A 105.012 "Professional or not" - Riddle

[Anthony]

Hello,

Just slightly annoying, I started to look at this item in Ebay Ebay n.o 170127479957 . Should the dial really say "Professional" ?

Case says : 105.012-64
Movement serial says : 22825204 ('65 - '66?)

According to case, it should not say "Professional". According to movement, it could be possible the dial indeed has text "Professional" ?

b.r
Anthony

[Colin T]

Hi Anthony,

There are perhaps a few things to point out about this specific watch, but to answer your question:

The case reference 105.012 is the reference for a pre-moon professional (cal 321), hence 'Professional' on the dial is correct. However, as the seller states, this dial is a modern replacement from Omega, not original to the watch. The case has twisted lugs, correct for this reference.

Case references ending .003 (i.e. 105.003 and 145.003) are the 'Pre-Pro' models, without 'Professional' printed on the dial (and with straight lugs).

As ever, Chuck's pages are a wealth of information.

Cheers, Colin

[Anthony]

Sorry, maybe I am bit slow today but,

Hi Anthony,
The case reference 105.012 is the reference for a pre-moon professional (cal 321), hence 'Professional' on the dial is correct.

I see. I thought all pre-moons are without 'Professional'.


Case references ending .003 (i.e. 105.003 and 145.003) are the 'Pre-Pro' models, without 'Professional' printed on the dial (and with straight lugs).
Cheers, Colin
Ok, understood. This one is 105.012, it does not end .003, so based on this, its not Pre-Pro model.

:-) Tricky..but I guess I understood.
To sum it up, 105.012 IS Pre-Moon, but it should have Professional inscription.

Only thing which what I find strange is that case has actually -64 engraved on it, but title "Professional" was used around 1966 if I am not totally wrong.

[Zennmaster]

I see. I thought all pre-moons are without 'Professional'.




This can be confusing. There is "Pre-Moon" and there is "Pre-Pro". Of course, all Pre-Pro's are Pre-Moon as well, but not vice-versa.

[Anthony]

This can be confusing. There is "Pre-Moon" and there is "Pre-Pro". Of course, all Pre-Pro's are Pre-Moon as well, but not vice-versa.
Ya, I just learned that, pretty confusing :-)

http://home.xnet.com/~cmaddox/romans.html (http://home.xnet.com/%7Ecmaddox/romans.html) Says that this particular item should definetly land on the row :

1964 ST 105.012 321 22xxxxxxx

It does fall completely to that category, but can it really be that 1964 was allready "Professional" inscription on the dial ...

[Colin T]

It does fall completely to that category, but can it really be that 1964 was allready "Professional" inscription on the dial ...

Hi Anthony,

The movement dates to 1965 (approximately); it was not uncommon for Omega to use cases that were slightly older during this era, meaning that the watch could quite easily have been assembled into a case that was manufactured in 1964, even if the movement and other components were not completed until 1965.

The Professional inscription is correct for this reference and time period.

Cheers for now,

Colin

[Anthony]

Researching even further :

105.012, with serials starting with 228 are produced :
1964 ST 105.012 321 22xxxxxxx
1965 ST 105.012 321 22xxxxxxx

If the serial is 228xxxxx, does that also mean it is quite accurately -65 instead of -64 ? Arent the serials basically in chronological order?

Quoting Chuck : (http://chuckmaddoxwatch.blogspot.com...2_archive.html (http://chuckmaddoxwatch.blogspot.com/2004_12_12_archive.html))
"It is interesting that the movement number info doesn'e tie in with the details of Neil's watch, but as we all know the movement number dazte is +/- 2 years. ... Also of note is Omega's opinion of the date suffix eg 105.012-65 does not mean 1965 was the date manufactured although the general view is that usually the watch wouldn't have been much later."

"Also, serial numbers are basically not used for a special year, though it has to be taken into consideration that the chronograph movement of cal. 321 has been produced from 1946 until 1965, when then changed in new calibre 861.
The serial numbers are not relating for special given years, though it might be considered as movement numbers around 21'000'000 and 22'000'000 mostly have been fitted to watches produced in 1965 / 1966. "

[M4tt]

As I remember the Speedy became the Speedy Pro when it first went into space, not when it first went to the Moon.

Now I could look it up but I'm going to guess that it was after Omega realised that, say, Alan Shepherd used it in the, say, Gemini missions.

First person to accurately correct me gets a photograph of the first watch in space;-)

I just noticed that Speedmaster is an anagram of 'Depress mate' ... what can it mean!

[Ganderite]

My Speedy is a Pro but not a Moon. Bought it around 1965, I think.

[Anthony]

As I remember the Speedy became the Speedy Pro when it first went into space, not when it first went to the Moon.

Now I could look it up but I'm going to guess that it was after Omega realised that, say, Alan Shepherd used it in the, say, Gemini missions.

First person to accurately correct me gets a photograph of the first watch in space;-)

Quote from http://www.clubspeedmaster.com/space.htm"

"After achieiving "Flight Qualification" in March 1965, the Speedmasters first official voyage was the first Gemini flight GT-3 with astronauts Virgil 'Gus' Grissom and John Young.

Following this, history was made when the Speedmaster was worn on the arm of Edward White when he became the first American to walk in Space during the GT-4 mission in June 1965. In recognition of this feat, Omega renamed the Speedmaster....."The Speedmaster Professional".

Wheres my money? :-)

[M4tt]

Paid in roubles, comrade, paid in roubles.

http://www.b3ta.cr3ation.co.uk/data/jpg/8551.aaastronaut.jpg