Project 300

[sunster]

No brainer Menno....a real omega seamaster 300 with all original parts versus a homage to the same watch .....I'd get the original. The fact that its actually not vintage is actually a plus in my eyes as then I could wear it just as if it were a new watch and not be worried about breaking some old used parts

Take another slant. If Rolex made available new original parts for the 6538 and you had it put together professionally....would you still consider the kingston hypothetically if they were both similar in price?

[Thieuster]

Take another slant. If Rolex made available new original parts for the 6538 and you had it put together professionally....would you still consider the kingston hypothetically if they were both similar in price?

Great question. Let me try to answer it with an example. I'm heavily involved in restoring classic cars. My avatar's Triumph was built in 1959 by Standard Triumph. Over the years, I've rebuilt my car using original Triumph parts and upgraded parts (better brakes, better rust protection etc). And yes, it's still a Triumph! At a price, I can tell you. Buying a replica or kit car with the TR3A's shape at the same price as my rebuilt TR is an easy choice I think... the real deal, off course.

About a year ago, things got started and when I remember correctly (and please correct me if I'm wrong!) the initial price - idea was $ 1095.
I lifted this from Timezone:

Bill Yao has updated us on his Project 300 (based on the iconic Omega Seamaster 300)/ It will be a limited edition project in stainless steel (the titanium option would have been prohibitively expensive).

The plank owner package is not as generous as it was for the Kingston project because of the higher quality of the case that we will be used for this watch.

The project could theoretically be done less expensively but it would mean using untested suppliers. For a customer sponsored project he thought it best to use tried and tested suppliers even though it would mean a higher cost. Fortunately the higher cost will also result in a higher quality case so the trade-off is balanced out by what should be a superior finished product.

He has decided that it will be okay to produce a watch that is very similar to the original, while choosing to make subtle changes to the design to differentiate it from the original.

Specifications are: Case diameter of 42mm x 14mm (all estimates); 200 to 300 meters water resistance. A double domed sapphire crystal with AR coating on the interior surface only. Movement is the automatic ETA caliber 2836-2 or 2824-2 decorated with Geneva stripes. Other specs subject to change. MSRP starts at $1,095.

Thanks.

Back then, I already mentioned the relative little price difference between a Watchco and the Project 300 watch. Now, the price appears to have gone up with >30%, things look differently from here, on the other side of the ocean. (Duty, VAT etc).
Mind you, I'm not bashing Bill's work etc. I honestly believe that building watches has a price. And previous MKII watches were very great FVM! Too cheap in fact! Where else could one get a #1 out a serie of 10 watches for less than $1000!? And I think it's a good thing that Bill's building future watches to make a proper profit, but as said: price-wise this is getting close to the original.

Menno

[MonroeA]

I too opted in as soon as Bill made the announcement and like you I am beginning to wonder. The price is high enough that I could pick up an actual Omega and I think it's much better to have the real deal. No way we could get a Rolex for the price of the Kingston and initially it was Bills intention to price the 300 along the same lines. Now that it can't be done I spend a lot of time wondering if this deal makes sense. I know it will be a great watch and I'm sure it will be worth whatever Bill charges for it, but does it make sense when it so close in price to the actual Omega. Just a thought.

[bakuma]

For those of you who remember, the original email-solicited poll to those on the MKII mailing list included choices of the big-crown sub (which became the Kingston), the early Seamaster (either the CK2913 or 14755 - I don't remember which model Bill had in mind), and a third watch. At the time there was also a lot of input for a model like the "classic" '70s SM300 which Bill initially rejected. The availability of real vintage SM300s plus the Watchco re-builds with all Omega parts makes me think that, as a maker of homage watches (even if improved/updated homages), it might have been a better decision for Bill to remake a watch that is rare, expensive and relatively hard to find, as he did with the Kingston. A remake of the CK2913 might not have generated as much initial enthusiasm as the project 300, but given the lack of alternatives I think it would have been a successful undertaking. (And, for what it's worth, that's the option I voted for). I've come close to buying a Watchco SM300 a couple of times (all the way back to when they were $900...!), but the issues withe the bezel in salt water always turned me off as I knew I would want to dive and swim with it.

pic of the 2913 from Darren on the VRF:

Given the fact that Chronomaster in the UK sells a Watchco Omega for 1445 GPB, things are getting difficult: a price difference of 353 GBP gives me a watch built with genuine Omega parts, even recognised by the Boys in Bienne as an Omega. Not a hommage.

