View Poll Results: Why is the Sinn 142 St II not more popular?

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  • What do you mean? For me it's a great watch!

    7 15.22%
  • If it ain't Lemania 5100, it ain't a 142!

    23 50.00%
  • Date is too difficult to read.

    12 26.09%
  • It's too heavy.

    1 2.17%
  • It would have to be titanium, like the 142 D1.

    1 2.17%
  • Don't care for the integrated bracelet, or limited choice of straps.

    11 23.91%
  • Time passes on, the design is outmoded.

    9 19.57%
Multiple Choice Poll.

Thread: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

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  1. #1
    Moderator Sinn Forum Kurt Koerfgen's Avatar
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    Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    The venerable Sinn 142 with Lemania 5100 movement was one of the classics in the Sinn model range and many Sinn fans were disappointed when Lemania terminated production of the 5100, forcing Sinn to halt production of this model.

    Sinn must have felt likewise, because in 2006 they introduced the Sinn 142 St II, with Dubois-Depraz 2070 movement based on the ETA 2892.
    But after some initial attention and hoopla this watch is not much talked about anymore.





    It survived the last two price hikes without increment, exists in one version (with either integrated metal bracelet or leather strap) only, and - like the legendary Ford Model T - comes with virtually no options. This all seems to indicate that the 142 ST II may not be the fastest moving Sinn model.

    Like its predecessor, the 142 St II kept the central chronograph minute hand and - with the exception of the date - is remarkably easy to read. Esthetically, it has a perfect symmetry that is not interrupted by date and day windows, and overall it retained the 70's feel and charm of the original 142.

    Chuck Maddox was a big fan of the Lemania 5100 movement and has frequently written about its pillar-based construction and robustness, although a watchmaker in Toronto did once comment that the 5100 has some rather small and under-dimensioned parts and might have benefitted from beefier and sturdier components like in the competing Valjoux 7750 movement. Be that as it may, for me one of the main attractions of the 142 was always the central chronograph minute counter that eliminated Valjoux 7750-style (30 minute chronograph minute counter) guesswork whether the elapsed time was 8 hours and 12 minutes, or 8 hours 42 minutes. My 142 St II is built like a tank, remarkably accurate, luminescence is second to none, despite its size and 757-like weight it sits very comfortably on the wrist, and I do appreciate the ease with which I can read elapsed time.


    So why is the 142 St II not more popular?

    Please feel free to vote (You may select more than one option.) and share your thoughts with us.





    K.
    Last edited by Kurt Koerfgen; May 8th, 2009 at 17:03. Reason: more than one option mentioned, note re luminescence added

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

    Bertrand Russell

  2. #2
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    Kurt,

    I've eyed the 142 St II several times and considered one, but the date display just doesn't do it for me on this watch. I was used to the day/date display of the 5100. I could have lived with a date-only window though.

    Furthermore I have to say that I'm a bit disappointed with Sinn. Some people maybe remember that several years ago they announced they are developing their own modification of the 7750 with a central chrono minute hand, the SZ01. I wonder whether they'll ever finish this project.

    They have come out with loads of new stuff since then, but nothing was ever heard of the SZ01 again. For me this was quite a disappointment. I had hoped that one day they would revive the 156 with their new movement. Or the EZM1 - instead they did a quite over-hyped "last production run". Looks like it was not meant to be.

    Oh well ... I'm wearing a Guinand now. And occasionally my Tutimas ... with the 5100 ...

  3. #3
    Member polishammer's Avatar
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    We all know that all those WIS guys buy a watch "only" for the movement, and since Sinn happened to be wrapped around Lemania 5100, it became popular...
    There are only two kinds of people in the world, the ones that own Sinn U1, U1W, U2, UX, U212 and U-Unlimited, and ones that donít.

    I am the ruler of the attunement to my inner self.




  4. #4
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    Honestly, I don't buy a watch for the movement in the first place, but for its functionality. So if I had a watch that looked and worked like a 5100-based watch, I'd care little about the movement as long as it works reliable.

