Watches utilising Valgranges movement
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  1. #1
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    Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    I would love to get a watch that uses the newer Valgranges movement. The problem is, there aren't many brands that I know of that uses it. I can name a few, Certina, Chopard, Concord, Junkers, Longines, Maurice Lacroix, Meistersinger, Victorinox Swiss Army.

    Does anyone know of any other brands?

  2. #2
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cqf30 View Post
    I would love to get a watch that uses the newer Valgranges movement. The problem is, there aren't many brands that I know of that uses it. I can name a few, Certina, Chopard, Concord, Junkers, Longines, Maurice Lacroix, Meistersinger, Victorinox Swiss Army.

    Does anyone know of any other brands?
    You just named 8 brands! And each brand surely utilise the "by you preferred movement" in several models!
    A question from a "movement idiot": Why do you prefer that movement manyfacturer?
    Is there much diferrence between Valgrange and, say, ETA?
    Janne

  3. #3
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    Valgranges like most other movements (2824, 2892, 6497, 7750) are produced by ETA. Valgranges in the only new movement to come out of ETA in the past 20 odd years. The rest of the other movements named date back to at least the 1970s.

    Thing is, my ideal watch size is 42mm. All the models from the above named brands come in at least 44mm.

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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    Quote Originally Posted by cqf30 View Post
    Does anyone know of any other brands?
    Zeno has a few and the Glycine Airman 17 uses a Valgranges movement. I think the biggest advantage of that movement is that since it's a bit larger, the date moves outward a bit as well. Looks better in larger watches.

  5. #5
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement



    Well, Valgranges movements consequently followed the trend towards lager watches. An ETA 2824-2 looks kind of lost in a 44mm case.

    It was the demand for large watches which lead to the Valgranges collection.

    To encounter this trend, a new caliber emerged: the Valgranges, an impressive 16 1/2 lines movement.

    ETA press relase:

    From Valjoux to Valgranges
    A select origin entails a special obligation for excellence. The Valgranges calibre is indeed of high-ranking birth. Its name shows at a glance that it was conceived along the lines of the famous Valjoux calibre. Designed in 1973 in the Vallée du Joux, this standard diameter (13 1/4 lines) automatic mechanical movement has become a reference movement in Swiss mechanical watchmaking. It is the timekeeper chosen by an extensive number of brands and its name is recognised as a pledge of quality by both professionals and connoisseurs. Developed in Granges (Grenchen in German), where the manufacture ETA was founded nearly a century and a half ago, the Valgranges has all the qualities of the 7750 movement. And maybe even something more…

    A calibre that embodies the ETA values
    Watchmakers are familiar with the exceptional quality of ETA movements. Moreover, the company has the exceptional power to manufacture quality precision products. The Valjoux is prized for its reliability, its robustness, its high precision and also for its power: The mainspring rewinds with extraordinary speed – it just takes a few movements of the wrist to furnish the watch with energy. For the spring to reach its full 46 hours’ power reserve, a few hours of wrist movement will suffice. Of course, all the other advantages of the Valjoux are also included in the Valgranges calibre.

    Like the Valjoux, the Valgranges calibre is available in a series of movements equipped with different features but all of identical dimensions (same diameter, same height), an uncommon advantage for clients.

    + Valgranges A07.111
    Hour, minute, second and date.
    + Valgranges A07.161
    Hour, minute, second, date and power reserve.
    + Valgranges A07.211
    Hour, minute, second, date and chronograph.
    + Valgranges A07.171
    GMT

    more info: www.valgranges.ch

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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    I get the impression that its just a ETA 7750 with the chronograph complication taken out. Whats confusing is that there is a chronograph version of Valgranges - the Valgranges A07.171.

    So what is it?
    * A completely new movement with the automatic winding / timekeeping design based on the 7750?
    * Just an enlarged 7750 with the chronograph features taken out (and put back in as needed).
    Last edited by eqdok2007; May 10th, 2008 at 18:26. Reason: typo

  7. #7
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    I wouldn't say that the Valgranges is the Valjoux without the chronograph module. The Valgranges would be like the younger sibling of the Valjoux.

    There are 2 differences that immediately come to mind.

