL-MOON-CHRONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ200102645054QQihZ010QQcategor yZ31387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), yet. But, it's one of the better Pro fakes out there.

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/99/0a/504b_1.JPG
http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/99/0a/50e3_1.JPG

eric

[Docrwm]

No bids on this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-SPEEDMASTER-PROFESSIONAL-MOON-CHRONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ200102645054QQihZ010QQcategor yZ31387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), yet. But, it's one of the better Pro fakes out there.

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/99/0a/504b_1.JPG
http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/99/0a/50e3_1.JPG

eric

Eric,

I looked at that one several times and something put me off. Sorry but I couldn't name what it was - just didn't like it for some reason. Can you point out what makes you say its a fake? I'd really appreciate a walk through if you can as I'm in the market and trying my best to really research them. Thanks!

[Qweevox]

Eric,

I looked at that one several times and something put me off. Sorry but I couldn't name what it was - just didn't like it for some reason. Can you point out what makes you say its a fake? I'd really appreciate a walk through if you can as I'm in the market and trying my best to really research them. Thanks!


I would like to know as well. THANKS

[eptaz]

The problems become more obvious, when you compare it with an authentic example.

http://homepage.mac.com/eptaz/.Pictures/watches/temp/fakecomparison7.jpg

The most obvious flaw is with the luminous markers at 3, 6, and 9, which are shorter than the rest. You can also see that the Omega logo and text is higher on the dial. Rather, you could say that it's spread out farther from the center, as are the subdials.

There are a few other things, too. They're not as easy to detect with the small photos, but see if you can pick them out.

eric

[Docrwm]

The problems become more obvious, when you compare it with an authentic example.

http://homepage.mac.com/eptaz/.Pictures/watches/temp/fakecomparison7.jpg

The most obvious flaw is with the luminous markers at 3, 6, and 9, which are shorter than the rest. You can also see that the Omega logo and text is higher on the dial. Rather, you could say that it's spread out farther from the center, as are the subdials.

There are a few other things, too. They're not as easy to detect with the small photos, but see if you can pick them out.

eric

Eric,

Thanks, its SOOOOO obvious when you point it out.:roll: Thanks!

[total_storm]

The problems become more obvious, when you compare it with an authentic example.

http://homepage.mac.com/eptaz/.Pictures/watches/temp/fakecomparison7.jpg

The most obvious flaw is with the luminous markers at 3, 6, and 9, which are shorter than the rest. You can also see that the Omega logo and text is higher on the dial. Rather, you could say that it's spread out farther from the center, as are the subdials.

There are a few other things, too. They're not as easy to detect with the small photos, but see if you can pick them out.

eric

Yeah its so obvious if you know where to look.. Eric you are a pro! If i ever think abt buying watches from the bay I'll post here 1st :-)

[slowrider]

Yeah its so obvious if you know where to look.. Eric you are a pro! If i ever think abt buying watches from the bay I'll post here 1st :-)

Personally I strongly against fake as well and I only have the real deal.

But the Speedy showing in the auction photo is a Speedmaster Reduce, the 3 or 9 o'clock marker is closer to the edge because of the smaller case. The same apply to the Omega logo as well.

It looks real to me, as I think it is not the moon watch, it just the automatic reduced version.

My 2 cents and please correct me if I am wrong.

[eptaz]

It's really is amazing what you can see, when you compare them side-by-side. It's like one of those "what's different about these two pictures" puzzles in the Sunday paper.

And total_storm, we have a lot of helpful, knowledgeable people around here, who are always happy to help spot fakes and assist with purchases. I've been fortunate enough to learn a lot from them.

eric

[eptaz]

Personally I strongly against fake as well and I only have the real deal.

But the Speedy showing in the auction photo is a Speedmaster Reduce, the 3 or 9 o'clock marker is closer to the edge because of the smaller case. The same apply to the Omega logo as well.

It looks real to me, as I think it is not the moon watch, it just the automatic reduced version.

My 2 cents and please correct me if I am wrong.
You're correct that the Reduced has shorter markers at 3, 6, and 9, but this fake looks like it's trying harder to be a Pro. Again, when you compare them side-by side, you can see the differences quite clearly.

http://homepage.mac.com/eptaz/.Pictures/watches/temp/fakecomparison7a.jpg

The numerals next to the markers, the chrono second hand, and the fact that the Reduced is not marked "Professional" give it away. Also note that the ETA/piggyback movement, which powers the Reduced, swaps the minute register and the small seconds at 3 and 9.

eric

[Qweevox]

The auctions that started this thread have been closed. I don't know what that means, perhaps the seller closed them before ebay took action, or perhaps he or she really didn't know that they where fakes...

In any case the auctions are closed.

[mwille]

The auctions that started this thread have been closed. I don't know what that means, perhaps the seller closed them before ebay took action, or perhaps he or she really didn't know that they where fakes...

In any case the auctions are closed.


The seller closed the auction himself, if Ebay terminates an auction it completely disappears. Even if you had it in your watchlist, the item will simply be gone :-)

[Docrwm]

Personally I strongly against fake as well and I only have the real deal.

But the Speedy showing in the auction photo is a Speedmaster Reduce, the 3 or 9 o'clock marker is closer to the edge because of the smaller case. The same apply to the Omega logo as well.

It looks real to me, as I think it is not the moon watch, it just the automatic reduced version.

My 2 cents and please correct me if I am wrong.

No, sorry it is NOT being sold as a Reduced/Auto. The ad quite clearly says Pro and so does the dial of the fake.o|

[Docrwm]

It's really is amazing what you can see, when you compare them side-by-side. It's like one of those "what's different about these two pictures" puzzles in the Sunday paper.

