How accurate is the VO2 MAX on the Ambit?

[Clevor]

I was surprised to see this show up in Movescount - what a bonus! But I imagine it might not be totally accurate. Anybody know how the Ambit calculates VO2 MAX? Because normally you'd have to see a sports physician, who puts you on a treadmill and measure your breathing input/output and do some other stuff.

But from the readings I get for myself, I guess it's pretty accurate . It's nowhere near >65 (for most pro road cyclists), or in the 80-90 range like Lance Armstrong, Floyd Landis, Cadel Evans, or Ivan Basso.

[jcgoobee]

Thanks for confirming this, Clevor. I was thinking the same because I have not noticed any settings on VO2 from the Movescount at all, nor I know how to adjust it anyway.

[jkm00]

I'm pretty sure that work with firstbeat, alternatively they use the same basic science. The whitepapers are interesting, knock yourself out :)
White papers | Physiology | Firstbeat
Research and publications | Physiology | Firstbeat

[jcgoobee]

Wow, now that's technical materials to read. I can't say I understand more than 1/3 of what they're talking about in the white paper (EPOC and Oxygen consumption), but will certainly try again when I have some more free time later. Thanks for passing along. :)

[Clevor]

I'm pretty sure that work with firstbeat, alternatively they use the same basic science. The whitepapers are interesting, knock yourself out :)
White papers | Physiology | Firstbeat
Research and publications | Physiology | Firstbeat

Thanks for the info. I had guessed it must use heartrate, possibly based on age (respiration?), since there is no other parameter the Ambit is measuring. It's also how HR monitors/cyclocomputers estimate calories burned.

Jcgoobee, you can't adjust anything about VO2 MAX in Movescount; it's a calculation based on heartrate and how fast you are running a lap, I'd say. The faster you are running a lap, the higher it will be. To put it simplisticly, the faster you can run a lap and the lower the heart rate, I imagine the higher the VO2 MAX would be.

[jcgoobee]

Hey Clevor, thanks for the clarification. I do have a couple of follow up questions to you and jkm00 though. They might be super silly ones but hey, I'd never learn if I don't ask.

Questions 1, when exactly should I start pretting the "Start" button when I exercise? Should I "start" while warming up, or when I actually start running? In addition, should I "Stop" after I cool down, or immediately after I stop running? I'm a bit confused on that part.

Question 2, I notice that my PTE value continues to drop, even I run the same route and the same pace. Is this normal? I thought the PTE is an indicator of how well the training is doing to my body. For instance, 2 for maintaining, and 3 for improving. When I first got my Ambit on 5/5, the PTE value used to be 3.3 and now 2.6! Is this normal? If I do the same exercise, why would it continue to drop?

Thanks in advance for helping me out.

[eeun]

jcgoobee

I'll add the caveat that I'm no expert but I have been training with a 6TD for about 5 months and now have an Ambit too. I did a VO2 max test in lab conditions in December and I entered the details into the T6D using METS. I've seen my VO2 Max jump recently as measured by the T6D and I am sure that my fitness is improving quite a bit as my running is getting faster over a specific distance (less time to complete the set distance) and my off-road cycling fitness is improving also. Calorie burn has dropped a little and my PTE is also a little lower than it was - both of which I put down to improved fitness. I think my body is getting used to my training levels and it's time to up the level again!

So I think your drop is probably due to an improved fitness level (unless you are just not working as hard as you were). For me getting PTE much above 4 is proving very hard now unless I run for quite a while and at a hot pace where my HR is 90%+ for the duration of the run. Cycling seems never to get above 3.8.

As for warm up and warm down, I guess it depends on what you want to monitor. I tend to start after monitoring after a warm up for PT sessions and stop it immediately but for running and cycling or more general gym work, weights etc I tend to start it when I start the warmup and stop it after a warm down. I also stop, save and start a fresh when I switch - so if I have a 45 run followed by 45 mins in the gym I will measure each session individually.

I don't claim to understand it all but it's pretty good using moves count and tracking progress and I am definitely getting fitter though as I said it's getting to be much harder work to push myself these days then when I first started.

[jcgoobee]

Hi there, eeun,

Thank you very much for the details about VO2 and PTE. Now that makes more sense now, to see my PTE continues to drop just because my fitness level is improving. I still run the same pace and distance every day, but I feel that I could run farther and not as exhausted as I used to be. Granted I still sweat a lot, but I'm so glad that the daily hard work pays off.

The PTE/EPOC is a valuable tool, to determine the fitness level and see how one can push himself/herself harder to acheive for the higher PTE. I'm so glad that Ambit incorporates the GPS and HR functions altogether, so I can keep track of my performance realistically. Paying more than $500 is a lot for a plastic watch, but I'm very satisfied with its quality and even my wife didn't critisize my purchase this time. :)

Thanks!

[Clevor]

Wow, your guys PTE is that low??? Mine is always above 5 or maxed out, but since I got the Ambit, now I know why!

You guys are obviously running/training regularly. I only jog every other week so I can't get fit at it. Moreover, I got a high max heart rate (200 bpm), and this spells trouble. Because due to my inefficiency, I have to use most of that max heart rate to run as fast as somebody else who is more fit.

Since I got the Ambit and saw my heartrate during a run, I said Holy Sh_t! I'm averaging close to 180 bpm. I mean that is like doing a (single) training interval on a bike at 90% of max heart rate for 36 minutes! Or like doing a time trial. On my last run, I maxed at 194 (and I didn't even feel that bad on that run). No wonder I hate that 3.6 mile jog. So thanks to the Ambit, I feel compelled to back off and relax more during a run, and even walk at certain points. I'm not a pro who's training so I don't need to kill myself.

I've used a HR meter when I was mountain biking or now when I road cycle, but I never used one on a jog. Needless to say, I'm not cut out to be much of a runner. The main reason why I jog now is for cross training to keep aerobically fit. It also works different muscles than cycling. I certainly don't do it because I like it.

As for when to turn it on during exercise, I just start it when I start a jog (after warming up) and stop it when I'm finished (before cooldown).

[eeun]

I should add I only had the Ambit for a week but have been using a T6D for 5 months so PTE I guess for me should be TE as it is on the T6D which only goes to level 5. There's no escaping the fact that as fitness improves your heart rate will drop as the effort you expend gets lower for any given level of activity - therefore the PTE will drop accordingly which is good. The bad news is as you get fitter you have to work much harder to make improvements and it's good to mix up your training so the body doesn't get over conditioned to one type of activity. So to push PTE back up you'll need to work harder. Calorie burn drops with fitness too - a bugg@ if you're trying to lose weight (as I am) as well as get fitter.

Clevor, Your max heart rate is hardwired - it's genetic/how you were born and it lowers with age - mine's now 170 bpm. When I run hard (for me that is) on a 5k run I can hit 167 bpm and will average over 156 bmp, never dropping below 90% MHR. PTE will typically be 4.5ish currently (on T6D). I had been running 2 or sometimes 3 times per week until I pulled my hamstring and I'm in recovery so no running for another 2 weeks I'm still pretty active in the gym and with my mountain biking. Like you I run for fitness not enjoyment as MTB is my main focus.

I'd suggest you try and run 2 or ideally 3 time a week for at least 30 mins if you want to improve your fitness. You might want to check out a book 'Brain Training for Runners' by Matt Fitzgerald. He talks about training your brain to 'not give in' when the going gets tough and I'm finding it very enlightening. I'm finding running less of a chore and almost enjoyable after 3 months of doing it but it is hard work.

Check out this Suunto link Suunto Training parametres - YouTube