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The "Official" Shogun Thread

503K views 2K replies 418 participants last post by  Evolutionary Reject 
#1 ·
So we have an official Tuna thread, official Sumo thread, official Solar Chrono thread...we definitely NEED an Official Shogun Thread. I know that this will not be as popular as the others given most enthusiast's opinion of the Shogun however I would love to see a nice collection of pictures, thoughts and opinions in one thread. I'll start:

I've had Swiss divers more than any others and in all honesty (and for various reasons) just have not been happy with them. I've owned several Seikos in the past and have flipped them...but always missed them when they were gone. I've also never been a fan of titanium as I preferred the heft of stainless but I did not want to let that limit my choices.

I did my research and the biggest issues I found were the price point and the use of the Monster style hands. Personally I really like the Monster style hour hand...it really lends to the overall design elements of the dial. Another issue was Hardlex being used as opposed to sapphire...again, no issue for me as I prefer this. That left price...so I sold off a few items and that no longer was an issue.

The Shogun was delivered two weeks ago and I've been wearing it non-stop. At first I was taken aback by the light weight...it just felt "cheap". Everything is titanium; case, bracelet and clasp. Despite how it felt it looked like a million bucks! I've got pretty big wrists so I didn't need to remove any links, just the micro-adjustment. I immediately put it on my wrist and all weight issues were forgotten. It's just such a beauty with it finely brushed finish and complimentary polished areas. The lugs are angular, though not to the extent of the Samurai. This aspect of case design isn't always captured in pictures.

I must say, the feel of titanium is just so silky that it really makes up for the lack of weight. In appearance the Shogun is the best of both worlds...looks like stainless but with the slightly darker grey of titanium.

A couple things I do not really like. The included "rubber" strap is cheap...it just doesn't feel cheap, it IS cheap. It does have titanium hardware but it is very thin and composed of plastic...very stiff and non-conforming. I'm also not a fan of the titanium bracelet...it's also quite thin. I guess being titanium bulk is not needed for strength but it just seems "weak"..



 
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#663 · (Edited)
Absolutely! That would be my Grail. As it stands my Shogun will not see an upgrade. It is the first watch I have ever owned that I did not tire of and a big part of that is the Diashield Ti. I am almost a one watch guy now since about March 2014. I also have a Tuna as a 40th Bday gift that I will not part with and 1 beater watch.

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#669 ·
Disappointed Unfortunately

I hate to put a damper on the abundant praise for theShogun, but I must say that as a new owner I am rather disappointedoverall. Let me preface this by saying Ialready own several SKX divers, a Sumo, and was also the owner of a Ti Samuraifor many years. Thus, I am thoroughlyfamiliar with Seiko divers but simply cannot get over the quality issues with myShogun.

The first issue isthe crystal. A mineral crystal on a $1Kwatch is simply poor value, end of story. Seiko's excuse that mineral crystal is more forgiving during diving isjust that, an excuse. These are deskdivers after all. Seiko already equipsall of their higher end divers (save the MM) with sapphire. Virtually every higher-end Swiss diver usessapphire and you do not see a swell of people shattering their brittle sapphirecrystals and crying out for mineral replacements. In reality it must simply be a matter ofcost. One might expect that Seiko would wish to delight their customers ratherthan compromising on quality. They are,after all, charging a $400+ price premium for the Shogun over the Sumo. Should that not buy more watch? The movements are identical. The dial and hands cannot cost more. So, the extra $400+ premium is devoted solelyto the different case and bracelet. Itcannot cost Seiko more than an extra $50 to equip this watch with sapphire, butthey instead choose to deliver a less satisfying customer experience despite the$1K price tag. During the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]week of ownership I secured my first crystal scratch. Now, every time I look at my Shogun, insteadof experiencing reinforced satisfaction and pride of ownership, I insteadexperience reinforced disappointment. Iam daily reminded that I now own a flawed watch. Why would Seiko risk daily customer disappointmentover the matter of a $50 crystal on a $1K watch? This is flawed strategy and it should becorrected.

