Watches & Attire - Rules & Counsel

[Chronopolis]

Sound advice.
But I myself actually favor black pants - One, becz I am not usually found in "business" (e.g., corporate) settings even when I am conducting (my) business.
Two, I prefer it precisely for the "severity" it conveys. I find that it works well for me when I wear it with intense rust brown or deep hunter-green sport jackets and dark bronze-tone ties.

But indeed: rules are rules, personal style is personal style. And here, insofar as a "personal style" IS a style (yours), and a "style" is a kind of "language" it too has an obligation to be coherent, lest you "speak" jibberish with your attire. There are no rules except yours, but you must still have them. It's kinda like "diction": the way you speak.
So then, your subjectivity/sense of style has to be refined/disciplined enough to make, and keep, certain rules of your own making.

This mastery of autonomy in creating a personal style is also what refines & strengthens your confidence in your sense of judgment. It takes courage - willing to fail, and make mistakes - and a certain intellectual curiosity about what it means to project an image of yourself to the world.... because, we DO project an image, whether we do it consciously or not. Why not be the master of your own image(s)? After all, you spent a lot of time/money in researching/buying that watch, didn't ya? You'd rather go naked-wrist than wear an INVICTA quartz, wouldn't ya? Well, there ya go.

What you wear - and how it is "appropriate" also has a lot to do with your own character AND line of work - these contextualize the "propriety" of your "style", and make it acceptable or not. (To wit, what Steve Tyler wears is not acceptable on anyone - not even on a woman - but on him.)

I would advice against black pants, unless you're working for the secret service or planning on a funeral. The problem with a color like black is two fold: one, it forces a certain level of formality that would be at odds with any dress code but the most formal (e.g. black tie, and in some cases, black suits -- as much as I despise them, and that is why the rules recommend them only for formal occasions). And another, more pragmatic point is that it greatly reduces your flexibility in mixing and matching outfits, given how severe it looks. But like I said, the rules are one thing, but personal style quite another, and it all comes down to a degree of subjectivity.

[Spit161]

I wear a Speedmaster with a suit sometimes but I would draw the line at the Gulf Monaco.

Hmm.. I could see how it would work, but it would need to be a more "dressed down" suit (something a bit more colorful that the normal black/white job).

cheers.

[drt]

Who makes up the rules?

No particular person or group. It's a general social convention, like the rules about using the fork on the left, keeping your elbows off the table and not beginning to eat before the hostess sits down. Because they're social conventions, you can't just figure them out logically - someone has to tell you what they are. And it's good to know what they are, even if you don't always obey them, because then you'll know what's (probably) expected in a formal situation, which makes you more confident.

Let's keep perspective, though. Flowers or wine for the host or hostess is more important than this watch discussion, for sure.

[drt]

I'd posted the gradient scale once, based on a discussion on shoes, but here's how I see it for just watches and formality:
[...]

Is this all? Not really. However, this is my (albeit, limited) understanding of dress codes and their associated timepieces. Others, please feel free to chime in.

I'd like to drive a huge wedge between formal social practice and business practice.

In business, you have to wear what gets the job done. If a diver on bracelet helps you do your job, it's the right thing to wear. I do think a dress watch is the right watch for an interview, but I doubt it makes too much difference weather it's on leather or bracelet.

A formal social occasion is different. A guest at a formal social event owes it to the hosts to make an effort. One thing hosts want, in particular, is for the occasion to be formal. And it'll be formal only if the guests con-form.

If you ask the hosts whether you can wear a particular watch, they will graciously say yes, but I think their true wishes, shown by the substantial time, money, and energy they put into making a formal event happen, should prevail. With a suit, that means a dress watch on matching leather.

Some formal occasions happen in a house of worship. The rule there for adherents and other believers is that God deserves your best. That may or may not be what the ordinary social rules prescribe.

