Rich haul !!!

[aditya]

Hello All,
For the past year I have been indulging in my passion for watches, particularly antique english keywind pocket watches.

Since then, a lot of people have promised to give me old watches they have had for years (since they have'nt a clue what to do with them :-)).

Finally, My cousin has delivered on his promise. Here we have a tissot that belonged to our grandmother and two favre leubas that belonged to his grandfather.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/wristwatches.jpg

The tissot is probably the smallest watch movement I have seen so far. It is a 15 jewel affair. the balance seems to be ok. Unfortunately my cousin broke the stem and lost a hand when he was playing with it as a kid :-|. here are some pictures of the movement. I have included a matchstick to give an idea of the size.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/tissot1.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/tissot2.jpg
The favre leuba twin power is a 17 jewel manual wind. It does run for @ 5 seconds when shaken but then stops. The crystal is cracked but the dial and hands are in good shape. There are some broken bits visible near the winding wheels. Also, I think the crown is a replacement.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/FL_twin_power.jpg

The Daymatic works very well and keeps good time. It is a 21 jewel automatic (in case the name did not give that away:-)). It has beautiful beveled hands. The problem is that the crown is loose. It is quite easily pulled out to set the time. I think this too is a replacement. Here too, the crystal is cracked.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/FL_daymatic1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/FL_daymatic2.jpg

I just wanted to share my good fortune and would appreciate any information on these movement. Thanks in advance.

Aditya

[JohnF]

Hi -

A nice haul indeed. :-)

First of all the last: it is a calibre developed jointly by Doxa, Eberhard, Favre-Leuba, Girard-Perregaux and Zodiac, and is based on the AS 1687/1688 hand-wind. It is fascinating: double rollers and the microadjustment system is geared! The movement is identical to the Girard-Perregaux 32.09 calibre, rather nice indeed. Puts in in the 1960s.

The second watch, the one where the face is marked TwinPower, is a bit of a problem: here the calibre doesn't match what the face shows. Favre-Leuba developed a calibre with twin, parallel mainsprings that gave very strong power to the mechanism, the calibre 25x/27x; the one in the watch you show, however, doesn't have the TwinPower mechanism, but is rather more pedestrian. It is an AS movement, but I can't figure out which one (you can see the AS shield just under the retaining ring of the movement at 12, with the calibre number at around the 11, but I can't see more due to the retaining ring...

Nice Tissot as well... :-) No time right now to completely ID that one, but it looks like a Tissot 13.6 1T1. Dates it between 1954 and 1962.


JohnF

[Hartmut Richter]

Admirable identification of the first and third movements but I can't quite agree with the second watch - the mark is one from ETA, not AS. I have been through Ranfft's pink pages though and can't find a match either. Looks like the last digit of the calibre number is a zero - if you can gently prise off the plastic ring, you'll be able to read it. The way the mainspring is stopped (click on the transmission wheel, not the mainspring wheel) suggests that it is a manual base version of an automatic calibre.

Hartmut Richter

[JohnF]

Hi -

Well, if it is from ETA that's why I couldn't find it either...it does look like an ETA, what with that triangular plate. But it's certainly not a calibre that matches the face description of TwinPower.

Good point on the click as well: I noticed that it looked odd, but hadn't figured that one out...:think:

JohnF

[aditya]

Hello JohnF and Hartmut,

Thank you very much for your replies. Very nice of you to spend the time researching.

I guess some watchmaker must have replaced the movement in the 'twinpower' at some point :-(.

I will try to get the plastic spacer out and take a picture. Should i just remove it gently or remove the stem-crown first? there is a small 'button' that might release the stem.

Thanks again :-)

Aditya

[JohnF]

Hi -

Hey, no problem. That's part of what we're here for. :-)

I've encountered the movement problem with TwinPower dials before, and am not sure whether a watchmaker did that or whether Favre-Leuba at some point sold them that way. In any case I had a rather nasty spat when I bought one like that on eBay and was disappointed because of the wrong calibre inside. I tried to return it for that reason, but the seller had purchased it that way from his dealer way back when and refused to accept that the dealer had screwed him. There wasn't too much money involved, so I didn't press it, but like I said, it's a tad strange. And I have another Favre-Leuba with the 259 inside, i.e. a TwinPower movement, but which lacks the TwinPower writing on the face.

Hence the watch may be completely legitimate: I have, however, no way of knowing. Sometimes watchmakers, especially in the 1960s/1970s when they were under severe competitive pressures, simply scrounge some watches together from stock that is lying around and this makes it hard to figure out what is going on...

JohnF

PS: simply remove it gently. It shouldn't be necessary to remove the stem at all. Just take your time, go slowly and if there is resistance see if you can see where the resistance is and judge whether it is simply a friction or pressure fit between the plastic and the case, or whether this is something more substantial involved. Shouldn't be, but as always, be careful! :-) Alternatively, simply see if you can read the markings involved...

[aditya]

Hi -

PS: simply remove it gently. It shouldn't be necessary to remove the stem at all. Just take your time, go slowly and if there is resistance see if you can see where the resistance is and judge whether it is simply a friction or pressure fit between the plastic and the case, or whether this is something more substantial involved. Shouldn't be, but as always, be careful! :-) Alternatively, simply see if you can read the markings involved...


thanks, will do so and post pics in the next few days. Just noticed....... Ive got an auto version of a manual wind and a manual wind version of an auto....:roll:

[Hartmut Richter]

Some movements come in manual AND auto versions out of the factory. The most notable present day example is the old workhorse, the ETA 2824A2 which has a manual version in the shape of the ETA 2804, found in some modern manual watches (plus also some modern pocket watches...).

Hartmut Richter

[aditya]

Hello JohnF & Hartmut,

Sorry for the delay. I woke up half an hour early today to take these pictures :-). The shield says 'ETA' and there is 'XT 2850' engraved under the balance.

Regards

Aditya

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/FL_twinpower_m1.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/asambhare/wristwatches/FL_twinpower_m2.jpg

[JohnF]

Hi -

Hmmmm...

Never seen an ETA 2850, but it looks a lot like the ETA 2873 (http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?00&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2873).

JohnF

[Hartmut Richter]

No, the ETA 2850 does exist! Seemingly, it is available these days mainly in (at least partly) a skeletized version - c.f. http://www.freewebs.com/chrisvanhook/swissmovements.htm and scroll down rather a lot for a piccie. Personally, I think that it is just a slightly altered version of the 2873, which looks rather like the 2801 - even Ranfft often states for a certain calibre that "Differences between XXXX and YYYY not known" (e.g. Venus 230 and 231).

Hartmut Richter

[Roland Ranfft]

Hi there,

indeed, signatures on 285x...287x movements are pretty confusing.
I even can't work out, what number belongs to which features, because
you find almost all numbers on all types - even 21600bph and 28800bph
with the same number.

I still try to get some informations from ETA, but either they don't know it
or they don't want to tell it. And as long as I have no definite informations,
my archive just contains some examples represented by the numbers
written on them:
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2872
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2873
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&ETA_2878

For the Tissot I can add: Calibre 13.6-1T from 1955 (by number):
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?00&ranfft&&2uswk&Tissot_13.6_1T

Regards, Roand Ranfft