Everything looks fine to me. Both 15J and 17J sturmanskies were made and this is what I would consider a civil example of the sturmanskie.
That's the way I see it.
Nice watch.
Thanks for the help, although I ve never seen POBEDA with 17J, only 15j. Sportivnie is 17J civil version of Shturmanskie. Is this radium dial what do you think???
USSR Times has one #0563 that is 17J hacking movement with Pobeda dial. If hands are glowing they are probably radium if the hands and dial belong to the movement, which I believe is 1956. Evidently not all civil sturmanskies were sportivnie.
The watch isn't original: it has Pobeda dial installed into a Sportivnie watch.
#0563 at USSR times is a franken watch too: has wrong hands, sportivnie movement in a typical 15j Pobeda watch with snap-on back-case. Winding crown belonged to a watch from Petrodvorec Factory.
The barrel wheel on #0563 clearly says "Победа" "Pobeda" and seems coherent with the rest of this 17j movement - same color, same finishing, same Cyrillic style, same degree of use.
Thanks for the tip. I checked.
The barrel wheels of 0333, 0390, and 0625 say "ГС МЧЗ" or "1 МЧЗ", which is correct since they are produced by 1 MWF.
The barrel wheel of 0563 says "Pobeda" in Cyrillic, which seems consistent with the Cyrillic Pobeda dial and the rest of the movement.
Please take a look at the catalogue of soviet watches, dated 1960y, pages 122 (description of Pobeda 15j movement with central second hand) and page 129 that shows Pobeda ЧН-609К.
Sorry, the catalogs are not a final argument. ;-)
They could indicate that a certain watch existed (sometimes they present watches that probably never existed, e.g. Slava 31 jewels, but this is another topic).
There are quite a few real, factory-made watches which are not presented in any catalog (e.g. Slava 32 jewels, but also many others).
One real, tangible watch is a better proof than any paper. "Material evidence" rules.
Sorry but I cannot agree with you in this case. We aren't talking about ultra-rare examples like Antarktida, Cosmonaut, Slava 31j etc. Pobeda was the most popular and mass-made wrist-watch in the USSR which was produced with strict accordance to the GOST (state standard). The watch in question has many evident signs of tampering and I already explained which ones: wrong hands, wrong winding crown, wrong movement. If you still believe that it's authentic - well you're welcome to think so Here is another great 'material evidence' watch: #0026
I don't think this is the proper thread to discuss Mark Gordon's collection, and I am not competent enough to do this anyway.
Maybe we should start a specific thread about 'catalogs' vs 'material evidence' and compare our respective beliefs or better - arguments. Peace, comrade!|>
I agree there were some Pobeda watches in Sportivne cases. These were the black dialed ones with lume - there are far too many of these to say they're all frankenwatches. This one however is Sportivne with Pobeda dial. this dial was used in normal, snap-back Pobeda. Also the hands are from Sportivne (the one with lume). Now getting back to the watches that never existed, i'd be very cautious saying so. A few years ago Vostok 2803 was only a "prototype" or maybe even a legend and now we know there were even a few versions of this rare watch. So I think we should sit back and watch - maybe some day we'll see a 31j Slava, why not ?
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