SOS - Sinn Owners of Singapore

[Sinnerman]

My sincere apologies to Prof Tan if my comments about the "rewards" issue was misconstrued. I had meant it in tongue and cheek but on second thought, as pointed out by both moderators, where in the internet, there is a possibility where it can be misconstrued. I am sorry that I was not conscious enough to discern between clear language and otherwise and hereby would like to offer my apologies.

It is not my intention to cause mischieve or stir up trouble in a world class forum like this nor give the mods any trouble. I will try to be more careful with my words next time and if I foul up, pse forgive me.

KoolKat,

Your sincere apology is accepted and I will be more than happy to lay this matter to rest.

My thanks to the moderators especially Timothy who had taken some effort to resolve this matter. For his benefit and those who are like minded to create a great community of likeminded collectors, I would like to share a thought about how Forums become great Forums that are admired.

The two key component of any great forum is the strength of the common interest (in this case, Sinn Watches) and the strength of the community itself. I am sure many are familiar with the many forums which began and sustained itself as backslappers and congratulators.

How can they grow to become more than that? The forums that grown to be influential and respected are the ones that have strong and wise moderators who are able to influence its members to behave gentlemanly - like in a private club so to say which results in an environment of mutual respect where those who can contribute can do so with ease and comfort – and without fear of being personally attacked or being flamed.

In forums where words are exchanged without due consideration and value, members leave and do not come back.

How would/should a forum manage the exchanges in a civilised way to keep the community happy? Oddly enough, statistics would show that communities that self regulate first and foremost have the greatest esprit de corp and association to the group.

By this, I mean to commend Raffles in his effort in keeping his peers in line when an error in judgment is clearly needed to be corrected. If the majority of this sub-community stood up to stop silly posts, you will find that silly post will soon disappear. The dynamics of like minded and upright community members will shine through.

However, when you have members like SJACKAL of this sub-forum telling Raffles to stay out of the discussion, when he knows that the post was morally incorrect, well a lot of respect is lost for that community.

I am the first to admit that it is our nature - and some would say our Singaporean propensity- to "stay out of trouble". But I would put it to those who believe in this philosophy - what value would there be in making a real contribution to the community if the community does not look to hold what is correct and just?

Saving that, it would be the moderator's time and effort to keep all in line is the last line before everything breaks down. In that respect, I am so glad that both Martin and Timothy had been exemplary in dealing with what has happened here in this thread. Its through them I have faith that the Sinn Forum as a whole will continue to grow.

For the Singaporean sub-community of Sinn collectors, I hope things will change for the better. Simply put, treat your online community as you would your own household or even village. This will serve to bond the ties within it. I wish you all the best for the future.

[SJACKAL]

Oh just differences in opinion, Prof Tan, nothing more. :)

If I wished to 'stay out of trouble' in the first place, I would not had post anything in the first place. :) Its just because I felt that in a misunderstanding on a forum board, unsolicated comments and exchanges from uninvolved members easily and quickly goes out of control and these just serves to generate more bad feelings among the people involved, often resulting in flame wars.

I am sure thats why Tim requested the same, as quoted in my previous post. :)

I am glad that things work out fine.

[Kool Cat]

Tim, no disrespect to you, and you are a great guy but I hereby officially will no longer participate in this Sinn forum.

I simply cannot understand how this matter was supposedly laid to rest and then my post became "morally incorrect".

This is my final post and I wish Ernie, Martin and yourself the best in your endeavours. However, I will keep in touch with you on a personal basis if you wish to.

Cheers!

Kool Cat signing off

[waypoint]

Huh? WTF? What happened here?

While I understand that conversations held over such a medium may not correctly convey the tone of the message due to the lack of other 'inputs' like tone of voice and body language. But surely, that's what smilies are for aren't they? And as what Kool Cat had mentioned, it was merely made in jest! Nothing more. Don't get me wrong, I do not know Kool Cat personally, but I think he's been made a victim of character assassination!

Sinnerman, I think you've been over-sensitive. Granted, we may not know you very well, but I guess Kool Cat MAY have been too friendly and familiar in making that statement and assumed that you would have taken it in the right spirit. I don't think anyone would have seriously thought that the medals and awards mentioned by U-Ship would really be conferred to you? I mean, c'mon!

Raffles1, what's the term we use at work... ....-stirrer. That's it. 'Nuff said.

U-Ship, what can I say... Wrong joke, wrong forum, wrong audience...

