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  1. #11
    Member georges zaslavsky's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, I confused things a bit, I fear

    looks like a very interesting waltham, thanks for sharing
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  2. #12
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    Re: Ok, I confused things a bit, I fear

    Quote Originally Posted by trim View Post
    I have seen a very similar Helbros, which of course adds weight to the generic manufacture.
    I haven't seen one in real life, but some Helbros watches found online look almost identical indeed, apart from the logo.

    The seller indicated that the Waltham likely would contain an AS movement with 7 jewels, which sounds logical.

  3. #13
    Mod. Russian, China Mech. Chascomm's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, I confused things a bit, I fear

    Quote Originally Posted by georges zaslavsky View Post
    looks like a very interesting waltham, thanks for sharing
    +1

    There's a lot of joy to be had even in 'cheap' watches. For example this one shines a bit of light on one of the less well documented periods in the history of the Waltham brand. This collecting thing; it's all about the stories isn't it?
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  4. #14
    Member ltri's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, I confused things a bit, I fear

    As others have said, I have seen This exact same watch except with Helbros logo, also seen a few in blue dial too. They are fairly common on ebay. Most of the ones I've seen have 7 jewel Lorsa or Cupillard/French Ebauche movements. The only thing I don't like about these watches is the rhinestones, they make the watch look to gaudy.
    Last edited by ltri; August 11th, 2011 at 06:43.
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  5. #15
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Waltham watches made in France?

    On this point, I've been looking for information on that for a while, but nothing definitive. There are a number of different labels that were used on "international" Waltham's over the years. The red W was, I'm mostly certain, used by the Chicago company, as was a similar blue W. Later ones (post 70's mostly) use a W composed of diamonds.
    Then there's ones that only have the Waltham script (similar to yours), but without the red W. This one has a German movement (a PUW 1360): Name:  Dial.JPG
Views: 2050
Size:  273.8 KB

    And lastly, there's ones with just "Waltham" in a block typeface (This is a swiss AS1801): Name:  Watch.JPG
Views: 1574
Size:  232.4 KB
    These may have been the ones sold in Japan by Waltham International; the font seems to match what's shown on their website.
    Last edited by AbslomRob; August 11th, 2011 at 19:38.
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  6. #16
    Member mrsnak's Avatar
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    Re: Waltham watches made in France?

    Even more confusion for you. My Waltham from the late 60s-70s uses a Seiko Sportsmatic DS5 movement




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  7. #17
    Member lysanderxiii's Avatar
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    Re: Waltham watches made in France?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrsnak View Post
    Even more confusion for you. My Waltham from the late 60s-70s uses a Seiko Sportsmatic DS5 movement
    When did MZB acquire the rights to the name?
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  8. #18
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Waltham watches made in France?

    You, sir, are brilliant. Your question made me realize that Waltham is still an active trademark, and thus is in the USPTO databases. A little digging led me to this:
    USPTO Assignments on the Web

    Which shows that the name was licensed to another company that I vaguely remembered being in the picture, "Electronic Research Company, Division of Textron". The date of the assignment states 1976; I found some other documents showing that the Waltham trademark was renewed by Waltham Watch Company in 1974, so that fits. The renewal in 1974 included a watch dial (proof of mark) featuring the block text style, so I guess that isn't indicitive of the Swiss company.

    The Textron website reveals that they started acquiring a lot of companies in the mid to late 60's (including Speidel, the watchband maker,in 1964), but no mention of Waltham. The documents show they licensed the Elgin and Invicta brands as well.

    The assignment to M.Z. Berger is dated 1984, much later then I though. Some more digging turned up a newer trademark assignment from M.Z. Berger showing the "Diamond" logo, which confirms that part of my suspicions.
    Last edited by AbslomRob; August 12th, 2011 at 03:17.
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  9. #19
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    Re: Ok, I confused things a bit, I fear

    Ok, the seller put a spare Waltham for parts in the package. It looks exactly like the one I am wearing now; same case, dial, hands, lettering, crown, everything (just in a less good condition). This is the 7 jewels Swiss movement (code WXO which means Waltham-imported, I believe):



    I don't see any model numbers or a manufacturer on the movement.

  10. #20
    Member AbslomRob's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, I confused things a bit, I fear

    I can just make out something underneath the balance wheel in the picture....
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