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Thread: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

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  1. #11
    Member MrDagon007's Avatar
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryK30 View Post
    Yes, but the displays are still LCDs. They just use LED backlights (or edgelights) now. Originally, LCD TVs used fluorescent backlights.
    Yes, is what i meant.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by MrDagon007 View Post
    The lighting of the screens happens with LEDs now (perfectly white, long life) while older screens used some kind of lamps for lighting the screen panels.
    Technically, both CCFL and LED backlighting is only as good as the phosphors that are used to turn the emitted blue/UV light into a spectrum that looks white to the human eye; one isn't necessarily better than the other.

    LEDs are cheaper to manufacture, probably more energy efficient and, as you say, live longer.

    Edit: an addendum. You are right about LEDs for the backlights used in some professional monitors. These will have two color emitters with phosphors, or three emitters, rather than simply blue with a yellow phosphor. I'm not sure whether these systems are used on TVs though because they're more expensive and have significantly higher energy consumption. Some even have active cooling.

    But I digress. This doesn't seem like the kind of technology you'd find in a watch!
    Last edited by eljay; July 17th, 2017 at 10:06.

  3. #13
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    How a tv works isn't germane and even more confusion. I don't see the FTC allowing it. But I haven't stayed in a Holiday Express lately. Absent any specific examples and lacking links to industry reviews we really haven't done anything except air our opinions.

    I haven't seen Casio using the term incorrectly, and my casual search of TV's shows an LED is exactly that, no additional lighting from the side or behind. The makers pride themselves on thinness for it. Of course, I'm one of those dinosaurs who remember actual LED watches and calculators - red LED segments made up the monochrome display and no background lighting at all. They worked just fine.

    In fact, the jump to single twist LCD was nightmarish, I had an English portable computer (Amstrad) that required strong direct lighting to read it at all. I was envious of plasma owners who could illuminate the room.
    Last edited by tirod3; July 17th, 2017 at 22:29.

  4. #14
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by tirod3 View Post
    How a tv works isn't germane and even more confusion. I don't see the FTC allowing it. But I haven't stayed in a Holiday Express lately. Absent any specific examples and lacking links to industry reviews we really haven't done anything except air our opinions.

    I haven't seen Casio using the term incorrectly, and my casual search of TV's shows an LED is exactly that, no additional lighting from the side or behind. The makers pride themselves on thinness for it. Of course, I'm one of those dinosaurs who remember actual LED watches and calculators - red LED segments made up the monochrome display and no background lighting at all. They worked just fine.

    In fact, the jump to single twist LCD was nightmarish, I had an English portable computer (Amstrad) that required strong direct lighting to read it at all. I was envious of plasma owners who could illuminate the room.
    Not to beat a dead horse on the TV topic, but you are incorrect about LED TVs.

    LED TV


    A flat panel LCD TV set that uses LEDs (light emitting diodes) for its backlight source rather than the earlier cold cathode fluorescent lamps (see CCFL). Smaller, more power efficient and having a greater optical range than the fluorescents, LED TVs produce deeper blacks and more saturated color. In 2005, Sony offered the first LED TV.

    Although an LED TV is really an LCD TV with LED backlighting, the industry branded them as LED TVs to avoid monikers such as "LED backlit TV" or "LED-based LCD TV." Today, most TV sets are LED TVs.

    https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/59952/led-tv
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  5. #15
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Sorry about causing this tangent into TV discussion but it's probably why people are confused on the difference between LED and LCD. GaryK30 is correct though. LED TV's use LCD panels with LED backlighting. I'm not sure if the industry has agreed on this as I've never attended a TV consortium meeting but like I mentioned, it's because Samsung threw its marketing might behind this name. Since others like Visio have much smaller marketing budgets, it's easier for them to copy what Samsung is doing. The other big fish, Sony, still calls them LCD TVs but they also make it obvious that they use LED backlighting.

    So, back to our discussion...the Rangeman uses a LCD display with LED backlighting.
    GaryK30 likes this.

  6. #16
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by tirod3 View Post
    How a tv works isn't germane and even more confusion. I don't see the FTC allowing it. But I haven't stayed in a Holiday Express lately. Absent any specific examples and lacking links to industry reviews we really haven't done anything except air our opinions.

    I haven't seen Casio using the term incorrectly, and my casual search of TV's shows an LED is exactly that, no additional lighting from the side or behind. The makers pride themselves on thinness for it. Of course, I'm one of those dinosaurs who remember actual LED watches and calculators - red LED segments made up the monochrome display and no background lighting at all. They worked just fine.

