Looking for comments and opinions on the Sinn 358 Diapal

[evosam]

Hey all,

Looking at this piece, but there doesn't seem to be that much field comments on it.

Wondering if any of the folks here have one and can provide this comments and opinions on it.

Also if you've seen or handled one in real life.

Looking specifically at observations on the domed sapphire crystal and of course the Diapal movement and the GMT function.

Thanks in advance

-Sam

[rationaltime]

Hi Sam,

The Sinn 358 model was introduced last year. So, there are not many
around for people to show us. I have not seen a real 358 model. The
movement has been used for (I think) about 10 years.

The skeleton UTC hand rotates once in 12 hours, and adjusts without
stopping the movement. I think it is handy for reading UTC. If you don't
want to see it for a while you can hide the UTC hand behind the hour hand,
and it will stay there.

Members "jroof" and "sennheiserz" posted (there) about their Sinn 358
Jubilaum watches, which use the same domed sapphire crystal. I could
be happy with acrylic, but the sapphire might impart a pleasing color at
certain angles. I don't know. I would like to see it.

In my opinion the grey metallic dial with black sub-dials looks very nice.
It imparts a kind of subtle but eye catching appearance to the dial. The
grey dial is worth checking out. If price is not a primary concern, and a
new watch is ordered I suggest asking about a build with the yellow UTC
hand from the Sinn 103 UTC. That little bit of color would go nicely with
the grey dial. You don't mention your location. A trip to Germany would
let you examine one of these.

If you do get the 358 Diapal please some back and post some photos.

Thanks,
rationaltime

[hydrocarbon]

I've seen it in Frankfurt. I prefer the 356 aesthetically, and just as a matter of principle, I'd recommend the 356 over the 358.

The 358 is a fine-looking watch and everything, but following the already-played-out big-watch trend seems very un-German to me. And I say this as someone with a wrist proportionate to my 2 meter height and 110 kilo frame - 6'7" and 240 lbs to those who are international-unit-challenged. When I first got my 356 UTC I also had recently bought some Steinhart monstrosity (now long gone), and I thought it looked small. However, as I began to get more of a clue, the 356 became my absolute go-to in the stable, even amid other classic designs such as the non-ceramic Rolex GMT. The 356 wears about the same as the GMT anyway because of the size of the dial and its burger-ish thickness. I'm not saying that the 358 is clownishly sized or anything, but I figure if you're dead-set on a larger chrono in that style, get a 103 and you'll have a handy and good-looking bezel as well.

One great thing about the 358 is that it's available in acrylic and with a solid case back, so I'll give it points for that. I really think it's good that Sinn has some acrylic crystals in the range, since I adore the history, functionality and robustness of sexy plexi. I often find sapphire to be a bit sterile and it's going to be very exposed to knocks with a huge dome like on the 358. At least it has rounded edges so it won't be as chip-prone as some, but it would absolutely suck if it got smashed, whereas you can pretty much hit acrylic with a hammer and it will bounce off, although probably not without leaving some evidence. If you're considering sapphire, I don't recommend paying for that "upgrade".

[evosam]

Thanks so much for the insight into the watch - I had no idea that I might be able to do some minor customization to the piece. As you suggested, I think a colored UTC hand would be a welcome addition.

Unfortunately I am based in the US and the only retailer seems to be online.

Do you happen to know if I can order directly from Sinn in Germany and have them ship it overseas or would I have to go through ......s in my own geo?

Other alternative I guess would be to go to Canada or wait until I have a business trip to Asia.

Thanks again

-Sam

Hi Sam,

The Sinn 358 model was introduced last year. So, there are not many
around for people to show us. I have not seen a real 358 model. The
movement has been used for (I think) about 10 years.

The skeleton UTC hand rotates once in 12 hours, and adjusts without
stopping the movement. I think it is handy for reading UTC. If you don't
want to see it for a while you can hide the UTC hand behind the hour hand,
and it will stay there.