[Metlin]

No particular person or group. It's a general social convention, like the rules about using the fork on the left, keeping your elbows off the table and not beginning to eat before the hostess sits down. Because they're social conventions, you can't just figure them out logically - someone has to tell you what they are. And it's good to know what they are, even if you don't always obey them, because then you'll know what's (probably) expected in a formal situation, which makes you more confident.

Let's keep perspective, though. Flowers or wine for the host or hostess is more important than this watch discussion, for sure.

I'd like to drive a huge wedge between formal social practice and business practice.

In business, you have to wear what gets the job done. If a diver on bracelet helps you do your job, it's the right thing to wear. I do think a dress watch is the right watch for an interview, but I doubt it makes too much difference weather it's on leather or bracelet.

A formal social occasion is different. A guest at a formal social event owes it to the hosts to make an effort. One thing hosts want, in particular, is for the occasion to be formal. And it'll be formal only if the guests con-form.

If you ask the hosts whether you can wear a particular watch, they will graciously say yes, but I think their true wishes, shown by the substantial time, money, and energy they put into making a formal event happen, should prevail. With a suit, that means a dress watch on matching leather.

Some formal occasions happen in a house of worship. The rule there for adherents and other believers is that God deserves your best. That may or may not be what the ordinary social rules prescribe.

I couldn't agree more with both these comments. I will say that for some of us, business conventions closely mirror social conventions given the amount of social interactions that are involved -- this need not be the case for everyone, and in which case, differentiating the two becomes quite important.

[Metlin]

Sound advice.
But I myself actually favor black pants - One, becz I am not usually found in "business" (e.g., corporate) settings even when I am conducting (my) business.
Two, I prefer it precisely for the "severity" it conveys. I find that it works well for me when I wear it with intense rust brown or hunter green sport jackets and dark bronzish ties.

But indeed: rules are rules, personal style is personal style. And here, insofar as a "personal style" IS a style (yours), and a "style" is a kind of "language" it too has an obligation to be coherent, lest you "speak" jibberish with your attire. There are no rules except yours, but you must still have them. It's kinda like "diction": the way you speak.
So then, your subjectivity/sense of style has to be refined/disciplined enough to make, and keep, certain rules of your own making.

This mastery of autonomy in creating a personal style is also what founds, secures, justifies, and refines your confidence in your sense of judgment. It takes courage - willing to fail, and make mistakes - and a certain intellectual curiosity about what it means to project an image of yourself to the world.... because, we DO project an image, whether we do it consciously or not. Why not be the master of your own image(s)? After all, you spent a lot of time/money in researching/buying that watch, didn't ya? You'd rather go naked-wrist than wear an INVICTA quartz, wouldn't ya? Well, there ya go.

What you wear also has a lot to do with your own character AND line of work - these contextualize the "propriety" of your "style", and make it acceptable or not. (To wit, what Steve Tyler wears is not acceptable on anyone - not even on a woman - but on him.)
I also happen to wear my hair a bit on the long side, so that allows me to veer out of the rules a bit more freely.

Were Voltaire a stylin' man, I'm sure he'd have said something about disagreeing with your style, but defending your ability to flaunt it nevertheless.

But speaking of black, I recently discovered that I enjoy mixing black and midnight blue at relatively "less formal" black tie events (usually hosted by friends) by wearing a black bowtie with a midnight blue dinner jacket and trouser outfit. It just stands out, especially under lighting. People can see that something's different, but they're usually unsure for a minute or two.

And I wonder if one can get a midnight blue leather watch strap, to match.

[Chronopolis]

Were Voltaire a stylin' man, I'm sure he'd have said something about disagreeing with your style, but defending your ability to flaunt it nevertheless.

But speaking of black, I recently discovered that I enjoy mixing black and midnight blue at relatively "less formal" black tie events (usually hosted by friends) by wearing a black bowtie with a midnight blue dinner jacket and trouser outfit. It just stands out, especially under lighting. People can see that something's different, but they're usually unsure for a minute or two.

And I wonder if one can get a midnight blue leather watch strap, to match.