    In fact, the jump to single twist LCD was nightmarish, I had an English portable computer (Amstrad) that required strong direct lighting to read it at all. I was envious of plasma owners who could illuminate the room.
    Has it ever occurred to you, Kind Sir, that some of us "youngsters" are actually professionals IN the industry? Do you know that the Casio brand actually draws quite a bit of nerds as well?

    Name:  LCD Monitor Layers.jpg
Views: 92
Size:  31.4 KB

    Above is an illustration of the layers in a color LCD monitor. With the advances in technology, obviously the design could vary. This is just a very basic illustration for the scope of our discussion. As you can see a color LCD monitor is a lot more complicated than the rudimentary Twisted Nematic LCD in a digital watch. The main difference is that the back light is constantly on in a color LCD monitor, whereas in a digital watch we only turn the back light on when we need it.

    In fact, if the back light is malfunctioned, the monitor likely won't be able display properly. These days monitors and TVs are so cheap and usually very reliable, if the back light goes out, it's probably not worth to repair. But back in the days (early 2000's) when LCD monitors costed a fortune, we often had to replace the light by opening them up. CFL back light was the limitation back then for size, heat, reliability and even distribution of light. By using LEDs for back light improved all of those aspects. Because you have to have the LEDs in order for the LCD to work, plus the aforementioned misleading Samsung marketing, sometimes caused some confusions to the terminology.

    However, for the topic / for a digital watch, there shouldn't be any confusion between LCD and LED since they work independently. It could be just a typo in their website, which is not unusual. But like others, I have to see it to believe it.
    Last edited by Watch_Geekmaster; July 18th, 2017 at 08:21.
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  7. #17
    lvt
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Buy a mechanical watch instead, there is nothing to confound.

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  8. #18
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by lvt View Post
    Buy a mechanical watch instead, there is nothing to confound.
    Trust me, it could still be confounding to some. There are numerous reviews in retail sites from buyers, complaining about the seller sent them a mechanical watch with a dead battery in it!
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  9. #19
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by Watch_Geekmaster View Post
    Trust me, it could still be confounding to some. There are numerous reviews in retail sites from buyers, complaining about the seller sent them a mechanical watch with a dead battery in it!
    Then you should only buy mechanical watches with exhibition caseback

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  10. #20
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    Re: Why does Casio call a liquid crystal display an "LED" instead of "LCD"???

    Quote Originally Posted by Watch_Geekmaster View Post
    Has it ever occurred to you, Kind Sir, that some of us "youngsters" are actually professionals IN the industry? Do you know that the Casio brand actually draws quite a bit of nerds as well?

    Name:  LCD Monitor Layers.jpg
Views: 92
Size:  31.4 KB

    Above is an illustration of the layers in a color LCD monitor. With the advances in technology, obviously the design could vary. This is just a very basic illustration for the scope of our discussion. As you can see a color LCD monitor is a lot more complicated than the rudimentary Twisted Nematic LCD in a digital watch. The main difference is that the back light is constantly on in a color LCD monitor, whereas in a digital watch we only turn the back light on when we need it.

    In fact, if the back light is malfunctioned, the monitor likely won't be able display properly. These days monitors and TVs are so cheap and usually very reliable, if the back light goes out, it's probably not worth to repair. But back in the days (early 2000's) when LCD monitors costed a fortune, we often had to replace the light by opening them up. CFL back light was the limitation back then for size, heat, reliability and even distribution of light. By using LEDs for back light improved all of those aspects. Because you have to have the LEDs in order for the LCD to work, plus the aforementioned misleading Samsung marketing, sometimes caused some confusions to the terminology.

    However, for the topic / for a digital watch, there shouldn't be any confusion between LCD and LED since they work independently. It could be just a typo in their website, which is not unusual. But like others, I have to see it to believe it.
    Using LEDs in the backlight gives you a lot of advantages. The most obvious is thickness as LED chips could be made much thinner (and cheaper with less power consumption) than a CCFL tube/inverter package, which allows you to design a TV that's also much thinner. Then there are color improvements with using LEDs. They tend to be much warmer, due to phosphor choice, than what you can get from a CCFL.

    Their higher brightness also allows you to use a thicker color filter design, which gives you better color saturation. Although a lot of companies are switching to quantum dots to get even higher color saturation with only a slight hit to power consumption.

    I could go on about why LEDs are much better but overall it's a much better alternative to CCFL. It's been a while since the display industry switched to LEDs. Maybe you can still get a panel that uses CCFL but I'm not sure where you can find that.

    Watch_Geekmaster, you sound like you know what you're talking about. Just curious what part of the TV or flat panel industry you worked in? :)
    Watch_Geekmaster and GaryK30 like this.

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