ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

Thread: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

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  1. #1
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    Question ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    So, I have this watch which is a white face Zeno De Luxe with the 2846. The only place that I can find it on the net is on a German Ebay page from a guy who sells other Zenos. I really can't find much info on the 2846. It's not even listed on ETA's website. I think it's a good looking watch, I would just like to know more. I have seen other Zeno De Luxe models, so I'm pretty sure that atleast that Zeo line exists. Is this a watch only sold in Europe or something?

    Patiently waiting education, TIA!

    Pete

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    Quote Originally Posted by M Pete View Post
    So, I have this watch which is a white face Zeno De Luxe with the 2846. The only place that I can find it on the net is on a German Ebay page from a guy who sells other Zenos. I really can't find much info on the 2846. It's not even listed on ETA's website. I think it's a good looking watch, I would just like to know more. I have seen other Zeno De Luxe models, so I'm pretty sure that atleast that Zeo line exists. Is this a watch only sold in Europe or something?

    Patiently waiting education, TIA!

    Pete
    Looks like this...


    And is the economy version of the 2836.

    The 2846 came in basic finishes with 17 or 21 jewels and runs at 21,600bph while the 2836 comes in entry level to top grade finishes and jewel counts from 17 to 25. It beats at 28,800bph.

    The 2846 is still a good solid workhorse movement

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    Thanks for the reply AG. I got the red X on the pic. Mine has just date, but I have seen some info which indicates that it also has a day function. If so, could this not be modded to make a GMT? Why would ETA not have this movement on their website?

    How about Zeno De Luxe?
    Last edited by M Pete; April 12th, 2009 at 00:09.

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    Quote Originally Posted by M Pete View Post
    Thanks for the reply AG. I got the red X on the pic. Mine has just date, but I have seen some info which indicates that it also has a day function. If so, could this not be modded to make a GMT? Why would ETA not have this movement on their website?

    How about Zeno De Luxe?
    I believe I read that the 2846 is a discontinued caliber and ETA doesn't seem to keep non current caliber info handy :(

    This is the link I meant to post...not a picture :oops:
    http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-...2uswk&ETA_2836

    The 28xx base caliber can be built up in numerous configurations, from full day/date to date only to no day/date.

    I don't know if it's a suitable base for a GMT function or not but I suspect that since so many other complications have been built on it, that a GMT function might not be out of the question.

  5. #5
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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    The 2846 is being phased out but there is still technical documentation. I'm not sure if you will see the PDF or will have to assess it yourself.

    Most I have seen are 21 Jewels

    Bulldawg

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-Getty View Post
    The 28xx base caliber can be built up in numerous configurations, from full day/date to date only to no day/date.
    To expound on this...

    When ETA first invisioned the 2800 series, they pictured a vast array of 54 movements all using a common set of parts. There were to be three different speeds (21,600, 28,800 and 36,000 bph), each in automatic or manual, one with no date, one with date, and one with day and date, and in two sizes (11.5 and 13 L), manuals with 17 jewels and the automatics in 17 or 25 jewels.

    In order to accomplish this, there were four mainplates, a thick one for the day/date version and a thin one for the date and no date version in each size (11.5 and 13 L), three different sets of balances, pallet forks, escape wheels, 4th wheels and mainsprings (one set for each speed) and most other parts being the same. They didn't quite get all of the models theoretically possible with the inclusion of the 12 o'clock day (2834), but most of the popular sizes and speeds were covered.

    The 2800 series covers caliber numbers 2800 to 2839.

    The 2840, 2842 and 2846 were all the same movement except the 2840 was no date (but used the same mainplate as the other two) and the 2842 didn't have the day wheel installed and a simpler calendar mechanism (but again, the same mainplate.) It was quickly noted that the 2840 and 2842 were unneccesary, as, if the windows were omitted, a 2846 works just as well as either of the other movements. The 2846 differed from the 2800 series in the pallet fork was simpler, the rotor did not have the ball bearing and the automatic winding mechanism was redesigned for optimum operation with the different mainspring, as the "one autowind mechanism for all" did not seem to work that well with the other two mainspring strengths.

    The 2840 series was introduced later than the first of the 2800 series (1991, I believe the 2824 was the first of the 2800 series introduced in 1971), and were made in 17, 21 or 23 jewels.
    Last edited by lysanderxiii; April 13th, 2009 at 16:10.

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    Quote Originally Posted by lysanderxiii View Post
    To expound on this...

