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Gruen Precision 25 Jewel Autowind

20K views 17 replies 7 participants last post by  Barney Green 
#1 ·
I've been looking for an automatic for a while, just got too tired of replacing batteries in quartz movements.
I just went through my fathers watches I inherited a few years ago, and found this Gruen. I'm guessing it dates from the early to mid sixties, but could be older.
I haven't been able to find much info on it, here or in other forums, and I have not seen an identical dial anywhere. Can anyone tell me more about this?
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#4 ·
Let's put it this way: I got one automatic mechanical, and three quartz watches when my father passed. The pictured Gruen wasn't worn or serviced since at least 1975, and it is running great, has kept time to +/- 10 seconds per day for the past month. (Though I do not deny it should be looked at and gone over to maintain this level of performance) One of the quartz units, not worn or serviced since probably 2008, had to be discarded due to battery leakage issues. The other two I haven't the opportunity to get into. These are all decent quality Seikos from the eighties and nineties.

As for the size, it is a bit on the smaller side, it measures 33mm across the case, 37 including crown.
 
#7 · (Edited)
The markings/text font on the dial of your watch are very similar (the words are actually identical) to those on a Gruen I have (which is also a Precision 25 jewel autowinder), and the caseback looks identical to the one I have, which together suggests to me that your watch is from the early 1960s/late 1950s, and here's why:

The original (or "first") Gruen was broken up in 1958. An offshoot/incarnation (or "second") Gruen moved back to New York (for several decades before then, Gruen had been making watches at its Precision Factory/Workshop in Switzerland; the first Gruen consolidated all of its manufacturing into this facility in the 1930s - and only watches made in this facility had the "Precision" label on the dial - but the building is now under the ownership of Rolex) and operated there from 1958 until its failure in 1976. These two incarnations of Gruen are the ones in question here.

My particular Gruen has radium lume (as indicated by "RA SWISS RA" at the 6 o'clock position), and since radium was phased out of watches by 1960, this suggests to me that my watch was either made by the first Gruen before then (i.e. before 1958, when the first Gruen broke up) or between 1958-1960 by the second Gruen. Your Gruen, while sharing similar standard markings (wording and font styles, as well as caseback markings), does not have the "Swiss" marking at the 6 o'clock position, which suggests it was not manufactured in Switzerland. Since all Gruen watch manufacturing was done in Switzerland by the time of the first Gruen's breakup in 1958, your model, which could not have come from before the 1930s when all Gruen watch making was consolidated in Switzerland (i.e. the only other time when Gruen watches would not have been marked "Swiss"), is likely to have been made elsewhere (i.e. New York), by the second Gruen, despite being marked "Precision" as if it had been manufactured at the Precision Workshop (which is still possible; I don't know when Gruen stopped using and sold that facility, and it is possible that the second Gruen was still using it for a while).

Since the second Gruen operated from 1958-1976 and you have a photo of this watch from as early as 1967, it seems likely that your particular watch could not have been more than 9 years old by the time that picture was taken.

Hope that makes sense. For reference, I got my information on the dates and manufacturing details for Gruen here: http://www.pixelp.com/gruen/. This page specifically indicates what happened to the first Gruen and the second Gruen: Gruen Watch Company history: 1940-1958: WWII, Pan American, Gruen 21 (near the bottom).
 
#11 ·
Thanks so much for the information. I know it doesn't show in the picture, but this dial DOES have the small 'SWISS' under the 6, so at least that's one more thing identifiable on it. Dating it to the 58-76 era matches other aspects, as my father would have graduated from University right around 1960 or '61, and I would bet this kind of purchase would have coincided with such an event. Any idea what the retail at that time might have been?

Thanks again, it's great to unravel some of the back ground on this.

I'll be looking at getting the watch serviced soon. Figures, the Ingersoll 'Sweepster' dollar pocket watch I got from him 25 years ago is still running like a top too!
 
#8 ·
It may keep a decent plus- minus 10 seconds a day, but you are potentially destroying thr movement by running it.
Have it serviced first.

I agree to your quartz dilemma. I forgot to keep an eye on my Omega tuning fork, and then my wife discovered the dial was severely discolored. Battery leaked. To have Bienne redo the dial cost me USD 440. Thr watchmaker did not charge me for the restauration of the movement, as he is a friend.

But if you run your watch without a service, you might be looking to a very large bill.
 
#9 ·
According to the Ranfft movement archive most 25 jewel Gruens are AS 2063 and AS 2066 movements which date from 1969-1978. There might be another Gruen 25 jewel movement from earlier in the 1960s but these are predominently 17 jewels. Maybe a look at the movement would help matters.
 
#12 · (Edited)
So I guess the second Gruen was still using the Precision Factory/Workshop then. As far as I can tell (partly because I'm curious as to what my Gruen would have commanded price-wise), I can't put a consistent estimate on older Gruens. I wonder if this has something to do with their turbulent history and complex lineage in the latter half of the 20th century, and the fact that watches branded "Gruen" are still being manufactured, licensed by a New York parent company that bought the rights to the name (which I think is also described in those links I posted earlier).

Personally, the best bet would be to ask someone who has a fairly clear memory of what Gruens cost at that time, but that of course also has its drawbacks. Plus when considering flipping a Gruen of that vintage (as I am), a lot of other factors (besides inflation-adjusted price at the time) come into play.

Mine also runs exceptionally well despite its age (because it's somewhere around the half-century mark); in fact, it runs more or less as well as a new automatic. I've only had it a few months (picked it up on the 'bay), but the person who sold it to me did not indicate any recent servicing, and I haven't had it serviced either (from what I can tell, it beats at 18800 bph). It is entirely possible that it hasn't ever been serviced.
 
#13 ·
Clearly you've missed the entire conversation - someone already mentioned that it appeared to be from the 1970s, then the OP pointed out that it was definitely from before 1967 because he has pictures of that very watch from that year. Then I looked up the complex history of Gruen watchmaking and we ended up concluding it was probably from the early 1960s.
 
#14 ·
The baton hands are normally a sign of a watch from 1969 or later but it's not foolproof. The info we got from the owner indicates it's earlier than that. A look at the movement is probably the best way to date the watch.
If the watch says "waterproof" is usually a good sign that it's earlier than 1971.
 
#15 ·
That's when the usage of that term was banned by law, right? Oh, and sorry for being so harsh earlier.

I don't think the OP said anything about the caseback mentioning it being waterproof though.
 
#17 ·
This is the first picture of a Gruen watch that looks identical to the one that my dad was awarded when he bowled a 300 game. I do agree with the owner of that watch my dad received his watch in the early to mid sixties. I will look for pictures of my dad wearing the watch and or the exact date he bowled the 300. As he had passed away in 1971.

My dads watch also has a small Swiss under the 6, it also says it’s waterproof on the backside of it. I also have the original box the watch came in and the 2 little booklets that came with it.
When I took it in to be cleaned today and to also be appraised the jeweler said as long as it is running he wouldn’t even touch it.
I’m still trying to find out as much as I can about my watch as I’d like to pass this on to our grandson as a graduation gift.
 
#18 ·
The dial features a very unique font / number style which has been first used in 1967 and not later than 1971. So this watch must fall into this period. I have not seen Gruen using baton hands before 1968 but once you said that your dad wears the watch on a 1967 picture it must have been a very early use of these hands. The movement would bear the final proof for a 1967 production.
Conidering the appearance date of the dial and the photo you watch can only have been built in 1967, no doubt. WIthout the photo I would have dated it to 1970 also because of the print with the enlarged 25.
 
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