I'm truly disappointed with the outcome. Whassup with all this "stick-up-everyone's arse"? It's a watch forum for god's sake; a place we can let our hair down and talk about what we love; across all boundaries! If anyone here thought this place would be anything else, he can impose his ideals and standards somewhere else! And I was sure the moderators were already doing a great job here.

Does everything have to be so serious??!!

BR,
w a y

[Tim got his boots back]

I remember once, about a year ago, on another forum, I made a comment in jest which I did not even think could be taken any other way except in the spirit in which it was offered. A gentleman was offended and I looked long and hard and couldn’t understand why but it was obvious to me that it was a serious thing to him and I apologized privately and publicly. The apology was accepted and everything just went on. I really wasn’t sure that an apology was necessary but once offered, it went a long way in healing up any emotional wounds and was really the best thing for the forum. It wasn’t long before the membership just went back to talking about muscle cars and forgot all that. I almost forgot about that incident. It was so long ago and at the time it was really important and a matter which bothered me greatly but … time moves on and before I knew it, it was lost in the foggy ruins of my mind, hidden behind some dusty file cabinet. This incident, as minor or as major as it may seem to those involved and reading, has brought that memory back and I think that this will all blow over as well.

I was just thinking how things can get out of hand so quickly and then with the simplest and sincerest of gestures, and the acceptance of such, things can go on.

With this in mind, I would like to address Kool Cat’s announcement of his departure. I think that if you just take some time away and come back refreshed, I’m sure that nobody will remember this thing and life will go on. I’m sure there’s lots of members here who look forward to your posts and I would think that your departure will saddened them and make this forum a little less exciting and interesting. I hereby now ask you to rethink this and come on back with a nice cup of coffee and continue to hang out with us crazy Sinners. These things can happen, and considering the amount of posts each one of us puts up, it’s amazing it doesn’t happen more. As each one of us gets to know each other better, soon there’s a familiarity afoot and such misunderstandings will be an even greater rarity. So remember, I’ve been in that position before and didn’t like it and it really bothered me greatly, to the point where I thought I would just screw off but now, a year later, I’m glad I’m still around. I took part in some amazing conversations and have made a lot of new friends there since. This forum is growing every day. You will meet a lot of new people over the next few years and contribute to some great conversations. But not if you leave.

If nothing else, the membership can see how things like this can happen so quickly and maybe a pause before posting might be on your mind. Like taking a few extra shovels of snow off the walkway to make sure that everyone will make it to your door safely.

Anyway, just a few thoughts.


BTW, how dare you guys get together for Sinn meetings without taking any pictures!! I want pics!! Don't make me hire a private detective to follow you guys around. I would love to make it down there for a nice meeting.

So, what do 290 lb. guys wear in Singapore? I mean, whatever I buy, I have to pay by the square yard so I'm thinking considering the price of the ticket, i would like to save some money on wardrobe. Would a white spandex speedo bathingsuit be suitable in those hot climes? I mean, I'm used to 40 below...I would have to wear a bathing suit there wouldn't I?? And long hair? In or out there? I trimmed my beard so I'm half presentable... I wanna go watch shopping. Can't do that where I live. I would love to hang with you guys!!

If I go to Singapore, you guys gotta come up here for a visit!!

cheers

[Tim got his boots back]

I guess the real serious question is....>

Are there ANY 290 lb hairy guys in Singapore? Will I be the only one? Will I stand out at a high end watch shop?

Convince me that I should come down to Singapore....show me some nice pics of Singapore!!!

[SJACKAL]

Tim, no disrespect to you, and you are a great guy but I hereby officially will no longer participate in this Sinn forum.

I simply cannot understand how this matter was supposedly laid to rest and then my post became "morally incorrect".

This is my final post and I wish Ernie, Martin and yourself the best in your endeavours. However, I will keep in touch with you on a personal basis if you wish to.

Cheers!

Kool Cat signing off

??? I thought it was resolved?

I did not read Prof Tan's words carefully and missed that part about the 'morally incorrect' thingy...

I feel sorry about how it ended up. Didn't expect that from him even after you apologised like a gentleman.

IMHO, most Singapore members take this thread as their home thread and had gotten very used to each other. Jests and words flow freely, good heartedly, no offences were intented, and none were taken. Its like old friends talking. But sometimes, someone unfamiliar joins in and experienced a culture-shock.

I feel that you had done your part as a gentleman and when the offended remains offended and hits back, I hope you will be alright and won't allow words to affect you too much.

I hope you will be back after you have taken your time away from the issue, I am too used to reading your posts. Like I said, life is too short to be too serious with every single little thing

[SJACKAL]

I guess the real serious question is....>

Are there ANY 290 lb hairy guys in Singapore? Will I be the only one? Will I stand out at a high end watch shop?

