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  1. #11
    Member John Chris's Avatar
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    I have a similar watch, and owned 2 of them in the distant past. They are not particularly rare. Favre-Jacquot's manufacture was (and still is) on Rue Billodes in Le Locle. There is some dispute as to whether the script on the movement is 'Serkisoff' in Arabic. I have read elsewhere that it translates as "my watch", but I cannot read it myself. Roessler was also wrong about the meaning of the 40T symbol on the dial of cal. 40T wristwatches. As for age, Roessler is inconsistent, stating 1880 on 1 page and 1890 on another, with a reference to 1870 elsewhere. Billodes was a trade name used by GFJ, along with Defy, Diogenes and, after 1897, Zenith, until Zenith became the exclusive trade name in 1911. My watch has his initials inside the cover. Cheers,

    Chris

  2. #12
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by John Chris View Post
    I have a similar watch, and owned 2 of them in the distant past. They are not particularly rare. Favre-Jacquot's manufacture was (and still is) on Rue Billodes in Le Locle. There is some dispute as to whether the script on the movement is 'Serkisoff' in Arabic. I have read elsewhere that it translates as "my watch", but I cannot read it myself. Roessler was also wrong about the meaning of the 40T symbol on the dial of cal. 40T wristwatches. As for age, Roessler is inconsistent, stating 1880 on 1 page and 1890 on another, with a reference to 1870 elsewhere. Billodes was a trade name used by GFJ, along with Defy, Diogenes and, after 1897, Zenith, until Zenith became the exclusive trade name in 1911. My watch has his initials inside the cover. Cheers,

    Chris
    Well, although I can't read arabic, I can decypher the script a little (I have Persian connections, who have similar script) and the first part of the inscription looks like a dead ringer for "Serkisoff" to me. However, there does seem to be a little extra there.....

    As for the age of the watch, can you give the pages that contradict? I can only see one Serkisoff PW (Page 52, one picture repeated on Page 47) in my (German) version of Rössler and that one is given as made in 1890 in both cases.

    Hartmut Richter

  3. #13
    Member John Chris's Avatar
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmut Richter View Post
    Well, although I can't read arabic, I can decypher the script a little (I have Persian connections, who have similar script) and the first part of the inscription looks like a dead ringer for "Serkisoff" to me. However, there does seem to be a little extra there.....

    As for the age of the watch, can you give the pages that contradict? I can only see one Serkisoff PW (Page 52, one picture repeated on Page 47) in my (German) version of Rössler and that one is given as made in 1890 in both cases.
    Hartmut, in my 2008 English language edition (I don't have access to an umlaut, hence my spelling of Roessler), the photo of the movement on p. 47 (same photo as on p. 52) states 1890. On p. 52, the date "about 1870" is given. Lost in translation? Good job on the Arabic!

    Chris
    Last edited by John Chris; January 18th, 2011 at 02:48.

  4. #14
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Actually an old thread, but quite interesting.
    What can be seen from the details?
    I made better pictures of my watch.
    It has case-number 3418253 155 and the initials Georg Favre Jacot.

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    The first watch in this thread has case-number 2074296 1480 and false english hallmarks.

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    And what's that?

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    Last edited by Hans61; January 18th, 2011 at 22:35.

  5. #15
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Ol' eagle eyes at it again, I see! Good point though - it looks as if the OP's watch is missing a bridge. Also, the shape of the bridge holding the wheelhouse is different to the standard "Billodes" movement. A fake? Possibly - but IMO definitely not a modern one. I wonder if Zenith watches were faked as early as ca. 1880?! No, on the whole I think that we may be looking at yet another calibre variant missing in Rössler's book.....

    As for the inscription, I asked someone who is even better at reading farsi script than me - my wife! It reads "Serkisoff Sherkat", the latter word meaning "factory" or "workshop" so that it amounts to "Serkisoff & Co." - just like on the dial!

    Hartmut Richter

  6. #16
    Member John Chris's Avatar
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Note also that on Hans61's watch, like mine, the Arabic script is located between the regulator/balance bridge and the main plate (as illustrated in Roessler), not up above the bridges as on the first one. The English did not, as far as I know, hallmark .800 silver. Interesting!

  7. #17
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    John Chris,
    I would like to know the case-number and the kind of hallmarks of your watch.
    And please Pictures.

  8. #18
    Member John Chris's Avatar
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans61 View Post
    John Chris,
    I would like to know the case-number and the kind of hallmarks of your watch.
    And please Pictures.
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    Herewith the pictures of my rather beat-up watch, which has yet to be serviced. Oddly enough it has a different number on the inside of each of the three covers - front, back and movement. Your photos show only one inside cover. Are there different numbers on the other covers? I have no idea what they signify! Anyone?

    Chris

  9. #19
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Dear Sir,

    I have an old watch nameR.SERKISOFF CO CONSTANTINOPLE and BELENUS writes on a machine. I do not know what period it originated and what its value. I do not want to sell it. but I would like to know more about this watch. I saw that you are specialist for this watches so please let me know
    more about it. Thank You in advance and best regards,
    ZoricaName:  slika-3652047x640[1].jpg
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  10. #20
    Zenith Forum Moderator D N Ravenna's Avatar
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    Re: Billodes/Zenith Serkisoff Ottoman Pocket Watch

    Hello Zorica,
    Sorry, but we do not provide values or estimates here. To give you a better idea of the watch's history, we need a clearer shot of the movement. It is hard to tell from the original picture.

    Thanks for sharing!

    Dan
    follow likes this.

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