Definition of franken

[Joe K.]

Here is an extreme example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-Vintage-Swiss-RAF-England-Military-613-Watch-EX_W0QQitemZ330189592573QQihZ014QQcategoryZ31387QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dial: probably a legit reproduction dial made by Omega to replace on the worn out RAF issued dial from the 1940's

Case: not even clear if it is Omega, but the markings on the back are faked laser-etched and not the stamped MoD markings. The original watch should have fixed lugs. Crown not correct.

Movement: The cal 613 was not used in these watches. It should be a 30T2. Furthermore, the 613 is a sweep seconds movement. Here we see it with a sub-seconds hand at 6 position. The movement has been modified by removing the sweep-seconds pinion (see also the hole left between the hand where the pinion used to be) and a 4th wheel with a sub-seconds pinion was installed. Also, the cal. 613 used an excenter regulator and not the arrow-point regulator installed on this watch (see the whole left underneath the pointer where the excenter screw used to be?). Finally - the cal. 613 is a movement with date!

I should note that I wrote the seller yesterday to make them aware of the problems with their listing. I figured that since they were a high volume seller with good feedback that would actually care :roll:

[greyhound]

I gather this watch like the SMP 300 has many fakes? Gee another omega I like that is faked a bit.

[Truck Guy]

I've been chastised here for my idea of what the definition of a "Franken" watch truly is and what constitutes "original"

The piece that you noted on ebay is most definitely not original.

IMHO, the types of franken watches:

Original - 100% produced and assembled, boxed and shipped by the watch manufacturer.

Semi-franken - All original parts (NOS & original mfg repro parts), incorrect movements (but a real Omega movement as example)
& built by a watch maker or competent WIS. (Watchco SM300 as an example <<which I would buy in a heart beat!>>)

Monster-franken - A watch that contains any % of reproduction parts that were not made by the original Mfg.

Russ

[eptaz]

Nice catch and great analysis, Joe. That's one big mess.

eric

[Joe K.]

If you think the SM300 are a mine field (:-!) than wait until you get into military watches.... There are many variants and sometimes modifications were made at the unit level without record keeping.



I gather this watch like the SMP 300 has many fakes? Gee another omega I like that is faked a bit.

[eptaz]

I've been chastised here for my idea of what the definition of a "Franken" watch truly is and what constitutes "original"

The piece that you noted on ebay is most definitely not original.

IMHO, the types of franken watches:

Original - 100% produced and assembled, boxed and shipped by the watch manufacturer.

Semi-franken - All original parts (NOS & original mfg repro parts), incorrect movements (but a real Omega movement as example)
& built by a watch maker or competent WIS. (Watchco SM300 as an example <<which I would buy in a heart beat!>>)

Monster-franken - A watch that contains any % of reproduction parts that were not made by the original Mfg.

Russ
I guess different people look at it differently, Russ, but I consider a Frankenwatch as one cobbled together from different parts from different watches. Personally, I wouldn't call a Watchco a franken, but something else entirely. Heck, it seems like "a Watchco" is the most common description.

At the same time, I think different people use the term "New Old Stock" differently. To me, newly manufactured replacement parts are not New Old Stock; they're just new.

eric

[FrogmanFreak]

I guess once a non-original part which is not supposed to be in the design is fitted, it becomes a franken watch.

[Truck Guy]

I guess different people look at it differently, Russ, but I consider a Frankenwatch as one cobbled together from different parts from different watches. Personally, I wouldn't call a Watchco a franken, but something else entirely. Heck, it seems like "a Watchco" is the most common description.

At the same time, I think different people use the term "New Old Stock" differently. To me, newly manufactured replacement parts are not New Old Stock; they're just new.

ericEric, I agree. I consider the Watchco 300 a "real" Omega SM300, just not an "original".

OK, then maybe I'd call it a Baby~franken ;-)

Russ

[Watchbreath]

Kluge.

[john wilson]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/jw1954/munsters.jpg

[Watchbreath]

:-! A smiling kluge.http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e332/jw1954/munsters.jpg

[Joe K.]

Amazing to me that with all that is wrong with this watch someone paid close to 700$ for this piece of s**t.

The seller even included in the listing comments indicating that the watch was put together from parts of different eras...


Here is an extreme example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/OMEGA-Vintage-Swiss-RAF-England-Military-613-Watch-EX_W0QQitemZ330189592573QQihZ014QQcategoryZ31387QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dial: probably a legit reproduction dial made by Omega to replace on the worn out RAF issued dial from the 1940's

Case: not even clear if it is Omega, but the markings on the back are faked laser-etched and not the stamped MoD markings. The original watch should have fixed lugs. Crown not correct.

Movement: The cal 613 was not used in these watches. It should be a 30T2. Furthermore, the 613 is a sweep seconds movement. Here we see it with a sub-seconds hand at 6 position. The movement has been modified by removing the sweep-seconds pinion (see also the hole left between the hand where the pinion used to be) and a 4th wheel with a sub-seconds pinion was installed. Also, the cal. 613 used an excenter regulator and not the arrow-point regulator installed on this watch (see the whole left underneath the pointer where the excenter screw used to be?). Finally - the cal. 613 is a movement with date!

I should note that I wrote the seller yesterday to make them aware of the problems with their listing. I figured that since they were a high volume seller with good feedback that would actually care :roll: