Helium Valve on PO / SMP

[FrogmanFreak]

Hi all,
could you tell me what the Helium Valve is used for and how does it work? (I have read about the deep sea diving and the need for the Helium to compensate the difference in pressure during depressurisation) But i just want to know the exact details. If i unscrew it, does the helium escape or anything? and do i need to replace the helium or am i nuts? ;-)

[Mr Omega]

Ha ha ha....sorry for laughing but your question just made me laugh out loud here at my desk.
That valve is only for when you go deep deep sea diving and during that time your watches case has a natural tendancy to build little helium gasses inside that can potentially hurt the watch by creating too much internal pressure. Upon rising from the deep sea you open this valve and release all of the built up helium gases inside the case.
It will not do anything to the watch if you open it now as far as hurting the watch in any way.

Sorry for the initial reaction. Enjoy you new PO. I just cant wait to purchase my PO Chrono.

[FrogmanFreak]

Hi,

i have heard of the deep sea diving and all that, but Exactly what causes the Helium to react that way? What do you mean by "your watches case has a natural tendancy to build little helium gasses inside"

Most of us know that the HE Valve is used to release the helium accmulation, but I wish to know really the exact details and the principles on which this works.

thanks.

[DMB]

Hi all,
could you tell me what the Helium Valve is used for and how does it work? (I have read about the deep sea diving and the need for the Helium to compensate the difference in pressure during depressurisation) But i just want to know the exact details. If i unscrew it, does the helium escape or anything? and do i need to replace the helium or am i nuts? ;-)

Hey Frog, refer to the previous most stupid post thread ... you may be a winner. :-!:-!:-! - David

LOL, just kidding buddy. I know what it is for, but would probably screw it up trying to explain. It's been addressed in detail somewhat recently. You can probably search and find it. I think Jimmoose had some posts on the topic. - David

[jimmoose]

Its for saturation diving. Thats diving that done in a bell or small sub.
the atmosphere inside in enriched with extra oxygen and helium to displace the nitrogen. The nitrogen in the breathing air is absorbed
on your bloodstream at high pressure. Upon the release of the pressure
the nitrogen buildup in your system will settle in the joints and cause
nitrogen sickness, meaning the bends. Its sometimes fatal and at the very least very dangerous. The helium allows for shorter decompression times and helps stop nitrogen sickness. Helium is very seldom used
in tank diving and used in very deep, very long dives. Heium molecules
are smaller than oxygen or nitrogen and will seep past the seals on most watches. By opening the He valve, you allow the helium to escape.
Of course with gases, it expands at a lower pressure and will pop the crystal out of your watch.
Actually the He valve is useless to 99.999% of all divers. Most will never
do any really deep bell dives or in any subs that do underwater work.
Or any really long decompression times.
This is the short version and made really simple. I dive and spearfish often living on the coast and use mixed gas sometimes but limited to
nitrox or triox which are oxygen enriched gasses that allow you to stay down longer, not go deeper.
Its a nice conversation item though.
jim
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/jimmoose/Omega/P7080181.jpg

[Trojan]

Its for saturation diving. Thats diving that done in a bell or small sub.
the atmosphere inside in enriched with extra oxygen and helium to displace the nitrogen. The nitrogen in the breathing air is absorbed
on your bloodstream at high pressure. Upon the release of the pressure
the nitrogen buildup in your system will settle in the joints and cause
nitrogen sickness, meaning the bends. Its sometimes fatal and at the very least very dangerous. The helium allows for shorter decompression times and helps stop nitrogen sickness. Helium is very seldom used
in tank diving and used in very deep, very long dives. Heium molecules
are smaller than oxygen or nitrogen and will seep past the seals on most watches. By opening the He valve, you allow the helium to escape.
Of course with gases, it expands at a lower pressure and will pop the crystal out of your watch.
Actually the He valve is useless to 99.999% of all divers. Most will never
do any really deep bell dives or in any subs that do underwater work.
Or any really long decompression times.
This is the short version and made really simple. I dive and spearfish often living on the coast and use mixed gas sometimes but limited to
nitrox or triox which are oxygen enriched gasses that allow you to stay down longer, not go deeper.
Its a nice conversation item though.
jim
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/jimmoose/Omega/P7080181.jpg