  5. #5
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    A few "musts" to get back most of popularity:

    - Valjoux 7750, standard dial with day-date
    - bezel turning crown placed at 4, like the 2004 issued IWC Aquatimer Chrono or some Ball watches have, bi-directional, friction-controlled or 120 ratchets.
    - return of polished/brushed surface treatment
    - return of the non-integrated massive bracelet
    - Tegimented, antimagnetic case, 200 m water-resistance

    Hope CEO also reads Sinn fora ))

    Regards: Robertus

  6. #6
    Moderator Sinn Forum Kurt Koerfgen's Avatar
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by ferdinand View Post
    Honestly, I don't buy a watch for the movement in the first place, but for its functionality. So if I had a watch that looked and worked like a 5100-based watch, I'd care little about the movement as long as it works reliable.

    Ferdinand,

    I'm with you on this one.
    Lemania 5100? Well, no use crying over spilled milk - no matter how much I did like this movement.

    It's no longer available and there is apparently nothing that Sinn or we can do about it. (Breitling had to go a similar way when the hand-wound 1873 for their Cosmonaute was no longer available and - like Sinn with the 142 St II - they too opted for an ETA 2892 with complication. Sinn of course replaced the 1873 in the 903 series with the Valjoux 7750.)

    The great attraction of the Lemania 5100 was for me always the way this movement counted the elapsed minutes. And I believe that ultimately it may have been this feature that gave the 5100 the upper hand when it was chosen by Armed Forces for their pilots.

    Robustness was often cited as another big advantage, but the 5100 had also a few weak spots. One was the chronograph reset function that sometimes had the chronograph second hand stop short (I experienced that on two Lemania 5100 powered watches so far), another one were the small dimensions of some components that could have been designed sturdier. My second oldest 142 stops after a few days on my watch winder, no matter what the Sinn service center tries to do with the movement. Over time, I found also that some watchmakers are reluctant to work on the 5100, while some others just love the challenge.

    In comparison, the Dubois-Depraz 2070 performs quite well, but like many movements that add complications piggy-back style onto ETA 2892 raw movements, setting time is something you need to get used to. (Like the Breitling Cosmonaute mentioned earlier; after setting time it takes more than 30 seconds before the minute hand starts moving. To me not a big deal, as there is an easy workaround, but something that owners need to get the hang of.) The small date adds symmetry, but is not easy to read. When the watch came out first, I gave the 142 St II the cold shoulder, but in the absence of factory-new Lemania 5100 versions I have to admit that it has grown on me now.


    Ah, the SZ01; don't get me started....
    Like you, I too had high hopes that this movement would mature into a series movement for Sinn, but it doesn't seem to be happening. It could be because the Valjoux 7750 as ebauche is becoming harder to procure and getting increasingly expensive. By contrast, taking a finished Valjoux 7750 would add unnecessary expense, as the 7750 needs to be highly modified to become an SZ01. Each time I bring this subject up when visiting Sinn in Frankfurt I get evasive responses, which to mean means that SZ01 development is exactly going nowhere. In all fairness, Sinn may have found that the amount of modification required would make the SZ01 prohibitively expensive and has quietly been pursuing other options - one of them possibly the Dubois-Depraz 2070 in the 142 St II.





    Kurt
    Last edited by Kurt Koerfgen; May 9th, 2009 at 18:19.

    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

    Bertrand Russell

  7. #7
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    Like most people, I am attracted to the central minute counter that 5100 offers. It is so much easier to read.

    What I don't like about the 142 St II is the small date (which can be do away, like Speedy Pro) and the movement used (ETA 2892 + Dubois-Depraz). I would prefer a 7750, which is a built from scratch as a chronograph and simpler / cheaper to service. For me as a owner, servibility, which is equivalent to cost of ownership, is important .

    Having said so, can a 7750 be modified to have a modified central minute hand?

  8. #8
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by sshark View Post
    Having said so, can a 7750 be modified to have a modified central minute hand?
    Most likely - I think that's what Sinn tried with the SZ01 movement...
    But for some reason development on this modification seems to be on hold.

  9. #9
    Member Andy S.'s Avatar
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    I think once Sinn comes up with whatever movement+modification will work to reproduce
    exactly the 5100 function/dial-layout of the 142st they will have another popular watch.
    To me the tiny date dial doesn't work & also that re-imagined bracelet kills the lines of the watch.

  10. #10
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    Re: Why doesn't the Sinn 142 St II have more fans?

    i am a fan-- this is the model that attracted me to the brand in the first place...

    hope to have one (142st sa) in the near future.

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