1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?
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  1. #1
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    1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    One of the quirks of my Speedmaster First Omega in Space is what I call the "soft" reset. If I reset the chronograph but don't give enough "oomph" when pushing the reset pusher the minute and hour counters will not fully reset to zero - they'll go maybe halfway. Giving a forceful push will fully reset the counters, and as long as I consistently do a hard press I can completely avoid this issue when using the chronograph in everyday usage. Is this just an issue with my watch or is it something common to the 1861 movement? Anyone else experience this?

  2. #2
    Member mazman01's Avatar
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    Re: 1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    Just tried mine. Even with the slightest push it clicks with decisiveness and resets fully. There is no softness to the reset button. It just won't allow me to do it.

  3. #3
    Member King_Joe's Avatar
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    Re: 1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by imarx View Post
    One of the quirks of my Speedmaster First Omega in Space is what I call the "soft" reset. If I reset the chronograph but don't give enough "oomph" when pushing the reset pusher the minute and hour counters will not fully reset to zero - they'll go maybe halfway. Giving a forceful push will fully reset the counters, and as long as I consistently do a hard press I can completely avoid this issue when using the chronograph in everyday usage. Is this just an issue with my watch or is it something common to the 1861 movement? Anyone else experience this?
    I noticed the exact same problem on my CK2998 which also has the 1861 movement. It is only when around more than 4 hours have passed in the chronograph function. Searched everywhere and found nothing until your post. It is not a major issue as long as I give it a strong press, but I never faced such a problem in any other chronos I have. But since we have the same problem it seems that it is related to the movement itself.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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    Re: 1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    Yeah, I forgot to mention that it only happens after a significant amount of time has elapsed (hours, generally). I haven't done a rigorous testing of how long the chrono has to be running before this issue becomes apparent.

    Interestingly I briefly had a Speedmaster Moonwatch and never noticed this issue. Since you are seeing it on a CK2998 I wonder if it has to do with the design of the pushers on the no-crown guard models. They are significantly smaller than the pushers on crown guard models.

    Quote Originally Posted by King_Joe View Post
    I noticed the exact same problem on my CK2998 which also has the 1861 movement. It is only when around more than 4 hours have passed in the chronograph function. Searched everywhere and found nothing until your post. It is not a major issue as long as I give it a strong press, but I never faced such a problem in any other chronos I have. But since we have the same problem it seems that it is related to the movement itself.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    King_Joe likes this.

  5. #5
    Member vintageguy's Avatar
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    Re: 1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    I have a vintage Mark2 with an 861 movement & a modern Speedy Moon watch with an 1861 movement. both
    reset crisply.

  6. #6
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    Re: 1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by imarx View Post
    One of the quirks of my Speedmaster First Omega in Space is what I call the "soft" reset. If I reset the chronograph but don't give enough "oomph" when pushing the reset pusher the minute and hour counters will not fully reset to zero - they'll go maybe halfway. Giving a forceful push will fully reset the counters, and as long as I consistently do a hard press I can completely avoid this issue when using the chronograph in everyday usage. Is this just an issue with my watch or is it something common to the 1861 movement? Anyone else experience this?
    Are you sure this is affecting the minute counter, and not just the hour counter?

    The way these movements work, there are really 2 resets from 2 different locations. The minute and seconds recording hands are reset by the hammer on the back side of the watch. The hammer that resets both these counters at the same time is spring loaded, so as soon as it trips the spring brings that hammer down onto the cams of those two wheels to reset the hands. They should reset at the same time since it's one hammer that resets both. This video show the stop, start, and reset from the back side of the watch on an 861, which is the same as the 1861:



    When the start button is pushed, you can see the hammer swing up to the right, then when the stop button is pressed, it moves back slightly and is caught by a small pin known as the "stem bolt for hammer", and finally when the reset is pressed, that pin swings out of the way and the hammer comes down to reset both the wheels for the seconds recorder and the minute recorder. The second sequence shows what happens when that pin is missing - the watch resets when the stop button is pressed.

    So as you can see it would be unusual for the seconds and minutes to not reset together. And once the hammer is released by that pin, the speed of the reset is controlled by the spring, so how fast you press the button at that point has nothing to do with these two counters as the spring does all the work.

    The hour recorder is a completely separate part driven directly off the mainspring barrel, and this is under the dial. The hour recorder hammer is also under the dial, and this hammer is spring loaded also, but opposite to the other hammer - it is spring loaded away from the cam, not towards the cam. I didn't have a video of this mechanism so I quickly assembled these parts on a movement that is in the process of being serviced, and took this one:



    The part that looks sort of like a hatchet is the hour recorder hammer, and as I gently press and release the button at first you can see it swing down and then back - this shows how it is spring loaded, but away from the hour recording wheel. That wheel is under a small bridge, and when I do push the reset harder, the hammer contacts the cam on this wheel and spins it back to the zero position. Here when you reset you are working against the spring, not with it, so in this case if you press the reset slowly or not far enough, the hour recorder will not reset normally. The faster you push, the quicker the reset happens.

    Hope this helps explain how these two areas really work.

    Cheers, Al
    svorkoetter, nigelw, CMTFR and 2 others like this.

  7. #7
    Member King_Joe's Avatar
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    Re: 1861 Movement "soft" chrono reset?

    Quote Originally Posted by Archer View Post
    Are you sure this is affecting the minute counter, and not just the hour counter?

    The way these movements work, there are really 2 resets from 2 different locations. The minute and seconds recording hands are reset by the hammer on the back side of the watch. The hammer that resets both these counters at the same time is spring loaded, so as soon as it trips the spring brings that hammer down onto the cams of those two wheels to reset the hands. They should reset at the same time since it's one hammer that resets both. This video show the stop, start, and reset from the back side of the watch on an 861, which is the same as the 1861:



    When the start button is pushed, you can see the hammer swing up to the right, then when the stop button is pressed, it moves back slightly and is caught by a small pin known as the "stem bolt for hammer", and finally when the reset is pressed, that pin swings out of the way and the hammer comes down to reset both the wheels for the seconds recorder and the minute recorder. The second sequence shows what happens when that pin is missing - the watch resets when the stop button is pressed.

    So as you can see it would be unusual for the seconds and minutes to not reset together. And once the hammer is released by that pin, the speed of the reset is controlled by the spring, so how fast you press the button at that point has nothing to do with these two counters as the spring does all the work.

    The hour recorder is a completely separate part driven directly off the mainspring barrel, and this is under the dial. The hour recorder hammer is also under the dial, and this hammer is spring loaded also, but opposite to the other hammer - it is spring loaded away from the cam, not towards the cam. I didn't have a video of this mechanism so I quickly assembled these parts on a movement that is in the process of being serviced, and took this one:



    The part that looks sort of like a hatchet is the hour recorder hammer, and as I gently press and release the button at first you can see it swing down and then back - this shows how it is spring loaded, but away from the hour recording wheel. That wheel is under a small bridge, and when I do push the reset harder, the hammer contacts the cam on this wheel and spins it back to the zero position. Here when you reset you are working against the spring, not with it, so in this case if you press the reset slowly or not far enough, the hour recorder will not reset normally. The faster you push, the quicker the reset happens.

    Hope this helps explain how these two areas really work.

    Cheers, Al
    Indeed mine is just the hours hand that needs a strong press, and it all makes sense now. Thank you very much for the detailed explanation and response. It is really appreciated.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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