Yeah. That's what I was going to say, but he beat me to it. Let's see, how do I get the helium back in there....:-d Just kidding Frog. I'm on your side. John

[CajunMike]

Hi all,
could you tell me what the Helium Valve is used for and how does it work? (I have read about the deep sea diving and the need for the Helium to compensate the difference in pressure during depressurisation) But i just want to know the exact details. If i unscrew it, does the helium escape or anything? and do i need to replace the helium or am i nuts? ;-)

Deep sea diving? What the hell? I thought it was to operate a laser or something. Dang those Bond movies.

[jimmoose]

try reading.......
jim

[BundyBeej]

Ha. I always knew what it was used for, and knew that i'd never have the need to use it, but the sales guy at Wallace Bishop where I got my SMP was touting the fact that it had the He valve - he said (in a semi joking manner) if you ever go swimming or diving you can open the valve and let the helium out.

It must have been the way I looked at him that made him never mention the He valve again :p The only reason i wanted to talk to the guy was to negotiate a price, not to learn about the watch. I was sold on the watch about 8 years ago!

[FrogmanFreak]

The HE Valve and its use has always been a talking point and i just want to get some facts right.

i just want to clarify some pointers.

Assuming like what Jim said, you are doing Saturation diving, as in working in a bell or submersible. In that "tank", the air is filled with helium and oxygen.

So the Helium also seeps into your watch. Upon decompression, I am assuming you need to pop the HE Valve, so the Helium also escapes. Is this right?

So:
1. At which point do you know when to pop the HE Valve? At the start of end of decompression? or by doing it gradually?
2. How long do you need to leave the HE Valve open? A Split second?


Or rather:
1. Enter the Bell / Sub - descend
2. Perform task under depth - oxygen and helium in chamber
3. Nothing happens to watch, but helium seeps into it.
4. Underwater task complete - begin Ascend
5. Enter decompression chamber.
6. Now - I am assuming you release the HE Valave gradually? or??

Is this correct? That was what i wanted to know. Not what Mr Omega thought.

[jimmoose]

The HE Valve and its use has always been a talking point and i just want to get some facts right.

i just want to clarify some pointers.

Assuming like what Jim said, you are doing Saturation diving, as in working in a bell or submersible. In that "tank", the air is filled with helium and oxygen.

So the Helium also seeps into your watch. Upon decompression, I am assuming you need to pop the HE Valve, so the Helium also escapes. Is this right?

So:
1. At which point do you know when to pop the HE Valve? At the start of end of decompression? or by doing it gradually?
2. How long do you need to leave the HE Valve open? A Split second?


Or rather:
1. Enter the Bell / Sub - descend
2. Perform task under depth - oxygen and helium in chamber
3. Nothing happens to watch, but helium seeps into it.
4. Underwater task complete - begin Ascend
5. Enter decompression chamber.
6. Now - I am assuming you release the HE Valave gradually? or??

Is this correct? That was what i wanted to know. Not what Mr Omega thought.

I assume with my limited knowledge that you would open it upon
the start of decompression and keep it open through the length
of the decompression phase. That tends to make more sense
to me. Its also a point with the manual valve that you know its
working because you opened it unlike the auto valves in Rolex and
others that you don't know till the crystal pops off. Just my thoughts.
jim

[Omikron]

Which basically means that the He valve is just an Omega marketing gimmick: "it looks cool or something".

The PO would have been much more aesthetically "correct" without it as the valve somehow disrupts the really nice and subtle left-hand lines of the case.

I wonder whether one could order a custom-made PO without the valve, even at a higher price. I'd definitely want one!

[Carl.1]

I must admit, the Omega helium valve always confuses me somewhat.

I understand that to operate it you have to unscrew it, why? If you uncrew the crown the same purpose is achieved.

The logical helium release valve is the automatic type on the Rolex watches.

All i can surmise is that Omega want their customer base to see the valve so that is why it is this design.

I love them, i will never ever use it but i still want my watches to have everything, it's a bit like my motorbike...it does 180mph, never going to use it, i just want it.

