Found some watches (Longines) need help to identify

[Persson...]

Hi!
Was home this weekend and found some old watches from my grandfather that has just been lying in a box for a few years.
I have tried to search and look around to be able to id them but havenīt found anything.
So i thought that maybe somebody here could help me =)

As you can see in the pictures they are not in great shape but both of them runs ok.
The first one is supposed to be in gold but donīt know anything about the other one (except that the strap is homemade)

http://img221.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=cimg2563.jpg

:thanks

[gatorcpa]

The first watch is a Flagship model, from around 1960. These are fairly collectible, particularly when in operating condition.

The second watch looks to be from the 1940's. A military-style look to that one.

You may be able to find some more information here:

http://www.vintagewatchresources.com/

Both are very nice watches, enjoy.

Take care,
gatorcpa

[tomshep]

Well you're a lucky lad. The Flagship is a fine watch and irrespective of the movement within will be a good robust timekeeper of excellent quality. I'd suspect from the strap that it may be an American one: (is it marked 10K anywhere? Americans have 10 carat gold and not nine.) These are cased in the USA by the Wittnauer company but the guts are Swiss. THe older watch looks as though it is a 12.68z which is a legendary movement. After a service, it will probably run with an error of a few seconds a week, despite being well over fifty years old. (Longines are easily dated by their serial numbers by the way, if you are interested, get your watchmaker to record them.) Well worth getting a good watchmaker to relume the hands (Which are radium so some watchmakers won't touch it. Others will though so keep trying.) Give it a case polish, it will be stainless and scrub up well. Tough enough for daily use you've got a fine watch there. The other is a dress watch that will be admired in any company. A pair of true thoroughbreds, well worth the cost of having them serviced, your Grandfather had excellent taste. Congratulations.

[Eeeb]

The Flagship is suffering from lug gouge from the metal aftermarket bracelet. Trash the bracelet and put on a good strap after you have it serviced.

The lume on the military watch is beyond its' service life. But it can be enjoyed as is with no problems.

Both are, as was said previously, fine watches. With service they should be able to provide another 50 years of use as they are both classics and not members of any 'bling' fad that many modern watches suffer from.

[ulackfocus]

Your Flagship has a center sweep seconds hand so it probably has a 340 series automatic caliber inside. Very nice movements, and very good winding systems - I believe Longines used a ball bearing system similar to Eterna's rotor system. The dial tells me it's from the early 60's. The first versions of the Flagship had a subdial at 6 for the second hand, and were manual winding 30L calibers. The first autos used the same dial (like yours) but without the subdial. The next generation of Flagships in the mid 60's had "Automatic" on the dial in cursive script below the center pinion and had later versions of the 34x - usually a 342 if it didn't have a date window. Longines also had a 50x series with center sweep for their cheaper models llike the Admirals (507 and 508 were day/date movements) but I don't recall ever seeing one of them in a Flagship. Because it has a stainless steel back, it is probably gold plated or maybe gold filled. I can barely see the remnants of the 3 mast schooner on the back - was it raised relief or engraved into the caseback?

I don't know much about your other watch but if you can wait until I get out of work and into my reference material at home I'll see what I can find. Nice watches! Heirlooms are the best parts of any watch collection.

[ulackfocus]

Okay, found some info on the other watch. The bezel and lugs make me certain it's case reference #20454. However, the dial and hands look to be the style that would normally come with case reference #21764. Since both cases were 35 mm with all other dimensions nearly identical, it's possible that the dial & hands were interchanged either by Longines themselves or somewhere else in the watch's history. If you could post a photo of the side of the lugs and the caseback we could be absolutely certain. The #20454 DID NOT have holes in the sides of the lugs while the #21764 DID. Also, the #20454 had a snap-on caseback while the #21764 had 3 half-circles cut into the edges of the caseback 120˚ apart for the case wrench needed to open it.

Either way, tomshep was correct that it's most likely a 12.68Z movement. There are other possibilities (like the 15.26, 17.26, 15.94, or 27.0) but the odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the 12.68Z

[Persson...]

Hello again
Sorry that it took so long for me to answer in this post but i have been in another city all week on work and didnīt really have any time to look into the long (and good) answers that i got in this post.

But it seems that the watch was a quite good find and i will definitely get it to a watchmaker to get it up and running as itīs supposed to be

:thanks

(is it marked 10K anywhere? Americans have 10 carat gold and not nine.)

There is no mark that i can see that says anything about 10K

The Flagship is suffering from lug gouge from the metal aftermarket bracelet. Trash the bracelet and put on a good strap after you have it serviced.

Ok, so the bracelet is not original? That would be great becaus itīs (imo) really ugly =)

I can barely see the remnants of the 3 mast schooner on the back - was it raised relief or engraved into the caseback?

I donīt know how it was when the watch was new but now your can (as you say) barely see or feel the schooner, so i guess that it was engraved(?)

If you could post a photo of the side of the lugs and the caseback we could be absolutely certain. The #20454 DID NOT have holes in the sides of the lugs while the #21764 DID. Also, the #20454 had a snap-on caseback while the #21764 had 3 half-circles cut into the edges of the caseback 120˚ apart for the case wrench needed to open it.

I will upload some photos in a few minutes. Hope that they are showing the right stuff (As i said iīm a newbie on this) if not i took a bunch so i hope at least one should show the right stuff =)

[Persson...]

http://img518.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=cimg2617.jpg
Here are some more images that i hope will show the stuff that you talked about.
Thanx again =)

[Persson...]

By the way, are there any good places where on could learn more about the movement and what the difference are?
I was especially thinking about the difference in price so i "easier" could see if a watch is a good find or not.
Are there some "Watches for dummies" book anywhere

[Eeeb]

By the way, are there any good places where on could learn more about the movement and what the difference are?
I was especially thinking about the difference in price so i "easier" could see if a watch is a good find or not.
Are there some "Watches for dummies" book anywhere

Price is far more determined by the maker and case and dial than the movement, for the most part. It takes a real WIS to understand movement variations. Tourists don't.

I find most repair books have, by their nature, a lot of info on movements. But it is very general and not specific. Dr. Ranfft's archive is a great source of raw data.

Much of what I know about a movement came from researching that specific movement. When you do that, you sometimes find a website which details a great deal of info on that movement.