The second issue is the bracelet. And here I simply cannot understand how so manyon this forum praise this aspect of the watch. I would ask other owners to look at the inner surface edges of thelinks, i.e. the edges that are exposed as you flex the bracelet. On my watch the edges are a mottled brownishpurple, almost as if they show the original forging marks, with absolutely zeroeffort to finish or polish these surfaces. The same is true of all the hidden parts of the clasp, almost as if the Diashieldtreatment itself was sprayed on, or vapor deposited upon an already assembledbracelet. Either way it looks sloppy andunfinished and inappropriate to a $1K watch. I have also quickly garnered micro scratches on the clasp, from mereoffice use. I happen to have severalolder Citizen watches with the Duratect TI finish and there is absolutely zerowear on these watches after many years of use, and with every part of thebracelet appropriately brushed or polished, even inner surfaces. This Seiko bracelet is simply not competitivewith the quality of the older cheaper Citizen bracelets.
All in all, I cannot understand the fascination with thiswatch vs. the Sumo and find it a poor value proposition. I welcome other opinions. Is your bracelet similar? Do the inner link surfaces look like theyjust came out of a forge? Would a $1KSwiss watch have a similar bracelet? Andwould it come with a mineral crystal? SomehowI doubt either would be the case. I willbe quickly selling this one.
 
#670 · (Edited)
I hate to put a damper on the abundant praise for theShogun, but I must say that as a new owner I am rather disappointedoverall. Let me preface this by saying Ialready own several SKX divers, a Sumo, and was also the owner of a Ti Samuraifor many years. Thus, I am thoroughlyfamiliar with Seiko divers but simply cannot get over the quality issues with myShogun.

The first issue isthe crystal. A mineral crystal on a $1Kwatch is simply poor value, end of story. Seiko's excuse that mineral crystal is more forgiving during diving isjust that, an excuse. These are deskdivers after all. Seiko already equipsall of their higher end divers (save the MM) with sapphire. Virtually every higher-end Swiss diver usessapphire and you do not see a swell of people shattering their brittle sapphirecrystals and crying out for mineral replacements. In reality it must simply be a matter ofcost. One might expect that Seiko would wish to delight their customers ratherthan compromising on quality. They are,after all, charging a $400+ price premium for the Shogun over the Sumo. Should that not buy more watch? The movements are identical. The dial and hands cannot cost more. So, the extra $400+ premium is devoted solelyto the different case and bracelet. Itcannot cost Seiko more than an extra $50 to equip this watch with sapphire, butthey instead choose to deliver a less satisfying customer experience despite the$1K price tag. During the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]week of ownership I secured my first crystal scratch. Now, every time I look at my Shogun, insteadof experiencing reinforced satisfaction and pride of ownership, I insteadexperience reinforced disappointment. Iam daily reminded that I now own a flawed watch. Why would Seiko risk daily customer disappointmentover the matter of a $50 crystal on a $1K watch? This is flawed strategy and it should becorrected.

The second issue is the bracelet. And here I simply cannot understand how so manyon this forum praise this aspect of the watch. I would ask other owners to look at the inner surface edges of thelinks, i.e. the edges that are exposed as you flex the bracelet. On my watch the edges are a mottled brownishpurple, almost as if they show the original forging marks, with absolutely zeroeffort to finish or polish these surfaces. The same is true of all the hidden parts of the clasp, almost as if the Diashieldtreatment itself was sprayed on, or vapor deposited upon an already assembledbracelet. Either way it looks sloppy andunfinished and inappropriate to a $1K watch. I have also quickly garnered micro scratches on the clasp, from mereoffice use. I happen to have severalolder Citizen watches with the Duratect TI finish and there is absolutely zerowear on these watches after many years of use, and with every part of thebracelet appropriately brushed or polished, even inner surfaces. This Seiko bracelet is simply not competitivewith the quality of the older cheaper Citizen bracelets.
All in all, I cannot understand the fascination with thiswatch vs. the Sumo and find it a poor value proposition. I welcome other opinions. Is your bracelet similar? Do the inner link surfaces look like theyjust came out of a forge? Would a $1KSwiss watch have a similar bracelet? Andwould it come with a mineral crystal? SomehowI doubt either would be the case. I willbe quickly selling this one.
Sorry to hear you don't like it. I have owned almost every sub $1000 Seiko 200m diver made in the last 7 to 10 years and this is hands down the best. I have been at this for a lot of years and appreciate the fine detail and design that went into this watch. Guys coming from higher end Swiss brands have echoed these thoughts.

I do not have the brownish thing going on with my bracelet and the Hardex is way tougher then what is on a Orange Monster. 6 months of nearly daily wear and no crystal scratch. I do have micro scratches on the clasp and bracelet from heavy wear, but it is about 95% less than stainless would have. Watches don't stay new.

But to each their own. We all like different things and have different expectations.

It will sell quickly.

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#673 · (Edited)
Re: Disappointed Unfortunately

Perhaps it is just me. Does anyone else's bracelet link edges look like this?