Cheers.

[M4tt]

You are a cruel man Mr Moose!

[Ozz]

I personally am not a very big fan of Nascar. Now if the F1 Federation was to send me a letter like that and give me an oppertunity to travel with the F1 teams all over the world and get to meet the drivers and all the fame and glory that goes into such a fantastic race......I would dive in!!!!!!!! :-!

I envy race car drivers. They get to travel the world, get with some of the most beutiful women on the planet, (because women love guys who live on the edge and drive fast cars), and make tons of money while driving the most technologically advanced fastest vehicles. ;-)

For me that would be a dream job










Now thats worth laughing about........check the thread........
jim


What's wrong with you man, do you really have to waste every thread with your OT comments?

Iam getting really annoyed with people killing this once so good, friendly and informative board.

Take a hike mate.

[G M Fude]

..I understand that to operate it you have to unscrew it, why? If you uncrew the crown the same purpose is achieved.

The logical helium release valve is the automatic type on the Rolex watches.

All i can surmise is that Omega want their customer base to see the valve so that is why it is this design.
There is a one-way valve hiding behind that big knob at 10 o'clock. So if you crack it open to allow the helium to escape, there is still no way water can get in. But unscrewing the crown will let water in if there is any around.

Omega's helium release valve is also quite effective at preventing me from buying a Seamaster.

[M4tt]

Omega's helium release valve is also quite effective at preventing me from buying a Seamaster.

I see your problem - what Omega need to do is produce a Seamaster Amateur or SMA. Exactly the same as the SMP but without the Helium release valve.

[moose859]

Love, David

[DMB]

why so tense? That was kinda harsh. I thought it was funny myself. Even Mr Omega can laugh at himself. How long do you think a watch forum would last if ONLY strict watch talk was permitted and nothing else. Last time I visited a forum like that I saw a tumbleweed blow across my monitor. How much fun is a forum where time between posts is measured in days instead of minutes. I think the threads in this forum are very much ON TOPIC most of the time, and it's really only in the lulls that people post off topic stuff just to keep things going. And, might I add you could just ignore posts from people who offend your delicate sense of horology correctness. That's what I do. ;-) Regards - David

[jimmoose]

What's wrong with you man, do you really have to waste every thread with your OT comments?

Iam getting really annoyed with people killing this once so good, friendly and informative board.

Take a hike mate.


Ozz
Poking fun at the less informed asking a valid question is on topic?
And you think MrOmegas answer was civil? You think that answer was friendy and informative? If you are annoyed,
well, we both know where this is leading. Have a nice day "mate".
jim

[eptaz]

In the interest of civility, this is about as far as this should go. For what it's worth, I think there has been a definite decline in OT posts in informative threads and, in this case, I think Jim caught himself and was good enough to delete this particular one.

Let's let this one go, guys.

Thanks,
eric

[Ozz]

why so tense? That was kinda harsh. I thought it was funny myself. Even Mr Omega can laugh at himself. How long do you think a watch forum would last if ONLY strict watch talk was permitted and nothing else. Last time I visited a forum like that I saw a tumbleweed blow across my monitor. How much fun is a forum where time between posts is measured in days instead of minutes. I think the threads in this forum are very much ON TOPIC most of the time, and it's really only in the lulls that people post off topic stuff just to keep things going. And, might I add you could just ignore posts from people who offend your delicate sense of horology correctness. That's what I do. ;-) Regards - David

Love, David

Ozz
Poking fun at the less informed asking a valid question is on topic?
And you think MrOmegas answer was civil? You think that answer was friendy and informative? If you are annoyed,
well, we both know where this is leading. Have a nice day "mate".
jim


Oh God. The three musketiers are doing it again. Cheers guys.

@ Jim: No, MR Omega's answer was far from civil, but all the slagging, 'jokes' and so called 'funny remarks' where you appologize for afterwards are not either.

[DMB]

There is no 3 musketeer thing going on this time. Frankly, I'm hurt that you would lump me in with the likes of those Moose brothers. They are scoundrels and skalawags of the highest order. And to think ... I once idolized you. You have cut me deep Ozz. - David

[DMB]

In the interest of civility, this is about as far as this should go. For what it's worth, I think there has been a definite decline in OT posts in informative threads and, in this case, I think Jim caught himself and was good enough to delete this particular one.

