Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster! - Page 5
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  1. #41
    Member joe band's Avatar
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    the 145.022 was only the 861, and the applied logo dial had a different set of mounting posts.

    so if it is really a 321 it might be a 145.012 with a new or parts bin caseback or a swapped 321 movement in a 145.022. it would be a redflag for me, but you might be able to get it cheaper.

  2. #42
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    I agree it's a red flag for me as well and not looking to buy it. Just thought it was interesting in the context of conversation around transition from 145012 to 145022.

    It's a buy it now so hopefully no harm in posting the link - Vintage Omega Speedmaster 321 Steel Watch 145.022 | eBay

    If I'm reading the movement number correctly (26,552,537?) it does look like a very late 321 (in context of SpeedyAdam's earlier work) movement with an early 145.022 caseback. But yes - given the change to c861 was marked by changing to 145.022 reference it seems unlikely it should have left the factory like this.

    Anyway just thought it was worth mentioning - maybe the caseback was replaced very early in its life - it would seem like a strange swap to have made more recently.

  3. #43
    Member Andy K's Avatar
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeninBristol View Post
    I agree it's a red flag for me as well and not looking to buy it. Just thought it was interesting in the context of conversation around transition from 145012 to 145022.

    It's a buy it now so hopefully no harm in posting the link - Vintage Omega Speedmaster 321 Steel Watch 145.022 | eBay

    If I'm reading the movement number correctly (26,552,537?) it does look like a very late 321 (in context of SpeedyAdam's earlier work) movement with an early 145.022 caseback. But yes - given the change to c861 was marked by changing to 145.022 reference it seems unlikely it should have left the factory like this.

    Anyway just thought it was worth mentioning - maybe the caseback was replaced very early in its life - it would seem like a strange swap to have made more recently.
    I saw that auction too, and thought it was odd. There have been a number of 145.022's with 321 movements inside on eBay in recent months and I agree it's probably best to avoid unless you get it for parts or dirt cheap.

    What is of interest is to me is that serial is less than 700 higher than my 145.012-67, and within the same 1,000 as Michael Collins' Apollo 11 flown Speedy (26,552,xxx). So if nothing else, the movement has some cachet in that regard.
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  4. #44
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy K View Post
    I saw that auction too, and thought it was odd. There have been a number of 145.022's with 321 movements inside on eBay in recent months and I agree it's probably best to avoid unless you get it for parts or dirt cheap.

    What is of interest is to me is that serial is less than 700 higher than my 145.012-67, and within the same 1,000 as Michael Collins' Apollo 11 flown Speedy (26,552,xxx). So if nothing else, the movement has some cachet in that regard.
    Oh ok - it's the first I've seen (admittedly I haven't been looking too much recently) and a fairly quick search didn't throw up any other examples or mentions of such a combination. If you've seen a number of them then that changes things slightly to my mind! How many have you seen? Were they all 68s do you know?

    I know it flies in the face of accepted wisdom, but is there any chance there could have actually been some 321 equipped early 145.022s during this transitional period???

    It seems the more I learn the less I know when it comes to Speedmaster history! And that's what makes it even more interesting...

  5. #45
    Member Andy K's Avatar
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeninBristol View Post
    Oh ok - it's the first I've seen (admittedly I haven't been looking too much recently) and a fairly quick search didn't throw up any other examples or mentions of such a combination. If you've seen a number of them then that changes things slightly to my mind! How many have you seen? Were they all 68s do you know?

    I know it flies in the face of accepted wisdom, but is there any chance there could have actually been some 321 equipped early 145.022s during this transitional period???

    It seems the more I learn the less I know when it comes to Speedmaster history! And that's what makes it even more interesting...
    When I say a number of them, I would say maybe 3 or 4 since January, but some of them may be the same watch relisted. I posted the following thread a few weeks back in regards to this very question: Definition of a "transitional" Speedmaster

    My hunch was that these are probably to be incorrect as opposed to original, and based on Spacefruit's response in that thread my opinion still stands. There may have been cal .321 equipped 144.022s that left the factory that way, but I've never seen an Extract form the Archives or other reliable source say so. So that leads me to believe that the examples I've seen fall somewhere on the sliding scale between "service replacement caseback" and "poorly executed frankenwatch."

    You're absolutely right about one thing, the ambiguity is what makes vintage Speedmasters so interesting!
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  6. #46
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeninBristol View Post
    I agree it's a red flag for me as well and not looking to buy it. Just thought it was interesting in the context of conversation around transition from 145012 to 145022.

    It's a buy it now so hopefully no harm in posting the link - Vintage Omega Speedmaster 321 Steel Watch 145.022 | eBay

    ..............
    well based on the photos circumstantial evidence points to a put together watch. That bracelet certainly indicates work by someone unsympathetic to vintage. The dial and handset don't look attractive but those photos have been heavily retouched. In parts this watch would be worth $2000, or perhaps if one was eager, 2200. But it is a parts source, not a watch.

    i really don't think any 321's left the factory in 145.022 cases. But as ever, never say never with speedmaster production!

  7. #47
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacefruit View Post
    well based on the photos circumstantial evidence points to a put together watch. That bracelet certainly indicates work by someone unsympathetic to vintage. The dial and handset don't look attractive but those photos have been heavily retouched. In parts this watch would be worth $2000, or perhaps if one was eager, 2200. But it is a parts source, not a watch.

    i really don't think any 321's left the factory in 145.022 cases. But as ever, never say never with speedmaster production!
    Interesting - I hadn't seen that thread! And I guess that means I've now been guilty of hijacking this one.

    FWIW I agree with your views on this particular watch and also 321s in 145022 cases. At least until such times as evidence from a reliable source might come to light!

  8. #48
    Member Blaise's Avatar
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    Re: Lets see your Transitional 861 Speedmaster!

    Sorry guys but I had to resurrect the thread so I could join the club with my Transitional. It's a '68 with 27.323.XXX serial






  9. #49
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    My 145.68 ser #26.5564** Dec 68 Transitional

    Just to keep this great thread going, here is mine as purchased which is in good condition and had very little use. I guess a little clean up wouldn't do it any harm, although they are pretty magnified shots
    Attached Images Attached Images













    Last edited by T5aus; June 18th, 2013 at 00:57.

  10. #50
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    Re: My 145.68 ser #26.5564** Dec 68 Transitional

    Quote Originally Posted by T5aus View Post
    Just to keep this great thread going, here is mine as purchased which is in good condition and had very little use. I guess a little clean up wouldn't do it any harm, although they are pretty magnified shots
    That looks in beautiful condition, a fine watch.
    good find

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