OCEAN7 History 2 * LOCKED *

[Serafino]

Do you think this is true of Bell&Ross?

Nice Ocean7 logo btw

Bell & Ross is a different animal. Originally, they remarketed Sinn models in the USA due to a trademark issue IIRC. All of their early watches were made by Sinn. Now, they are very well financed and have an impressive facility in La Chaux de Fonds, Switzerland.

They were distributed by Wings of Time out of Florida (who's owner later closed the company and is became an executive with Technomarine) and slowly built up brand awareness in the USA. Nothing about the origins of B&R mirror those of smaller companies mention here IMO and they always struck out for a significantly higher price point. As such, even in the early days their marketing and promotion campaigns were very well developed and they launched with a mature and comprehensive product range.

[Serafino]

Would you rather have a Hyundai with every available option for $X, or a basic Mercedes Benz for $Y? I'll pay the additional 37% for the Benz all day long. Being a fickle WIS, I always have concerns about resale value. People, the Hyundai won't have a resale value compared to the Mercedes. Fricker (Mercedes), no question. Ocean7 will have INSTANT credibility with the German case, and will have to earn every bit of it with the Asian. Mitch, please post the final logo as well.

Re: Cars - Interesting point but the same could have been said about Toyota (see Lexus), Honda (Acura), etc., a generation ago. Korean companies are rapidly expanding and gaining a reputation for quality and innovation (see Samsung which has not grown bigger than Sony). Mark my words, Hyundai will grow significantly over the next 10 years and move upmarket within 5 years. Both Samsung and Hyundai were significant Olympic title sponsors in 2004 and have very broad global ambitions.

As for Mercedes, I've owned quite a few but they don't share the same reputation in Europe where E-Classes are ubiquitous as Taxis and A and B classes have brought the brand down market to an European econobox price point. Quality is also something that needs to be addressed as it teeters at the lower end of the luxury scale

[dibetu]

Please go for German or Swiss made, as with everything in life, you get what you pay for. In this case quality. For 175 USD extra no question. Even for 300 extra. I can also assure you Mitch and LaHugh, that you will be saving yourselves a lot of headache. With an Asian made you will need to inspect every detail under the microscope, for every single watch, or you will pay for it at the end. With the European option you can rest assured that you will get a quality product.

[Serafino]

On what basis is this prejudice against Asian made being founded. There obviously Japanese companies which are world class in terms of finish, movements, etc.

XTropper, once again you fail to reinforce our point that Swiss Made watches have higher resale value. I'm talking about upper end Seiko, Citizen, Casio vs. anything Swiss other than Rolex, Patek, etc.

Show me some examples. I've quoted plenty but you simply state something as if its fact ... which its not. Quality and rarity = good reputation = good resale. Irrelevant whether is a Prospex, Credor, Grand Seiko or Omega, Breitling, etc. Limited Edition Casio G-Shocks of all things have far higher resale values (doubling or tripling their issue prices) than almost anything else for goodness sakes.

Vast generalizations are always troublesome IMO.

[Malyel]

I just think there is more chance of shenanigans when dealing with some small Asian watch manufactures.

I would hate to make a great design and later have the case manufacturer sell extra cases to a guy in Hong Kong who sells on eBay.

Even a few years I remember hearing about fake Orsa watches showing up. I don't know if they were leftover cases sold but it probably hurt Orsa's name starting out.

One Asian small production house watch that troubled me recently was the RXW MM20. Originally the watch had great resale value. I think some may have traded for close to $2000. Unfortunately, last year versions of the watch made with cheap Russian movements started showing up in the $200-$300 range. These "fake" watches have hurt the resale value of a good watch. I don't know how all these cases were unloaded on the market but I am sure it had to do with the Panerai lawsuit.

I think dealing with Germany there is less chance of something unexpected happening.

[MitchSF]

I just think there is more chance of shenanigans when dealing with some small Asian watch manufactures.

This is one of our concerns. Also, when you work through agents, and it's almost impossible to work directly with an Asian factory, even though you're promised Swiss quality, you don't know until you get the watches.

Mitch

[th6252]

with all due respect, serafino, i think your conclusions are only founded if talking about japanese products, not chinese. although japan-made products are on par with european-made, most people know that the chinese-made products are not on par with either. for the money, they make an adequate product, but are definitely lagging behind when it comes to pure quality. with the case being made in china, i think quality control will be a big issue, whereas not so much with a euro or japanese product.
it seems you're assuming the case will be produced in japan, while i think most here are assuming the case will be made in china. as i've said before, big difference.

[reactionary]

The logo looks real good... any decision on where the watch will be made?

[XTrooper]

I'm talking about upper end Seiko, Citizen, Casio vs. anything Swiss other than Rolex, Patek, etc.

You may be talking about upper-end Seikos, Citizens, and Casios, but they're completely irrelevant to the question at hand.

First, neither Seiko, Citizen or Casio will be making the Ocean7 watch so what their resale value may or may not be is immaterial. As already stated, if made in Asia, the Ocean7 will likely be manufactured by some nameless Chinese outfit. Check the retail and resale value of these type watches if you want a relevant comparison.

Secondly, Ocean7 is new and unknown and won't have the name recognition any of the Japanese watchmakers do for years and certainly not right out of the gate. The reputation and price point of those upper-end Japanese watches you point to (understandable so, as they're the only Asian watches that allow your argument to work) didn't evolve overnight. It took decades for Seiko et al to build up their reputation and consequently their value.

On the other hand, the term "Swiss Made" gives a watch instant legitimacy and credibility in the eyes of the world. It's no accident that when a watch is made in Switzerland or has a Swiss movement that this fact NEVER goes unmentioned and will be emblazoned either on the watch or be noted in its literature or both. Why? Because "Swiss Made" still equals "Best Quality" to most! Ask almost anyone on the street where the best watches and clocks in the world are made and I think you know what the answer will be. Hint: the answer won't be Japan or China.

[MitchSF]

No updates at this point. We're still waiting for the final quote.


Does anyone have an example of a metric decompression bezel?

Mitch