Let's let this one go, guys.

Thanks,
eric

Here Here ... drinks on the house. Have a good weekend everybody. - David

[M4tt]

Ozz,

I'm afraid that this one is my fault and so I hope that you will not mind if I try to explain. The whole thing is spread over two threads and two days.

Yesterday, someone posted an intemperate remark - as you know. Today, Moose started the Nascar thread which the poster of yesterday misunderstood and responded to in a way that left him open to exactly the sort of intemperate comment that he had made the day before.

I pointed out that this was a fine example of karma - initially he did not understand, but when it was explained he took it in good spirit and everything was fine. All Moose did was make what was implicit explicit.

In addition I would point out that if you look at the history of this thread you will see that the first on topic post that actually respectfully answers the poster's question is from Mr Moose Sr.

I apologise wholeheartedly for it starting this and causing any bad feeling.

D'Artagnan

[DMB]

Ozz,

I'm afraid that this one is my fault and so I hope that you will not mind if I try to explain. The whole thing is spread over two threads and two days.

Yesterday, someone posted an intemperate remark - as you know. Today, Moose started the Nascar thread which the poster of yesterday misunderstood and responded to in a way that left him open to exactly the sort of intemperate comment that he had made the day before.

I pointed out that this was a fine example of karma - initially he did not understand, but when it was explained he took it in good spirit and everything was fine. All Moose did was make what was implicit explicit.

In addition I would point out that if you look at the history of this thread you will see that the first on topic post that actually respectfully answers the poster's question is from Mr Moose Sr.

I apologise wholeheartedly for it starting this and causing any bad feeling.

D'Artagnan

No fair ... how come you always get to be D'Artagnan? He got all the babes.

[Ozz]

There is a one-way valve hiding behind that big knob at 10 o'clock. So if you crack it open to allow the helium to escape, there is still no way water can get in. But unscrewing the crown will let water in if there is any around.

Omega's helium release valve is also quite effective at preventing me from buying a Seamaster.

But this is all about saturation diving and decompression, so you won't be under water when using the He valve. The crown should do the job then.

Interesting point that Carl brought up, so the He valve is completely useless?

[Ozz]

Ozz, ...

Sent you a PM.

[M4tt]

Got it - thanks.

Let's face it - as anyone who has ever tried to turn the beautiful bezel on the SMP with wet hands will be able to tell you - the SMP puts aesthetic considerations before practical ones. I'm prepared to wager good money that the presence of the helium release valve has more to do with focus groups and less to do with diving.

[Mr Omega]

Thank you. Anyway...I dont think my response to the question was as un-civil or un-friendly as some others were.

[M4tt]

I agree, however my precise word was 'intemperate' - I think that you would agree that lolling at someone who had asked a legitimate question is, at the very least, intemperate.

Frankly this is probably a good time to let it all go. Sorry you got caught up in a slightly more complicated issue - I really wouldn't worry about it. But be warned - if you stay here long enough you will buy a Speedmaster. It just happens!

[Ozz]

I'm prepared to wager good money that the presence of the helium release valve has more to do with focus groups and less to do with diving.

Yeah, lets move on and let the WUS focusgroup speak ! (http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=94116)

[FrogmanFreak]

i didnt expect my question to become a war. ;-) so back to the HE valve again.... :-s

[jimmoose]

But this is all about saturation diving and decompression, so you won't be under water when using the He valve. The crown should do the job then.

Interesting point that Carl brought up, so the He valve is completely useless?

Not totally useless. Some decompression chambers are underwater.
Some are in the water under drilling platforms for short decompression.
They are wet with high humidity. The He valve is waterproof while open
to 50m. The screw down crown is not. Most persons see the large decompression chambers on TV that are like bedrooms with all the comforts of home. They are seldom like that. Some decompression times
take days and its not a watch friendly environment.
jim

[DMB]

I see you're back. How was that hike "mate"? :-) - David

[jimmoose]

I see you're back. How was that hike "mate"? :-) - David

carrying that sword, costume and that silly looking hat get tiring,
you ought to try it..............
jim

[vjb.knife]

OK Guys I think I posted how this works before but maybe I better say it again because there is a lot of bad info in this thread up to this point.