Members "jroof" and "sennheiserz" posted (there) about their Sinn 358
Jubilaum watches, which use the same domed sapphire crystal. I could
be happy with acrylic, but the sapphire might impart a pleasing color at
certain angles. I don't know. I would like to see it.

In my opinion the grey metallic dial with black sub-dials looks very nice.
It imparts a kind of subtle but eye catching appearance to the dial. The
grey dial is worth checking out. If price is not a primary concern, and a
new watch is ordered I suggest asking about a build with the yellow UTC
hand from the Sinn 103 UTC. That little bit of color would go nicely with
the grey dial. You don't mention your location. A trip to Germany would
let you examine one of these.

If you do get the 358 Diapal please some back and post some photos.

Thanks,
rationaltime

[evosam]

Thanks for the reply and comments Hydrocarbon.

With the 356 line however, I don't believe I can get a DIAPAL option... do you think that the DIAPAL does not offer enough value and reliability over the standard movement?

Thanks

-Sam

[rationaltime]

... Unfortunately I am based in the US and the only retailer seems to be online.

Do you happen to know if I can order directly from Sinn in Germany and have them ship it overseas or would I have to go through ......s in my own geo?

Other alternative I guess would be to go to Canada or wait until I have a business trip to Asia.

Thanks again

-Sam

Hi Sam,

I am pretty sure neither the factory nor any authorized Sinn dealer
other than WatchBuys will ship a new Sinn watch to you in the US.

I don't know the chance of finding a Sinn 358 Diapal in Asia. It
wouldn't hurt to look, but I wouldn't buy there. We hear the Sinn
prices at Asian dealers are noticeably more expensive than from
WatchBuys. To examine a 358 Diapal and take it home with you
I suggest the factory or a German dealer. Some German dealers
are Sinn repair centers. If you decided to make the purchase the
dealer could make a hand swap for the yellow UTC hand without
a big delay or upsetting the warranty. If there were a performance
issue the German dealer could take care of you without a long wait.
In my opinion that would be the low cost, low risk plan. If you can
get to Germany we can recommend a Sinn dealer.

The Valjoux 7750 is pretty reliable. I don't know how much to make
of the Diapal escapement. The oil free escapement and the five year
factory warranty give some peace of mind. It there were an issue
you would not get the story "maybe the oils dried up". Along with
the Diapal escapement comes the UTC function, grey and black dial,
sapphire crystals, and desiccant system. Is it worth the cost
difference? I think not to everyone. If it appeals to you and fits in
your budget I think it will be satisfying.

You don't list your location. Perhaps there is a member with a
different Diapal model near by. You might be able to get a look.
You really have to see that grey and black dial to feel it call to you.


Thanks,
rationaltime

[hydrocarbon]

If you're worried about value, I wouldn't pay the premium for Diapal. I'm sure it's cool and all, but it doesn't mean that much to me on a 7750.

Another thing is that the Diapal ones only come in sapphire. Not only is acrylic far better bang for the buck, but I'd also opt for acrylic even if they were priced the same. I also don't think transparent case backs belong on pilot's watches, particularly when they have ETA-sourced movements. I'm not sure of the exact pricing where you are, but generally you can have at two to three acrylic 356s for the cost of a 358 Diapal, and the 356 is the better-proportioned and more classic watch. The 7750 is a rock solid movement so I wouldn't worry about reliability. You might get longer service intervals with the diamond pallet escapement, but the jury won't be weighing in on that until years from now.

I say buy what you like and looks good to you, rather than comparing features like it's some kind of consumer-electronics thing. For me, the Diapal is negated by the sapphire crystal back. Cripes, you can find 1675/16750/16700/16710 Rolex GMTs or 16570 Explorer IIs in good shape for the cost of a new 358 Diapal. As much as I can't stand modern Omegas, I do think the handwound Speedmaster is a very decent watch and it's around that price range as well. I love Sinn and think their basic models represent the best bang for the buck - along with Nomos - in currently-produced watches, but for nearly $4000 there are far more desirable options.