Menno

[MHe225]

I'm struggling with the exact same issue, Menno. As I mentioned in post #155 in this thread, I'm not happy at all with the price hike and it definitely erodes the value proposition this watch presented. Compared to the Kingston, you get less (one watch and a substantially less generous spares kit) for more than double the price: $1,445 for the PO Project 300 versus $700 for the PO Kingston.
And as you point out, the current pricing is getting awfully close to an original - I know, not all agree, but to me, the Watchco Omega is close enough to the original (but it should still be disclosed).

I can mention several examples from the (vintage) motorcycle scene, where replicas built with NOS parts fetch almost the same price as the originals. Check the current eBay auction of the 1972 MV Agusta 750S clone, already approaching $43K I wonder how many experts would have recognized this one as a clone / replica if the seller had not disclosed that information

Ron

PS - this topic may indeed deserve its own thread and maybe the moderator(s) can help to merge the posts on this topic with that new thread?

[Jaimie]

Compared to the Kingston, you get less (one watch and a substantially less generous spares kit) for more than double the price: $1,445 for the PO Project 300 versus $700 for the PO Kingston

I do not think that you can compare the price for a Kingston as based on the work effort it was a much lower price that it should have been and except for a long wait people are getting a great deal for the $700. I think that if MKII had to do the Kingston again the initial price would be higher for sure.

Having said that I do not disagree that if you want an Omega 300 then the Watchco is a great watch while they exist and are available as I said before they are as close as you can get from a new watch as the parts are NOS. I still prefer to go for the Project 300 and have input and see what MKII come up with.

[ASRSPR]

And of course, reviving discussion from 2 pages back, the renewed availability of the Precista PRS-14 and its relatively bargain price puts pressure on the Project 300 from below.

But as I understand it, the price hike from the original proposal are substantially due to the choices of sapphire high dome crystal and bezel inlay, a choice that was brought about by supplier and economic circumstances and at least in part due to customer demand. We would be remiss to deny the additional cost and (presumably higher market value) these parts add to the equation. Sapphire bezel inlays are fairly rare, as are sapphire high dome crystals and I think would add much to the uniqueness of the watch (and further distinguish it from Watchco reduxes).

Do I think that the value-for-money has diminished from when it was a $1095 with a double-dome sapphire or acrylic crystal and a (presumably) acrylic inlay? Probably? Do I think that it's a 30% difference? Not at all. I'm concerned, like the rest, but I'm still on board.

[sierra11b]

Got my PVS-14 today. What a fantastic watch! I was a bit concerned about the size in relation to my wrist (6.75") but it works well because the tops of my wrist are flat and I have a larger frame (6' 225lbs).

I already sent my deposit for 'Project 300' and am still happy about proceeding, especially if Bill can exceed the Presicta. It would be pretty hard to beat the looks of this watch because it looks damn sexy, but if his rendering does the style justice (which I expect it will) with better internals I'd be happy to see it all the way to the end.

My hope is that people stay interested enough to see it through on paper and then make their decision to stay on board. Considering Bill's background in finance, if the project doesn't make sense he can simply work toward the next LE that does (Pan Am?). I cannot speak on experience with custom watches, but as mentioned before with custom knives with much greater time windows exceeding 4+ years, this wouldn't be my first rodeo in dealing with custom goodies from a single maker. I'm willing wager that the delays and learning curves associated with the Kingston will help him produce other LEs with better results. Patience will prevail.

The idea of building an Omega has me very interested as well. I will more than likely test the waters in the Omega forum to see if building one is more feasible over the long term.

[tmoris]

Not a real Omega should be read as: not a real vintage Omega since they are built even today and not a long time ago. As an example: watchco seamaster 300 and this: Watchco NOS Omega Seamaster 300′s: Authentic? – I Already Have a Watch. with a really nice thought written in the last comment.

Recognised by Omega: take a look at this thread on WUS. Pay attention to posting #4 and #5 Ever sent Watchco Seamaster 300 NOS to Omega?

thanks for the links, very interesting.

regarding the pricing: on the watchco web these are sold for 3500 AUD (about the same as in USD) and the link you sent shows one on a leather strap rather than on a bracelet for 2375 USD while having different colours on indices and hands, which looks kind of odd.. the other link you provided from TZUK shows it for ~2100 USD, which looks much better to me than the previous one, but still a decent jump from mkii..

[tmoris]

what do you guys make of this sale of a 1969 Seamaster 300 ?