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  1. #91
    Member applebook's Avatar
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    An enlightening private discussion with Spacefruit has me curious...

    When I first decided to buy this '68 (26,557,6XX), I assumed that the hands weren't original, especially the chrono second hand, but when I received it, I noticed that they are closer matches to the dial than some pictures depict. The lume on the hour and minute hands are very close to the dial, while the chrono second hand is a lighter shade. What do you folks think? This is alleged to be a 2-owner watch, with the second owner having had it since 1972. It was last serviced and checked by Antiques in Time (2010).

    Is the dovetail hand even correct for this model? I don't know if I've ever seen a cal 861 with this. Also, the bezel matches the dial perfectly, but it isn't dot over 90. What do you think? Is it possible that the bezel was replaced very early (maybe '70s?), while the dovetail hand was a later addition (perhaps '80s?). They are definitely not recent OMEGA replacements.

    This picture is a better representation of the dial/hands color/condition:

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  2. #92
    Member jpm7791's Avatar
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Very solid, informative post. We should get something going along the lines of a database of board members with the S/Ns, movements, etc. of their Speedmasters to build a timeline.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by applebook View Post
    An enlightening private discussion with Spacefruit has me curious...

    When I first decided to buy this '68 (26,557,6XX), I assumed that the hands weren't original, especially the chrono second hand, but when I received it, I noticed that they are closer matches to the dial than some pictures depict. The lume on the hour and minute hands are very close to the dial, while the chrono second hand is a lighter shade. What do you folks think? This is alleged to be a 2-owner watch, with the second owner having had it since 1972. It was last serviced and checked by Antiques in Time (2010).

    Is the dovetail hand even correct for this model? I don't know if I've ever seen a cal 861 with this. Also, the bezel matches the dial perfectly, but it isn't dot over 90. What do you think? Is it possible that the bezel was replaced very early (maybe '70s?), while the dovetail hand was a later addition (perhaps '80s?). They are definitely not recent OMEGA replacements.

    This picture is a better representation of the dial/hands color/condition:
    My Transitional has the same hand configuration and my money would be on they are original to the watch. This Transitional large chronograph hand question comes up often and I think it is quite a gray area where no one, unless they were assembling Speedmasters in 1968, can definitively state this combination was not possible. Why would Omega service a watch in 1970 and reach back pre 1968 for a replacement chronograph hand? On the same line of thought why wouldn't Omega assemble a new 1968 Speedmaster and use the last of the old style hands in inventory to assemble the watch during the transition period until the inventory was depleted?

    I am of the opinion that the bezel is a later replacement. I thought the Dot over 90's were the only type produced going into late '68 and early '69.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Trannies. There's never a dull moment.

  4. #94
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by jpm7791 View Post
    Very solid, informative post. We should get something going along the lines of a database of board members with the S/Ns, movements, etc. of their Speedmasters to build a timeline.
    I think Speedy Adam has a pretty comprehensive list of Tranitionals going earlier in this thread.

  5. #95
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    I think 26,557,6XX did come with those hands. Can't really know for sure but, with matching patina and other close serial numbers like it, isn't it probable? These watches get much older it'll be hard to tell but right now we might be able to tell the difference between 20 and 40 years of patina. I bet some sellers have given watches...sun tans to help things match up and look the part but it's harder to fake how the hands can break down over time, get darker, start to peak through.

    I think the bezel is original too. That one of the lesser (quantity, not quality) manufactures made it. Does it affect value? We know the answer to that one. Should it? I don't think so but I get it. It just sucks that something can be original and be worth more if it was swapped with a different part.

    Some dials held up well, some minute marks flaked badly. Some bezels pop their black, some hold up fine. Different manufactures, different results.

    Here's a small list I've been collecting. Sorry if I'm sharing anyone's details (!) but I found everything out in the open so it shouldn't be a problem. Wish I could post the pics I have of them too but there's got to be a better way we start a Transitional registry. A chart to show patterns, if there can be with the different manufactures batches and other variables. But data is good and more the better.

    P = painted logo, H = early style chrono hand

    Cheers,
    Adam

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    Last edited by SpeedyAdam; March 4th, 2014 at 06:36.

  6. #96
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinghell34 View Post

    I am of the opinion that the bezel is a later replacement. I thought the Dot over 90's were the only type produced going into late '68 and early '69.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Trannies. There's never a dull moment.
    Uh...O...the Speedy Adam Transitional alert activated. I'll defer to his vast research into these pices when it comes to the bezel originality.

  7. #97
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Sorry to look typical "german, always improving stuff", but there are mistakes in this list:

    Speedyadam told himself in Posting #41, that SN 27324591 is from 26 June of 1969, in this list he himself dated it as 1968.

    Mine is dated by Omega from the 20. January of 1969 and therefore it makes sense to think of Omega as a company always trying to increase the serial numbers instead of mixing them.....

    Am I wrong ? Otherwise it comes to "As long as you got no record from Omega themselves, you should not talk about production year..."

    With kind regards Omega511

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  8. #98
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Sorry I didn't make that correction, Omega511. I agree, if Omega didn't say the production date, it's a guess. And yes the serial numbers jump around, out of order.

    Anyone know how to start a proper registry with pictures?

    Best,
    Adam
    Last edited by SpeedyAdam; March 4th, 2014 at 13:17.

  9. #99
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    My humble '69

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  10. #100
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by applebook View Post
    [LEFT]An enlightening private discussion with Spacefruit has me curious...

    When I first decided to buy this '68 (26,557,6XX)...
    Does anyone else think it's pretty freaky that my Transitional is also a serial 26,557,6XX ??
    That makes 3 of us on this thread with a Speedy in that range.

    PS - mine has the traditional 145.022 Chrono hand. All seems original to me. (This is the same pic I've posted in the past).


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