Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?
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  1. #1
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    Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    Hello

    I purchased this watch recently, and normally I would not do so unless I have seen a photo of the movement.

    When it arrived, I opened the back, and I expected to have Pierce and possibly a movement number stamped on the movement. All it has on the movement is swiss made Brevet DEP.

    I have done a search on Google and found nothing to help. Can you help me.

    Regards Gary

    PS: Sorry for the movement photo to be so blurry, as I took the photo with my camera phone.
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  2. #2
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    Hi.

    Its a very blurred movement picture but it looks like a Pierce 130 to me. See this thread: Question On Pierce Cal. 130 Chronograph


    Brevet Dep = Brevet depose = patent filed
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

    Many of my pictures were posted via Webshots which has now closed - and so have disappeared from WUS. Sorry.

    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  3. #3
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    And to add
    Very, Very cool and great timepiece
    Single Button Chronograph!!
    Fantastic
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  4. #4
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marrick View Post
    Hi.


    Brevet Dep = Brevet depose = patent filed
    Hi Marrick
    We agree 'Brevet' is patent
    I think 'Depose' means 'trademark' (registered)

    Filed or 'Patent Pending' is surely Brevet S.G.D.G. indicating Brevet Sans Garantie du Gouvernment i.e. 'A Patent Without Government Guarantee' or 'Patent Pending'

    Regards
    adam
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  5. #5
    Vint. Forum Co-Moderator Marrick's Avatar
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    I blame google translate - and now I'd agree on registered.

    Trademark is:


    • Marque déposée: trademark

    This is potentially useful as a French and German glossary: Depose and Deponiert:and other French and German marks
    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

    Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

    Many of my pictures were posted via Webshots which has now closed - and so have disappeared from WUS. Sorry.

    Please don't PM me to ask for a valuation - I won't attempt one.

  6. #6
    Member Mirius's Avatar
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    I'm sorry but that is wrong. Guides written for eBay are not authoritative in my view

    Depose will mean deposited or filed. Although a patent is given a filing number when you see Brev Dep it means that the patent is still pending. Once granted you will see Brev and then the issued patent number.

    Here is an example of an authoritative text - the French and then English from the EPO on the filing appeals procedure,
    Dans les trois mois, le requérant a déposé, en application de l'article

    Within three months, the appellant filed a new European patent application


  7. #7
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirius View Post
    I'm sorry but that is wrong. Guides written for eBay are not authoritative in my view

    Depose will mean deposited or filed. Although a patent is given a filing number when you see Brev Dep it means that the patent is still pending. Once granted you will see Brev and then the issued patent number.

    Here is an example of an authoritative text - the French and then English from the EPO on the filing appeals procedure,
    I think 'Depose' means 'registered' which is more for a trademark
    But as registered could also mean 'filed'??

    Not arguing the matter at all.
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  8. #8
    Member Mirius's Avatar
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    No, registered has another meaning i.e. approved. The 'Dep' is to warn off anyone who might be tempted to copy it that they will be in trouble when the filing is approved.

    It is worthwhile to mention at this point that Brevet and the Swiss cross do not just mean patent, they are also used for any official filing, which is also why 'registered' is not a good term as one of the other uses of Brevet is for Registered Designs.


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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirius View Post
    No, registered has another meaning i.e. approved. The 'Dep' is to warn off anyone who might be tempted to copy it that they will be in trouble when the filing is approved.

    It is worthwhile to mention at this point that Brevet and the Swiss cross do not just mean patent, they are also used for any official filing, which is also why 'registered' is not a good term as one of the other uses of Brevet is for Registered Designs.
    Thanks Mirius, I am ALWAYS ready to learn
    Thanks for explaining it all
    Regards
    adam
    "Owning a vintage watch is great, understanding where it sits in Horology is magnificent"
    and
    "By Teaching Others, We Teach Ourselves"
    Adam

  10. #10
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    Re: Pierce chronograph with Brevet movement?

    Hi,

    Great movement photo. sheesh...

    That said, Pierce used the symbol pi (i.e., π) and you should see this marked under the balance somewhere. Also, if this was a US import piece, it may be marked LLF. It may still be marked LLF in a 'domed' shield as Pierce made their own movements. LLF = Leon Levy Freres. Considering that the dial is marked Pierce, a mark of some-sort should be there somewhere on the movement. Maybe on the dial-side of the pillar plate. If it is not, concern then may be in order.
    All that I know is based on the hard work and writing of others. I can only aspire to augment this body of knowledge. If I am wrong it is because of my own failings. To quote Newton, "If I have seen farther it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

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