Convince me that I should come down to Singapore....show me some nice pics of Singapore!!!

Surely there will be some 300pounders in a 4 million population. But I guess probably not hairy :D

I think you will stand out. :D

[U-ship]

Hi there I thought I shouldn't just keep quite and pretend that nothing drastic really happened here. Seemingly I was the cause of all these unpleasant events.

My culture has always been to esteem others, give praise to whom praise is due and to be as polite as I can regardless. This I often do even when I correspond with my telco's operator, or seek help at service counters and etc. If the service is good, I did go home and write a commendation to their companies. This has always been me. And to me personally, Prof Tan's review did really help me in making sure my research on the U1 was 100% fruitful. I had numerous email exchanges with him since last year March to enquire about the U1, the watch, the details, the restrictions, the PROs, the CONs and everything else. Prof Tan has been very gentlemen in replying all my queries even though some of them are the simplest of all. That helped me tremendously when I was a new kid on the block. Some of you also PM me to asked about the details of U1 and I also kindly shared them with you generously just as what Prof Tan did to me. If you felt that the details I provided you were useful, that's because I gained that wealth from someone and that someone is no other than Prof Tan.

I'm sure some others in this forum also know I had been very gracious and kind in my words. I tend to honor those whom helped in my growth in this journey of learning. I think lcheetec (or Daniel from Pasir Ris) can attest to that, if you asked him how I link him up to someone I know before, it is because he was kind and gentlemen to help me some long time ago. There are also others which I am grateful to. I got to qualify that I'm not "brown nosing" anyone here. I shouldn't need to, neither do I work in the legal services, nor am I related to IT line. I don't even know what some of you're are working as for a profession for me to want to brown nose anyone of you. That leads me to mentioned that some here are still schooling but I still cheer them on for their good post and for saving early on quality timepiece. It is just me to thank everyone I can.

Waypoint mentioned "Wrong joke, wrong forum, wrong audience" I do admit it could be a wrong joke of confering an award, but it certainly wasn't the wrong forum nor wrong audience.

In what has became of now, I am deeply saddened that Kool Cat was so badly affected by it. He has been a great forumer, esp on threads such as his ever famous "The U2's trip to Germany due to AR", How many watches are enough... etc and etc. Kool Cat has also been quite a pillar of support for the SOS gatherings, He was ever readily available to organise any outings for us. He was also ever ready in carrying those volumes upon volums of past Sinn catalogue to show us how their company evolved. He is a legend by himself, offering us new-kids very very good ideas of what Sinn is today.

Kool Cat I know somehow you'd look into SOS forum again. You not only have that true Singapore blood (Having shared how your NS days were, no political discrimination to non Singapore citizens residing in Singapore, you are always welcome to join SOS) in you but you also have that passion of Sinn engraved on your forehead. That makes you perfectly fitting here.

While I remembered an old saying, "Some wait for things to happen, some make things happen, while others wondered what happened" Moving forward, lets move on and be that group that makes things happen.... I hope Kook Cat can return and make those dreams happen....

[Tim got his boots back]

I was hoping that this thing could get buried and that we could plant grass on it and go on but it's starting to look like people want to dig up the grass and pull out the casket.

Look, here's the way I see it. Kool Cat wrote something and I sincerely believe he was writing in jest and he thought that there was nothing to it and couldn't see how it would be taken the wrong way. Well, the recipient did take it seriously and felt a bit insulted. And I also believe that Prof. Tan truly felt insulted. As is in most cases, the "insulter" does not have to apologize if he feels he didn't do anything wrong and that what was offered up was offered up innocently but in this case, he did. He did apologize. I think that was great of him and it's an olive branch to Prof Tan.

I see that Prof. Tan has accepted the apology and this is great on him and as in Kool Cat's case, reflects positively towards the merit of both gentlemen. I also think that it should end there and further words on this are not necessary and does much to pick the growing scab off the wound.

I personally think that this was unnecessary to mention the post again and use the phrase "morally incorrect", especially after the man apologized and the apology was accepted. I would think that that would be the end of it. I would hope that that would be the end of it. It should be the end of it...so let's end it here and just move on.

So this thread is about SOS...well, lets get back there and forget this stuff. Further posts relating to this incident will be deleted or edited. The man apologized, it was accepted. The end. Move on.

I have a personal request. Could one of you guys go down to a high end watch store which sells Sinns in Singapore and take some pics. It would be nice to see a ton of Sinns behind the glass, in presentation form. I would also love to see what these stores look like.

thanks.
Tim