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  1. #11
    Member michele's Avatar
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Seele View Post
    P.S. I have updated the entries in the previous posts, but I still need some help regarding other less-usual case types. There are different versions of the round cases without crown guards, including Komandirskie and Amphibia: the Amphibia current round case is TYpe 420 but I think there might have been a smaller size one, conjecturally Type 020, and I need confirmation of that. Seems like I need a lot of help with the round cases!
    Not only those cases. The case 420 has been modified during these years - it's lighter and cheaper now, smaller lugs, no antimagnetic shield, no luminous dot on the bezel, and perhaps it's also imperceptibly smaller (i must verify).

    Oh, and there are also unidirectional bezels on Generalskie automatic cases with crown guards...i don't know if the code changes.

    Anyway, i'm sticking the thread.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by michele View Post
    Not only those cases. The case 420 has been modified during these years - it's lighter and cheaper now, smaller lugs, no antimagnetic shield, no luminous dot on the bezel, and perhaps it's also imperceptibly smaller (i must verify).

    Oh, and there are also unidirectional bezels on Generalskie automatic cases with crown guards...i don't know if the code changes.

    Anyway, i'm sticking the thread.
    Thanks Michele, I do not know about the changes done in the 420 case, in fact I do not know if automatic movement and antimagnetic shield have ever co-existed in the first place as I always think that the shield would get in the way of the rotor.

    The bezel, for now at least, is not an issue as I am concentrating on the case design. But the 420 case situation is indeed intriguing, if the 020 case can indeed house an automatic movement by using a more dome-shaped case back then there would not have been any need to develop the 420 case in the first place. Still, these variants exist and I certainly would like to learn more: perhaps the change in the 420 case could be classified as "420 early" and "420 late" or something

  3. #13
    nht
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Seele View Post
    in fact I do not know if automatic movement and antimagnetic shield have ever co-existed in the first place as I always think that the shield would get in the way of the rotor.
    Yes, there are antimagnetic shield on automatic movement... but shield is placed on the caseback.

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  4. #14
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by nht View Post
    Yes, there are antimagnetic shield on automatic movement... but shield is placed on the caseback.

    I see; I was thinking about a separate one, as seen in the Type 470 octagonals.

    The 020/420 intrigue continues, and I am still nowhere near getting the hang of the round case Komandirskies either!

  5. #15
    Member michele's Avatar
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by nht View Post
    Yes, there are antimagnetic shield on automatic movement... but shield is placed on the caseback.

    Exactly, although the pic refers to the ultra-rare "two crowns" Amphibia dream of the dreams

    Anyway, i have an automatic, 21-jewels, USSR-made Amphibia, and the caseback is made in the same way - a thin layer of antimagnetic metal, directly welded or glued behnind the caseback.

    AFAIK current Amphibians do not have that antimagnetic protection.

    I wonder if the two versions (old and new) had two different codes.
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  6. #16
    nht
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by michele View Post
    I wonder if the two versions (old and new) had two different codes.
    At least exist 2 different codes: 020 (old case) and 420 (new case).

    I compared externally both cases (020 case is from 1991 and 420 from 2000's)





    and verified that:

    - Central zone (marked in red) has a lower height in case type 020...
    - Both 020 and 420 cases have the same diameter.
    - Caseback has a lower height in case 020 (because it has a manual movement - 2409, and case 420 has a automatic movement - 2416)


    Probably case 020 is for old type Amphibia's with 2409 movement and antimagnetic shield, and 420 for recent (Don't know if older automatic Amphibia's have same code) Amphibia's with automatic movement.

    At least, in all my Amphibia's, i can confirm this.
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  7. #17
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Hi NHT,

    Thank you for showing us your comparison pictures. Would I be able to impose on you, and ask you to measure the thicknesses of the corresponding parts in the cases?

    I think what Michele said was that, the 020 case can take an automatic movement if a more prominently domed case back is fitted; I do not know either way because I do not have examples to examine. He also pointed out that even the 420 case has two versions, and that I cannot verify either way for my lack of resources.

    It is also possible that the 020 and 420 cases require different movement spacers, I feel that the latter needs a bigger one. If that be the case, this same change could also have been reflected in the similarly-shaped Komandirskie cases as I had checked two of them, one made for 2409 and the other for 2416, they certainly required different spacer rings of different diameters. If that be the case the Amphibia 020/420 would find parallels in the Komandirskie ??x/92x (the ??x means I do not know its appellation).

    Just to add the confusion, Mark's No. 0121, which seems to be a round Komandirskie case, has the inside of the lugs showing obvious radius. Getting even more intriguing!

  8. #18
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    great great thread guys.. i told those information to other guys and i hope that they will help us all ,.....
    watches are meant to tell times..

  9. #19
    nht
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Seele View Post
    ask you to measure the thicknesses of the corresponding parts in the cases?
    If you mean red marked zone, 2mm in the 020 and 3mm in the 420 case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seele View Post
    020 case can take an automatic movement if a more prominently domed case back is fitted; I do not know either way because I do not have examples to examine.
    Yes, it's posible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seele View Post
    It is also possible that the 020 and 420 cases require different movement spacers, I feel that the latter needs a bigger one.
    Inside i saw no differences: about 36mm in diameter in both cases. As the movements also have same measure (24mm), both spacers are equal.

    But i repeat, these facts are only based on the 2 cases that i compared.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Vostok classification database draft

    Thank you so much, NHT; I have made a note of your observations! :thanks

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