If it's not beneath you, you can easily find a "midnight" blue at this German fellow's shop on ebay. I got mine there, for my Armand Nicolet. Just type in "BOB night" under 'watches/jewelry'. Excellent quality, rationally priced.

As for mixing it up, how dare you.
On the other hand, bravo. That's how it starts, bubbah.
And then, before you know it, your liver has lost its ability to secrete fear enzymes, and you're ordering shirts from India by the dozen: lime and lavender stripes.

Black trousers work well with strong, dark, chthonic, but vibrantly "electrified" colors.

[ljb187]

1) I've often thought about wearing shoes that don't match. A deep cordovan shoe paired with a black one might go well with a navy suit. You could setup your watch strap in the same manner

2) People who like to wear giant watches should consider getting one of those 55mm fliegers and strapping it to the outside of their B-3 bomber jackets

[TheSanDiegan]

Five pages in to this sticky-worthy thread, and I think I see a pattern beginning to emerge. In particular, I fear this thread will evolve into a five-page cycle that will contain (at least) one merge of another independent thread asking a similar variation of the same question, and a subsequently required repost of Metlin's concise yet appreciably awesome guide for newcomers who lack the attention span to catch up in the thread the old-fashioned way - by reading it.

In order to contribute in some small way to the progression of the discussion, I would like to attempt to challenge the capabilities and parameters of the in-house style council by which these two important aspects of a man's dress, clothing and watch, should be coordinated. Otherwise, we're just a bunch of naked idiots wandering around without a clue as to what time it is.

So it is in this spirit I present to you the following:



















This is Dennis Rodman arriving at yesterday's NBA Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony.

First question: What watch would be appropriate with this tastefully understated ensemble? Bonus question: What shoes should he wear to ensure proper dress coordination with both his suit and the watch you selected?

Now, Mr. Rodman… excuse me… Hall of Fame Rebounding Machine Dennis Rodman, is no Cretan. He brought with him a wardrobe change for his acceptance speech:




So I ask the council, did you select a watch that was equally appropriate for both, er, suits? Or is the watch you selected for his arrival at the ceremony inappropriate for his choice of evening wear? If so, what watch would you select for this understated ensemble with that subtle red piping? On a more personal note, should I accidentally stick both my hands through a pair of lace doilies, should I change my watch if it is not already on a leather strap?

Lastly, I presume it is axiomatic that one should always match the metal of their nose ring(s) with their watch and belt buckle. Metlin?

[ljb187]

Five pages in to this sticky-worthy thread, and I think I see a pattern beginning to emerge. In particular, I fear this thread will evolve into a five-page cycle that will contain (at least) one merge of another independent thread asking a similar variation of the same question, and a subsequently required repost of Metlin's concise yet appreciably awesome guide for newcomers who lack the attention span to catch up in the thread the old-fashioned way - by reading it.

In order to contribute in some small way to the progression of the discussion, I would like to attempt to challenge the capabilities and parameters of the in-house style council by which these two important aspects of a man's dress, clothing and watch, should be coordinated. Otherwise, we're just a bunch of naked idiots wandering around without a clue as to what time it is.

So it is in this spirit I present to you the following:



















This is Dennis Rodman arriving at yesterday's NBA Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony.

First question: What watch would be appropriate with this tastefully understated ensemble? Bonus question: What shoes should he wear to ensure proper dress coordination with both his suit and the watch you selected?

Now, Mr. Rodman… excuse me… Hall of Fame Rebounding Machine Dennis Rodman, is no Cretan. He brought with him a wardrobe change for his acceptance speech:




So I ask the council, did you select a watch that was equally appropriate for both, er, suits? Or is the watch you selected for his arrival at the ceremony inappropriate for his choice of evening wear? If so, what watch would you select for this understated ensemble with that subtle red piping? On a more personal note, should I accidentally stick both my hands through a pair of lace doilies, should I change my watch if it is not already on a leather strap?

Lastly, I presume it is axiomatic that one should always match the metal of their nose ring(s) with their watch and belt buckle. Metlin?

50/50 chance his shoes didn't match!