[Hawthorn]

Hi this is my first post, I have a Sinn 857 UTC, I askedSinn (the Australian Authorized Dealer) if they could change the UTC hand overfor a larger one , they spoke to Sinn Germany said they couldn't. I don't thinkthey like to customize their watches on request but no harm in asking.
This is a bit off the 358 UTC Diapal track but I think sapphire crystal on a pilot watch is far better than plexiglass. Imagine that pilotswant excellent readability on their watches, if you scratched the face of yourwatch by scraping the plexi on the tarmac or in the wheel bay while checking somethingunder the aircraft before a flight, your watch would suddenly loose thereadability factor which you paid so much for. Sapphire is made of the RightStuff.
Secondly pilots aren't likely to smash sapphire crystal whenthey fly as they are usually just sitting down not waving their arms around.The sapphire might break if your crash but then that’s the last of yourworries. Plexi might look nice, it might be better in space although the X-33has domed anti-reflective, scratch-resistant sapphire crystal. The X33 isprobably the ultimate pilot watch despite its ugliness. Yes look at anythinglong enough and it will become beautiful, think of how this may have led tosome regretful decisions in your life –add beer to this mix and you might knowwhat I mean (this is a well-known psychological phenomenon even without adding the beer). Think about what the X-33 lookedlike the first time you saw one, I thought that is one FUGLY SOB. I still thinkthat, which is why despite its cool tool factor I can’t bring myself to buyone. If I worked for NASA and they gave me one, sure I would wear it to work.
Putting plastic on an expensive watch is nothing more thanclever marketing that saves the watch companies money so they can sell it topeople who understandably all wanted to be astronauts when they were young, andsecretly still harbour this desire. The only watch I would buy with plexi is anoriginal Speedmaster because of its historical accuracy but I’m not spendingover $2000 for a second hand plastic domed watch, owned and abused by an untoldnumbers of owners when I can but a brand new Sinn with sapphire (orplexi) which is made much better for the same price. A new Speedmaster on Amazon is $3600, a newSinn 358 Sa Flieger from an authorized dealer is $3200. To me there is only onesensible and sane choice, buy the Sinn; it’s far better bang for your buck. PS YesOmega might have better resale value but that doesn’t negate what I saidearlier.
I came to this conclusion after a serious bout of longing forand consequently researching the Omega Speedmaster Professional. I spent twoweeks looking at pictures of them, researching every review and customer feedbackever written, watching prices on e-bay and Amazon, we all know the fun part isin the hunt. I nearly got sucked intothe plexi glass thing, everyone said buy plexi glass version because itshistorically accurate, looks better, you can just buff the scratches out, bla bla bla, but my spider senses, I mean pilotsenses started tingling. I suddenly snappedout of the marketing hype, I suddenly had clarity of thought, it was almost anemotional experience. I realised that plexi is cheap quality, old fashioned andnot practical, add those three qualities together and I knew I was being takenfor a ride by some very smart marketing people at Omega.
Thank you Omega for providing this journey for me, it was very engrossing and it didn’t cost me anything.

[Mpardun]

I love my 358 DIAPAL - time will tell (although i take comfort in the 5 year warranty). I would do it again in a heartbeat, great size, classic look, excellent time keeper, UTC is nice (when you want/need it...hides when you don't).

Only regret, for just under $4k, the case should be tegimented! Next Sinn...UX.

Bought from WatchBuys early in 2012, added a few straps to mix things up: Blue shark with Sinn deployant clasp and a Dangerous 9 hornback American Alligator (antiqued) with Sinn deployant clasp - shown below.

[MRobert]

I love my 358 DIAPAL - time will tell (although i take comfort in the 5 year warranty). I would do it again in a heartbeat, great size, classic look, excellent time keeper, UTC is nice (when you want/need it...hides when you don't).

Only regret, for just under $4k, the case should be tegimented! Next Sinn...UX.

Bought from WatchBuys early in 2012, added a few straps to mix things up: Blue shark with Sinn deployant clasp and a Dangerous 9 hornback American Alligator (antiqued) with Sinn deployant clasp - shown below.

OT: nice strap (and M//)!