View attachment 1799130 [u/QUOTE]

have you tried cleaning it at all? and as for the hardlex crystal, I wonder what caused your scratch.

anyway, I just saw the 2014-2015 Seiko catalogue in Tokyo recently and surprisingly the Shogun is not there anymore.
 
#675 ·
I read this happen to one other member. They worked a replacement through the dealer they bought it from. Replacement was reported to be perfect. Maybe it was a bad Diashield treatment and is also effecting the scratch resistance issue you reported.

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#679 ·
First, Seiko seems to use Hardex in all their divers, except the GS diver, based on a brand position that, for a diver, if the crystal gets hit under pressure (i.e. actually diving), Hardex is more likely to crack but not fail, whereas sapphire is more likely to shatter and fail. As you point out, cost is clearly not the factor, because sapphire may cost Seiko $25 or so to add in, and even $350 Sarb's and other similar priced Seiko non-divers have sapphire. The exception is the GS, and again, as you point out, the extra $25 is not why Seiko uses sapphire vs. harder for a watch at that price.
This is a fallacy, I can't remember the article but the head of Seiko acknowledges it is a decision based on cost. The crystal in a sarb isn't the same as the double domed hardlex in the Tuna or MM300. Sapphire is much more prone to micro cracks so the failure rates is much higher than with hardlex. So to make a proper sapphire for the MM300 or Tuna it would be much more costly.

This idea that Seiko uses hardlex over sapphire because of some functional reason is patently false.
 
#680 · (Edited)
I have a Presage with a sapphire front and caseback. The whole watch cost me about $400 new. I also saw a bunch of other Seiko dress models with sapphire for around the same price or less.

Yet, nearly all sport Seiko's have hardlex even if they cost more than double the dress models.

Question is, if cost was the main or only consideration, why are they able to put sapphire on much cheaper watches?

That's why I tend to agree that there must be some other reason as to why they use hardlex on sports models.

Anyway, here's a link to a Seiko engineer's response:

http://www.thewatchsite.com/29-toku...-explanation-about-materials-watch-glass.html
 
#685 ·
This discussion is of interest to me. The Shogun is my favorite of the Seiko diver line, and the mineral crystal is the main reason I haven't purchased one. I am frankly not interested in shatter resistance or pressure testing. What happens if it knocks into a door jamb, something that happens to me on a fairly regular basis, usually carrying boxes at work. Will that scratch the crystal? Because it won't on a sapphire watch (and hasn't shattered any yet, either). I don't mind marks on the case and bracelet, but I want the crystal to be clear.
 
#690 ·
"... the other big thing that is holding me back is the bracelet - I don't really like the way the links are all one piece, and also the middle segments seem to be slightly raised above the outside ones. Is this true? I tend to like "looser" oysters that have a lot of movement to them (not cheap, poor build quality movement, but in terms of joints / articulation) vs stiffer ones like on my SARB033, which also has the one-piece links but the middle part is flush w/ the others, not raised. Can anybody comment on this, especially if you have any thoughts or issues w/ it? Maybe it is something that bothers me looking at it now, but when I actually see it in person and wear it wouldn't really bother me ? I have heard it's very comfortable, but I don't know - I just don't like the look of it."...

Personally, I really don’t like the bracelet design. As you noted, the links are single molded pieces, with a slightly raised center. But what I really find distasteful is that, rather than having the outer link segment top and bottom edges totally perpendicular to the length of the bracelet, they are slightly upward sloping. The result is a slightly Y-shaped link. The added result is that, as the bracelet curves around your wrist, the upward sloping parts of the Y-shape, point slightly outward as a by-product of their design, and form hard points. The effect is rather modest to be sure, but as I feel around the outside of the bracelet as it sits on my wrist I feel these sharp points, rather than feeling a supple and smooth gradation, which would be the result if the links were “square-molded” so to speak. The classic oyster-style works for a reason – when you mess with it as Seiko has done here I think you move away from functionality, rather than increasing it. It greatly degrades the aesthetic for me -- just one owner’s opinion
 
#691 ·
New owner of a Shogun here. I only got watches as gifts and have a few Seiko 5's so this is my first real watch purchase. Love the watch. I haven't been wearing one for awhile now that I started to try out fitness trackers. I keep forgetting I have a watch on. It truly is comfortable. I only got it for 4 days now. Had a bit of time trying to adjust the wristband with the pin/collars but got through it. Funny I used a paper clip to poke out the pin after using a tool that was not deep enough. I kept looking for the collar and finally found it stuck on the paperclip. Almost gone mad.

Anyways, one question I have. It seems to be going fast...about 10-12 sec per day. I read that there might be a break in period or "tap" the watch???

Should I worry or just wait it out a bit?
 
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