First let me tell you where I am coming from to qualify my statements. I have an Associate Degree in Marine Diving Technology and a Bachelors Degree in Engineering. I worked on both coasts of the US as well as the Gulf of Mexico and overseas as a Commercial Diver. I have done Saturation Diving in up to 650 feet of water for several years with a total career in Commercial Diving of about 10 years before moving on to Engineering.

Saturation Diving takes place where it is deemed economical to keep Divers on a particular job for an extended time and the resulting time at depth causes the Divers’ body to reach it’s maximum amount of dissolved / saturated inert gas.

The Divers live for weeks at a time in a hyperbaric chamber system on the deck of a support vessel like a barge or ship and stay at the same pressure as the work site below in the ocean. So in my case at 650 feet the living chambers were kept at the equivalent of 650 fsw or approx. 296 psig. The divers are transferred to the sea bottom by a diving bell which locks onto the surface hyperbaric chamber and maintains the Divers at the same pressure all the way to the work site. There have been some Submarines used to transfer Divers but I do not think it is done anymore.

The breathing gas uses inert gases other than Nitrogen because nitrogen starts to become narcotic / toxic at around 150 feet. It is like being drunk and gets more serious the deeper you go. So Helium and sometimes other inert gases are substituted for Nitrogen in the breathing mix. The amount of Oxygen in the breathing mixture is not increased but in fact must be decreased as a percentage of the mix because it is toxic at elevated partial pressures and can kill a Diver if the level is too high. The bends is not the problem and you can get bent on Helium mixtures just as well as Nitrogen and it does not necessarily shorten decompression time to use gases other than Nitrogen.

The watch problem occurs because the small helium and sometimes used hydrogen atoms will leak past some watches seals and equalize the pressure inside the watch case. Over the weeks in this pressurized environment the internal watch case pressure will build up to the working pressure of the hyperbaric living chamber. This happens only during the time that the Diver is in the hyperbaric living chamber and the dry transfer Diving bell. It does not occur in the water in any way at all. No diver who is in the water all the time will have this problem at all. No decompression chambers are underwater and none are like bedrooms with all the comforts of home. If they were this stuff would be a lot easier but they suck.

When the Saturation Divers are ready to leave the system for their R&R they go into the decompression module of the surface system and begin their ascent. During this decompression period which can last several days the watch case which was previously pressurized to the maximum pressure of the hyperbaric living chamber now is more highly pressurized internally than the external pressure of the decompression module. If this difference in pressure becomes great enough because the helium can not escape the crystal might be popped off. The Rolex Seadweller type valve automatically lets the internal pressure vent off before causing any damage. The Omega type of valve is the same but has the extra protective cap which screws down on top of it, so it must be unscrewed to allow the valve to vent off the internal watch case pressure at the beginning of your decompression profile and leave it open until you are out of the system. It will vent Helium throughout the decompression process whenever the differential pressure between the inside of the watch case and the outside of it reaches the setpoint of the relief valve, which is determined by the spring in the valve. The other way of handling this potential problem is like Seiko and IWC. IWC makes their watches able to withstand the internal pressure without damage and Seiko makes their seals impermeable to the helium penetrating them. Lastly the Diver can just unscrew the normal winding crown to allow gas to escape that way, although some claim that this can displace the seals and cause problems later, and this is what I did on the few Saturation Dives that I bothered to wear a watch. My watch at the time had not HRV or other provision to prevent this problem. Saturation Divers do not need watches except to calculate how fast they are making money.

[jimmoose]

OK Guys I think I posted how this works before but maybe I better say it again because there is a lot of bad info in this thread up to this point.

First let me tell you where I am coming from to qualify my statements. I have an Associate Degree in Marine Diving Technology and a Bachelors Degree in Engineering. I worked on both coasts of the US as well as the Gulf of Mexico and overseas as a Commercial Diver. I have done Saturation Diving in up to 650 feet of water for several years with a total career in Commercial Diving of about 10 years before moving on to Engineering.