And total_storm, we have a lot of helpful, knowledgeable people around here, who are always happy to help spot fakes and assist with purchases. I've been fortunate enough to learn a lot from them.

eric


So have I - particularly from Eric and Fr. John!|>

I've reported 3 auctions since I started my Speedy education and all three have been removed from eBay one way or another!

[Kieron]

One of the main giveaways with the fake movements is the subdial at the 6 o'clock position. A genuine Speedy, as most people will be aware, uses that subdial for the 12 hour register when the chrono is running, whereas on the fakes, it simply mirrors the time on the main hour hand. The photo has been cleverly done to disguise this by setting the time to just after 12, which is duplicated by the subdial, in an attempt to dupe the viewer into thinking the chronograph is running... Fiendish or what? <|

[Docrwm]

One of the main giveaways with the fake movements is the subdial at the 6 o'clock position. A genuine Speedy, as most people will be aware, uses that subdial for the 12 hour register when the chrono is running, whereas on the fakes, it simply mirrors the time on the main hour hand. The photo has been cleverly done to disguise this by setting the time to just after 12, which is duplicated by the subdial, in an attempt to dupe the viewer into thinking the chronograph is running... Fiendish or what? <|

Another good point that makes it seem more likely that the seller is knowledgeable about their attempted deception. Sad, disappointing and sad.:-(<|

[mwille]

Here's another nice example I think :

http://www.snappymgr.com/images/items/2007-2/250086249/250086249-1.jpg

35th anniversary speedy with Broad Arrow hands ?? :roll:
Ebay item HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-Speedmaster-Professional-Apollo-11-Watch_W0QQitemZ250108882544QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3138 7QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


.

[Putts113]

Here's another nice example I think :

http://www.snappymgr.com/images/items/2007-2/250086249/250086249-1.jpg

35th anniversary speedy with Broad Arrow hands ?? :roll:
Ebay item HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-Speedmaster-Professional-Apollo-11-Watch_W0QQitemZ250108882544QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3138 7QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


.
Just had a look at the listing. Isn't the clasp wrong too. And the writing on the clasp could be done better by Bigfoot using a rusty pick.

[mwille]

Just had a look at the listing. Isn't the clasp wrong too. And the writing on the clasp could be done better by Bigfoot using a rusty pick.


Yep... What also stood out for me is that this is a 4000+ feedback powerseller.. perhaps he doesn't realize he's selling a fake?


.

[Phrooq]

All these fakes turning up on eBay is very disturbing to say the least. From what I can see the majority of items are genuine, but the few are ruining it for the many. I guess that's what watch forums like these are for.

[eptaz]

No bids on this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-SPEEDMASTER-PROFESSIONAL-MOON-CHRONOGRAPH_W0QQitemZ200102645054QQihZ010QQcategor yZ31387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem), yet. But, it's one of the better Pro fakes out there.

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/99/0a/504b_1.JPG
http://i13.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/99/0a/50e3_1.JPG

eric
Yikes, some poor soul bought this one for $1000.

eric

[mwille]

Yikes, some poor soul bought this one for $1000.

eric


Did you warn the poor guy? If not then I will...

.

[mwille]

Whoohooo! Here's the worst I've seen all week :

http://i11.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/9b/af/5cc7_1.JPG

Item HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-SPEEDMASTER-AUTOMATIC-RACING-MICHAEL-SCHUMACHER_W0QQitemZ120113839489QQihZ002QQcategory Z31387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

It just occurred to me.. maybe it would be an idea to have a sticky thread in which every one can post the fakes they find... could be usefull for wannabe-buyers :think:


.

[eptaz]

Did you warn the poor guy? If not then I will...

.
The buyer is now aware. He posted an inquiry on TZ, unfortunately, after he "won" the auction.

eric

[Justice]

It just occurred to me.. maybe it would be an idea to have a sticky thread in which every one can post the fakes they find... could be usefull for wannabe-buyers :think:

I agree.

[Docrwm]

Yikes, some poor soul bought this one for $1000.

eric

I reported it immediately after reading your review of why it was a fake.:roll:

[Docrwm]

Whoohooo! Here's the worst I've seen all week :

http://i11.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/9b/af/5cc7_1.JPG

Item HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-SPEEDMASTER-AUTOMATIC-RACING-MICHAEL-SCHUMACHER_W0QQitemZ120113839489QQihZ002QQcategory Z31387QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

It just occurred to me.. maybe it would be an idea to have a sticky thread in which every one can post the fakes they find... could be usefull for wannabe-buyers :think:


.

By doing so we could accumulate a database of the sellers too.......

[Docrwm]

http://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/9b/51/aca7_1.JPG
170105737862http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gif
Another fake. Thanks to eric I think I notice that this one has shortened hour markers at 3-6-9 like the reduced but it is listed as a Manual Wind Pro with an 861:roll:

[mwille]

And another one...

http://i4.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/8d/a9/2fa7_1.JPG

Item HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/Omega-Speedmaster-Chronograph-All-SS-Silver-Dial-Mens_W0QQitemZ280109577860QQihZ018QQcategoryZ31387 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)


By doing so we could accumulate a database of the sellers too.......

Indeed :-) Plus the more of us then report the item the better chance we have of it getting removed

.

[Docrwm]

Looking over the Speedy Pros available online I found this Apollo XV model.....

http://www.loudfrog.com/itemdetail.aspx?detailID=147737

Brand: OMEGA
Series: Speedmaster Professional Moon - Apollo XV
Size: Men’s
Case Material: Stainless Steel
Bezel: Stationary
Dial Color: Black
Bracelet/Strap: Stainless steel
Movement: Automatic
Jewel: 21
Additional Info: Week sub dial on the left position. Month sub dial on the right position. 24 hours format at 6 o’clock.
Crystal : Mineral
Crown: Screw-in
Case back: Solid
Case Diameter: 42 mm excluding crown