The Elephant in the Room

[GETS]

........but a watch is a pretty robust machine as Ben has pointed out in his post. This one is a relatively simple time only piece, of course.

A salient point and not one to be ignored. Noted.

[JerOk]

I plan to service my watches only when I see a decrease in performance. My reasons are these:

1) I have bought vintage pieces, serviced them, and have seen them perform well for well beyond 5 years.

2) I do believe that the short 'suggested' service interval is a form of revenue generation.

3) Most importantly - I have sent expensive (to me - up to ~5k) watches in to OEM service centers only to have them come back with caseback scratches, mis-aligned hands, dust under the crystal, etc. I feel that sending in a watch for repair is a crap shoot - you never know what you'll get back. Of course, reputable makers will most often attempt to make it right, but this usually causes me extra work, wait, and frustration. In some cases I'll never get the watch back in better shape (at least cosmetically) than when I sent it in. Do some searching here and on other forums, and you'll find instances of this, even from high-end brands.

I've yet to find a local repair person to service my watches with a high level of professionalism, but when I do I'll feel like I've found the goose that lays golden eggs.

[Shepperdw]

The guy who "over-hauls" my watches charges 60-70 dollars per watch. I hear this is dirt cheap. I wonder if he just likes me, or if he just likes how constantly I go to him?

[Shepperdw]

Also, I know someone will call B.S. on this, but whatever. My father has a Elgin pocket watch that he has had since... Mid 60's I believe. He has never had it serviced. He will not allow me to have it serviced for him. It still holds correct time. Who knows? (he says he doesn't trust anyone to touch it)

[lysanderxiii]

I believe that modern fully synthetic engine oils never break down or deteorite. I have seen reports that all we should do is to replace the filter once or twice a year ( of the highest quality) and just top up the oil level in between.

This can not be trasferred to a watch movement. Oils of specific viscosities in different places. Personally, I like to service my pieces about every 7 years or so.

They do break down over time, it's just it takes longer.

From Nye oils website:

Synthetic oils are inherently stable materials. Generally, they are not expected to oxidize, polymerize or volatilize at room temperature for 10 years or more. For example, we have regularly conducted ASTM tests to check the quality of certain very delicate synthetic hydrocarbon precision bearing oils five years after manufacture and have detected no degradation. Ester oils, where the ester linkage may be subject to a minute degree of hydrolysis in the presence of moisture, could become more acidic if moisture is present. Fluorinated oils and silicones are not likely to be affected by simple aging.

This is where I get my suggestion that the service interval can be not less that 10 year, and I think (my opinion based on knowledge of other oils) no more than 15 years.

a) What's the worse that can happen? I decide not to service a watch and one day it simply starts to keep bad time or stop all together. Fine - I deserved that seeing as I didn't send it in for 12 years. I then send my watch off to the manufacturer and he fixes it (I assume)? Is the cost slightly more expensive - hugely expensive - where's the real danger? It's not as if the mechanical watch is going to self combust in a drawer one morning is it? I'm really not being flippant. I would love to know the worst case scenario (mechanically and financially?)

Somewhere around here I posted pictures of what can happen....

EDIT: Here they are. The horror, the horror....

Servicing a Watch

[Rusty_Shakleford]

Now he and I are to the point of getting ready to partner on buying a used Rolex Daytona or two for investment purposes.

I couldn't help but chuckle at the thought of buying a Rolex Daytona from TristanZ's Avatar...

RS

[Rusty_Shakleford]

@Lysanderxiii

Thanks for the link to those pics. Very informative.

RS

[Gary123]

No, there is no relation between use and how fast the oils break down.

I guess much of that was based on the shelf life of oil being slightly less than the service life. But oxidation and degradation are not all that govern shelf life. Shelf life is assign by the manufacturer on the basis of how long they can guarantee the product will be "as manufactured" in the container it was shipped in.

I have heard more than one veteran watch technician tell me otherwise. There are various different causes for lubricants to "break down". For many lubricants, lack of using the watch will allow the chemical components of the lubricants to separate. If this happens while sitting on a shelf, I believe a technician can rejoin the chemical components by stirring. But if separation occurs inside a watch, the components cannot be rejoined by running the watch and the watch will have to be overhauled. This chemical separation can be prevented by running the watch periodically.

I have heard this as recently as within the past two years in a conversation with a master watch technician who is on retainer by the Smithsonian for watch and clock consulting and servicing.

[Ben_hutcherson]

I have heard more than one veteran watch technician tell me otherwise. There are various different causes for lubricants to "break down". For many lubricants, lack of using the watch will allow the chemical components of the lubricants to separate. If this happens while sitting on a shelf, I believe a technician can rejoin the chemical components by stirring. But if separation occurs inside a watch, the components cannot be rejoined by running the watch and the watch will have to be overhauled. This chemical separation can be prevented by running the watch periodically.

I have heard this as recently as within the past two years in a conversation with a master watch technician who is on retainer by the Smithsonian for watch and clock consulting and servicing.

I two bottles of oil from the 1950s sitting on my bench now. One is Hamilton PML-79, and the other Elgin M56b. Both show no signs of separation, and in fact work perfectly fine as oils to this day. They are both synthetics-in fact both of these oils were among the first popular synthetic watch oils.

Back in the days of whale oil, the oil would break down and lose its ability to lubricate after a few years(see my comments above about crystallized oil in watches).

Now, the biggest enemies to degradation in performance, at least to my understanding, are oil migration and dust contamination. Dust contamination is less of an issue with tightly sealed cases, but migration is still an issue.

[RuffRydas]

My collection these days is fairly varied in both age and countries of origin. I consider myself very fortunate to know 2 very knowledgeable watchmakers, but both are either on the verge of retirement or already retired. My biggest worry for the future of this hobby is the inevitable lack of expertise and parts to maintain/repair my vintage pieces (American pocket watches and Chinese handwinds). I hate to say it but decades down the road, I think anyone with the intent of getting into this hobby (w/o money to burn) will need at least some watchmaking training.