    When ETA first invisioned the 2800 series, they pictured a vast array of 54 movements all using a common set of parts. There were to be three different speeds (21,600, 28,800 and 36,000 bph), each in automatic or manual, one with no date, one with date, and one with day and date, and in two sizes (11.5 and 13 L), manuals with 17 jewels and the automatics in 17 or 25 jewels.

    In order to accomplish this, there were four mainplates, a thick one for the day/date version and a thin one for the date and no date version in each size (11.5 and 13 L), three different sets of balances, pallet forks, escape wheels, 4th wheels and mainsprings (one set for each speed) and most other parts being the same. They didn't quite get all of the models theoretically possible with the inclusion of the 12 o'clock day (2834), but most of the popular sizes and speeds were covered.

    The 2800 series covers caliber numbers 2800 to 2839.

    The 2840, 2842 and 2846 were all the same movement except the 2840 was no date (but used the same mainplate as the other two) and the 2842 didn't have the day wheel installed and a simpler calendar mechanism (but again, the same mainplate.) It was quickly noted that the 2840 and 2842 were unneccesary, as, if the windows were omitted, a 2846 works just as well as either of the other movements. The 2846 differed from the 2800 series in the pallet fork was simpler, the rotor did not have the ball bearing and the automatic winding mechanism was redesigned for optimum operation with the different mainspring, as the "one autowind mechanism for all" did not seem to work that well with the other two mainspring strengths.

    The 2840 series was introduced later than the first of the 2800 series (1991, I believe the 2824 was the first of the 2800 series introduced in 1971), and were made in 17, 21 or 23 jewels.
    Thanks for the additional info

    What about the 2850 - 2897 calibers?

    Also, I believe the 2840/41/42 were only used in Swatch pieces.

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    Wow, great info guys. Thanks.

  9. #9
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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    The 2850/2870 series was an even less expensive movement for general sale (the 2840s were SWATCH only). The 2850/2870 differred from the 2800 and 2840 series movements in that the arrangement of the bridges was rearranged to reduce the number of screws required by one third, simplified the winding click and associated parts, and lastly, change the stem height to match the popular Japnese movements.

    Economies were furthered by using the same balance (but not the balance spring) in the 21,600 and 28,800 bph movements. Only the two springs, pallet, escape wheel, and fourth wheel were not common.

    The 2850/2870 series consisted of six movements, in two speeds each in no date, date and day/date versions. The 2870 series was the automatic, the 2850 series, manual.

    2850/2870: no date 28,800 bph
    2851/2871: no date 21,600 bph
    2852/2872: date, 28,800 bph
    2853/2873: date 21,600 bph
    2858/2878: day/date 28,800 bph
    2859/2879: day/date 21,600 bph

    The 2890 series was a radical departure from the standard wheel layout used by all previous ETA movements all the way back to the 2370 in the late fifties (although the bridge layout of the 2850/2870s was different, the wheels and balance were in the same location).

    These were introduced in an effort to make the thinnest automatic and still retain a movement at least as rugged as the older 2800s. After the "quartz revolution," ETA streamlined their men's sized (or 11.5 l) mechanical cataloge to two basic lines[1] the mid-range 28,800 bph 2800s[2] and the high-end 2890s (also, at 28,800 bph, 36,000 bph was found to require too much maintenance and special lubricants, the 21,600 bph movements were not prestigious enough for retention). The 2890s, being thinner movements, were used as the base movement for those movements that used dial-side complications and chronograph modules. It seems that the high-end market was the market most likely to support complications like sub-seconds, 24-hour hand, power-reserve, etc, etc...

    NOTES:
    1. The 2840s (later just the 2846) were retained as SWATCH exclusive inexpensive automatic watches.
    2. The day/date manual 2816 was dropped almost immediately, as it is the least popular mechanical complication. The 2821 (auto-no date) was also dropped as the 2824 fitted with a windowless dial serves the same purpose, as the two are are exactly the same except fot the date wheel and gears, you can actually fit date parts to a 2821 and make a quasi-2824.
    Last edited by lysanderxiii; April 14th, 2009 at 16:11.

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    Re: ETA 2846 & Zeno De Luxe

    You guys continue to amaze with the background information. That's great. It appears that the Zeno De Luxe is a line from Zeno which is predominately sold in Europe. Recardo33 sent me a like to a German site selling many of them and I see them in the european ebays.

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