Saturation Diving takes place where it is deemed economical to keep Divers on a particular job for an extended time and the resulting time at depth causes the Divers’ body to reach it’s maximum amount of dissolved / saturated inert gas.

The Divers live for weeks at a time in a hyperbaric chamber system on the deck of a support vessel like a barge or ship and stay at the same pressure as the work site below in the ocean. So in my case at 650 feet the living chambers were kept at the equivalent of 650 fsw or approx. 296 psig. The divers are transferred to the sea bottom by a diving bell which locks onto the surface hyperbaric chamber and maintains the Divers at the same pressure all the way to the work site. There have been some Submarines used to transfer Divers but I do not think it is done anymore.

The breathing gas uses inert gases other than Nitrogen because nitrogen starts to become narcotic / toxic at around 150 feet. It is like being drunk and gets more serious the deeper you go. So Helium and sometimes other inert gases are substituted for Nitrogen in the breathing mix. The amount of Oxygen in the breathing mixture is not increased but in fact must be decreased as a percentage of the mix because it is toxic at elevated partial pressures and can kill a Diver if the level is too high. The bends is not the problem and you can get bent on Helium mixtures just as well as Nitrogen and it does not necessarily shorten decompression time to use gases other than Nitrogen.

The watch problem occurs because the small helium and sometimes used hydrogen atoms will leak past some watches seals and equalize the pressure inside the watch case. Over the weeks in this pressurized environment the internal watch case pressure will build up to the working pressure of the hyperbaric living chamber. This happens only during the time that the Diver is in the hyperbaric living chamber and the dry transfer Diving bell. It does not occur in the water in any way at all. No diver who is in the water all the time will have this problem at all. No decompression chambers are underwater and none are like bedrooms with all the comforts of home. If they were this stuff would be a lot easier but they suck.

When the Saturation Divers are ready to leave the system for their R&R they go into the decompression module of the surface system and begin their ascent. During this decompression period which can last several days the watch case which was previously pressurized to the maximum pressure of the hyperbaric living chamber now is more highly pressurized internally than the external pressure of the decompression module. If this difference in pressure becomes great enough because the helium can not escape the crystal might be popped off. The Rolex Seadweller type valve automatically lets the internal pressure vent off before causing any damage. The Omega type of valve is the same but has the extra protective cap which screws down on top of it, so it must be unscrewed to allow the valve to vent off the internal watch case pressure at the beginning of your decompression profile and leave it open until you are out of the system. It will vent Helium throughout the decompression process whenever the differential pressure between the inside of the watch case and the outside of it reaches the setpoint of the relief valve, which is determined by the spring in the valve. The other way of handling this potential problem is like Seiko and IWC. IWC makes their watches able to withstand the internal pressure without damage and Seiko makes their seals impermeable to the helium penetrating them. Lastly the Diver can just unscrew the normal winding crown to allow gas to escape that way, although some claim that this can displace the seals and cause problems later, and this is what I did on the few Saturation Dives that I bothered to wear a watch. My watch at the time had not HRV or other provision to prevent this problem. Saturation Divers do not need watches except to calculate how fast they are making money.

Thanks Vince, I was looking for your reply to a thread from a while back and couldn't remember who or when it was. Much better explaination than mine and always better from someone that been there and done that. thanks.
jim

[DMB]

[bowing] .. "Master" ....Great reply Vince, you rock.

[Ozz]

Thanks vjb.knife for this useful insight.

Saturation Divers do not need watches except to calculate how fast they are making money.

LOL

[DV8ED]

great explanation Vince, thnx|>

[FrogmanFreak]

Thank you Vince. it clarifies my questions now. thanks all as well. :thanks

[paduncan]

Omega NEVER uses marketing for their watches. Don't you get it? Only Rolex does that.

:-d;-):-d

Which basically means that the He valve is just an Omega marketing gimmick: "it looks cool or something".

The PO would have been much more aesthetically "correct" without it as the valve somehow disrupts the really nice and subtle left-hand lines of the case.

I wonder whether one could order a custom-made PO without the valve, even at a higher price. I'd definitely want one!