An example of the difference between auction houses

[Joe K.]

With all the discussion about various auction houses I thought this might be an interesting example....

Now let me first say that I am not affiliated with any auction house...

A few days ago I was trying to make a point about how important a reputation is in the auction business, regardless of whether they are legally responsible for accuracy of the description of the items being sold. My point was that the big auction houses invest resources into researching their items and thus building a reputation...

The example that I gave was a lot being sold by an auction house that specializes in watches. This listing was for a "problematic" Omega and would have been the second time (that I know of) for this auction house to make the same mistake with a similar watch... (BTW - the lot was pulled before the start of the auction).

So here is an opposite example. I was browsing the catalog for Sotheby's next "important watches" auction and cam across lot 136:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159402557

Pay attention to the detailed description. Now while I don't know enough about this watch to judge the description, it is clear that Sotheby's invested some effort into researching the piece... this is, IMO, one of the major difference between the various auctions houses (pardon me if I don't even include eBAY in this). Some are on the top and others are destined to remain mediocre, at best, if they don't go the extra mile...

[Hewybaby]

With all the discussion about various auction houses I thought this might be an interesting example....

Now let me first say that I am not affiliated with any auction house...

A few days ago I was trying to make a point about how important a reputation is in the auction business, regardless of whether they are legally responsible for accuracy of the description of the items being sold. My point was that the big auction houses invest resources into researching their items and thus building a reputation...

The example that I gave was a lot being sold by an auction house that specializes in watches. This listing was for a "problematic" Omega and would have been the second time (that I know of) for this auction house to make the same mistake with a similar watch... (BTW - the lot was pulled before the start of the auction).

So here is an opposite example. I was browsing the catalog for Sotheby's next "important watches" auction and cam across lot 136:

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159402557

Pay attention to the detailed description. Now while I don't know enough about this watch to judge the description, it is clear that Sotheby's invested some effort into researching the piece... this is, IMO, one of the major difference between the various auctions houses (pardon me if I don't even include eBAY in this). Some are on the top and others are destined to remain mediocre, at best, if they don't go the extra mile...

I agree with your sentiments about how things should be. I see much less difference than you do in this listing than in those of the other auction house. As I explain below, my expectations are much lower than what yours seem to be.

(I might add that I am literally a professional skeptic . . .)

Sotheby's does not make any guarantee of authenticity. I did not look, but I suspect their terms require you to accept the goods as is, with only liability for an intentional forgery -- the same as the other auction house.

Sotheby's does not have a condition report completed on this watch at this date (9/29/07). Conspiracy theorists could have a field day with how Sotheby's could have thoroughly researched the watch, set a price and written this detailed description without a condition report. It does make you wonder . . .

Any good Ebay auction gives the experienced watch collector more and better photographs and more opportunity to research than this listing does. Why does Joe Blow selling his grandfather's Speedmaster which was only driven to church on Sunday have more and better pictures than one of the premier auction houses?

Read my lips on this: There is more expertise on Omega watches on this forum than in all of Sotheby's. Their experts have to know the thousands of watches offered by hundreds of brands. They don't know Omega like we do. The same thing is true of the other auction house. (Their watch expert staff is 6 people, if I recall correctly [I asked]. I was shocked it was so few. ) They don't have the time to really research and know a watch.

Let's just do the math. Say they list 1,200 watches per year (which is on the low side). And they get to devote 25% of their time to researching the ones to be listed, among their many other duties. 1,200 watches, 6 people, 200 watches each. 2,000 work hours per year, 25% = 500 hours. That's about 2.5 hours per watch, unless I am low on the amount of watches they have to put in a catalog -- which I think I am.


I don't grade my watches, but to take less than professional photographs, measure and describe one watch in enough detail to go into my database takes an hour and a half, minimum. No research, no inquiry to Omega, just to get down the detail about the watch in a database with dropdown menus to speed up entry and make sure the descriptions are consistent.


Now some or all of my assumptions may be wrong, but I just don't think the other auction house has the time to be thorough. I don't think Sotheby's does either. Therefore, my expectations are low.
Sotheby's wants you to buy based on their reputation and a belief that they wouldn't intentionally list a watch (or artwork or collectible) that wasn't "right".

Just remember this reputation includes a conviction and fines for price fixing.

Caveat emptor

Great chronograph though . . . but for $25,000 don't I get to see the movement? ;-)

[Joe K.]

Hi Sam,
I also make my living as a skeptic...

Unfortunately you are right about the lack of pictures on the web catalog. I actually saw the watch first in the print catalog and there are more detailed pictures of the movement and dial.

I agree 100% that the expertise in this forum are far superior to anything any auction house can offer.... As you mentiond, Sotheby's has 6 guys that have to cover almost every watch brand out there... Compare that to people here who focus on a limited number of brands and era... It is clear why the forum would be ahead.

I don't think the Sotheby's listing is ideal, but I am just trying to make a point by contrasting it with other auction houses like AQ.

The bottom line is that we need to know what we are doing - or risk the chance of getting burned, no matter where we shop (or bid)...

[Hewybaby]

Hi Sam,

Unfortunately you are right about the lack of pictures on the web catalog. I actually saw the watch first in the print catalog and there are more detailed pictures of the movement and dial.

I agree 100% that the expertise in this forum are far superior to anything any auction house can offer.... As you mentiond, Sotheby's has 6 guys that have to cover almost every watch brand out there... Compare that to people here who focus on a limited number of brands and era... It is clear why the forum would be ahead.

I don't think the Sotheby's listing is ideal, but I am just trying to make a point by contrasting it with other auction houses like AQ.

The bottom line is that we need to know what we are doing - or risk the chance of getting burned, no matter where we shop (or bid)...

I think our sentiments about buying from the careless or crafty or criminal who are out there selling watches is about the same. Think of them all as crooks, auction houses included, and you have about the right idea. You really shouldn't buy from any of them . . .

. . . . but they have such nice watches . . .

Re-reading my post, I came across more harshly and argumentative than I intended to. It's difficult to be tongue in cheek successfully on the web.

I was trying to get across that I saw less difference in Sotheby's and AQ than you implied existed. I have no idea if Sotheby's researches more or less than AQ.


I also make my living as a skeptic...

Another professional skeptic? How do you earn your living?

I am a forensic accountant, and spend my time on damage claims in civil lawsuits -- creating them or tearing them apart or doing fraud investigations in civil and criminal matters, and then testifying about them in court.

[Joe K.]

I agree... all should be treated with suspicion...

I am a scientist – trained as a molecular biologist/molecular geneticist (or as often referred to in the media - genetic engineering) and working in the field of cancer research…

So it’s in my job description to question everything, come up with alternative explanation/s and then try and prove it…