    1. Size

    The Valjoux (7750 and its siblings) is 13.25 lignes in diameter while the Valgranges is 16.5 lignes in diameter. 1 ligne = 2.256mm. That would make the Valjoux around 29.89mm in diameter and the Valgranges 37.12 mm in diameter. The Valgranges would look better proportioned in a bigger case with a display caseback without the use of spacers.

    2. Power Reserve

    The Valjoux has a power reserve of 42 hours and the Valgranges 46 hours. A greater power reserve means more power for other complications.

  8. #8
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    Quote Originally Posted by eqdok2007 View Post
    I get the impression that its just a ETA 7750 with the chronograph complication taken out. Whats confusing is that there is a chronograph version of Valgranges - the Valgranges A07.171.

    So what is it?
    * A completely new movement with the automatic winding / timekeeping design based on the 7750?
    * Just an enlarged 7750 with the chronograph features taken out (and put back in as needed).
    JohnF posted this on 20 May 2006 on the old forum (before we had this big crash...):

    Chronos, a watch magazine in Germany, tested the Chopard Mille Miglia...

    Chopard Mille Miglia Gran Turismo XL, COSC-certified with a 46-hour reserve, adjusted to five! positions, with the following results in the magazine Chronos 1/2006: Face up 0 seconds, face down -1 s., crown up +4 s., crown down +4s, crown left +2s, crown right +5 s. with middle amplitude flat of 294° and vertical of 260°. Total timing difference of 6 sec. with middle deviation of +2 sec.

    Their review said that the Valgranges is a massive work with extremely stable timing results.
    The Valgranges (A07.111) has a diameter of 16.5 lines, 7.9mm height, 24 jewels, Nivarox hairspring "Etastable", 28'800 bpm, etachron regulation, single main spring and one-sided automatic system (i.e. the rotor only winds when it moves clockwise). The caliber is based on the 7750, but the 7750 is only 13.25 lines, so this is considerably larger (16.5 lines is 37.22 mm).

    Chronos liked the caliber so much (it can use many parts of the 7750 for repairs but not all) that they felt it will probably be one of the most dependable calibers that ETA has ever manufactured, and with the COSC certification and the kind of results that at least Chopard was able to achieve, one with excellent accuracy.

    Advantages 7750 vs Valganges:


    The increase to 46 hour power reserve means several things.
    First, you have more power to play with when adding complications; second and more interesting the power curve of the spring will also have a longer linear portion, which invariably increases accuracy.

    There's room on the movement for the watchmaker to get down and funky with. Add a swan-neck regulator on a 7750 can be done, but it's tight, and on the A07 you've simply got more real estate to work with. Adding customized work is simply easier with a larger movement.

    ETA is doing its horological homework and knows that watchmakers are having difficulties selling $10k watches with the "same" work as a $2k watch, all other things being equal. Making the base movement a tad larger means that it will run, all other things being equal, more smoothly, since you are increase the mass of the moving parts. Think of the old record players: some of the substantial price differences among, say, Thorens models were based simply on the weight of the platter that the record revolved on and the motor to drive it (I'm simplifying, but that's the basics), and I've known audio freaks who weighted their records down and let the record player run for 20 minutes so that the speed would stabilize to an immeasurable variation before they'd put the diamond on the vinyl. To increase the accuracy of the seconds count (NOT the beat!) you can either increase the weight of the balance wheel or you can increase the speed, with speed ultimately winning out up to the mechanical limits.

    Credits to John F.

    For more information feel free to use our search function. A lot of stuff to read.
    locolockman likes this.

  9. #9
    stuffler,mike
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    U T S.

  10. #10
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    Re: Watches utilising Valgranges movement

    Quote Originally Posted by stuffler,mike View Post
    Advantages 7750 vs Valganges:
    ...Making the base movement a tad larger means that it will run, all other things being equal, more smoothly, since you are increase the mass of the moving parts.....
    There is almost no difference between the 7750 and the new A07.211. If you download the 7750 spec and the A07.211 spec, you'll see there aren't any different parts except the base plate and rotor. Same escapement, balance, mainspring, gears, everything has the exact same part number. If you look at the diagrams, you'll see lots of room between the A07.xxx baseplate and the actual movement. Too bad, ETA could have really done something.

    The A07.161, A07.171 and A07.111 all share the same base 7750 movement, the PR and GMT are just added to the face side of the baseplate.
    Last edited by snorkeler; May 14th, 2008 at 03:30.

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