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Thread: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

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  1. #31
    Member Lee_K's Avatar
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    Hi Jalfreem,

    I've enjoyed reading your posts over the past few months as you agonize over the decision of getting a Submariner versus buying lower-cost but still high-quality alternatives like a Doxa or an MM300. A couple of observations:

    1. Being a disciple of Dave Ramsey and buying a luxury watch are simply incompatible. Dave would tell you to buy a Casio MDV106 and put the rest of the money into paying down your mortgage.

    2. Customers of your funeral home will indeed notice your Rolex (its about the only brand non-watch enthusiast recognize as being "the best" and "very expensive") and will probably resent you for having what they believe to be such an ostentatious piece of jewelry on your wrist, which they figure will be at their expense in the prices you charge for services. It's the reason that in the 60s and 70s that doctors drove Buicks rather than more flashy Cadillacs or European makes -- they didn't want to flaunt their wealth.

    3. No watch will satisfy you other than the Submariner. I can tell it by your posts and know that settling for lesser watches is always going to be suboptimal and won't end the yearning. If the Tudor didn't do it, a MM300 or 1200T certainly won't.

    4. Believe it or not, an obsession with being debt-free and retiring early may not be the road to true happiness. My father was a child of the Great Depression and resolved to never be poor again in his life. He scrimped and saved his whole life working as a teacher with a very average income, but by the time he retired in the 1980s he was a millionaire. What did he do with all of his money after that? Nothing. He bought an inexpensive retirement home in Sun City, had one modest car, and within two years was diagnosed with cancer and died shortly after. No grand vacations, no luxury goods, no fine dining, no fancy entertainment -- he pretty much kept on living the same miserly lifestyle because that was all he knew before. I'm very sorry that he never got to enjoy his money but I think that what truly gave him happiness was just looking at his bank statements every month and seeing how much they had grown. The point is, there is a balance that should be maintained and that a maniacal drive to accumulate as much wealth as possible may not be the nirvana one thinks it is. It may give you solace to know that you have no debt whatsoever, but it does come at an interpersonal cost. As my father's child, I painfully learned that lesson when simple things like clothing were always purchased used, almost nightly screaming matches engaged over food not eaten ("there are people starving in India!" He would roar), and having to drive the family car without insurance because my father was too cheap to pay for it. He told us never to get in an accident and if we did, he told us to simply tell the police we didn't have any insurance and we'd be off the hook for any damages. I drove to high school in absolute fear that it would happen to me, but fortunately it never did. Don't get me wrong -- I loved my father and he was a good man -- but this obsession with accumulating (but never spending) money was a burden me and my brothers shared growing up.

    My advice? Just get the Sub. Buy an inexpensive quartz watch to wear when you meet with customers. Wear the Sub when you're off-duty. Learn for yourself whether owning a Rolex is all you had dreamed of. I sincerely hope it does work out for you.

    All opinions above respectfully submitted, of course.
    Last edited by Lee_K; April 15th, 2017 at 05:56.

  2. #32
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    Lee_K!

  3. #33
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    If I had started in and bought the exact model of Rolex GMT I wanted about 15yrs ago I probably wouldn't have gone through as many watches as I have, and thus I would have saved money n the long run.

    On the other hand, I now am a happy Doxa collector and have owned said GMT and quietly moved it along. Perhaps I would have been a "one watch guy" all those years ago and saved $$ but who knows. :)
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  4. #34
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    It's like the tree falling in the wood and if it makes a sound. If I never had known about a Rolex Sub, would I know what a Rolex Sub was?




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  5. #35
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    Quote Originally Posted by jalfreem View Post
    If I never had known about a Rolex Sub, would I know what a Rolex Sub was?
    Yes, very much yes.

  6. #36
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    This is really getting off topic....

    But....

    This I think has been one of my best threads. The few threads I've started along with the posts fellow members have responded to, and the threads I've read, have made this quite interesting. LeeK has been very insightful and made some great insights into what I don't want to be or give up in my quest for FI.

    I have a joy and a love of my family that I'm happy to "sacrifice" for. 1st world sacrifices though. I'm kind of whining about why I shouldn't buy a Rolex, or that a Tudor ($2500 value) doesn't satisfy. Or why a mm300 vs a Doxa? Really I'm very blessed and lucky to enjoy what I have.

    I'm placing an assumption here, that a person who gets hooked on these watches sees them more that watches. I've read the Wabi Sabi book and get the idea that an object takes on a life through the naturally occurring wear one places onto and into the object. As a Westerner, I would simply have called this antiquing before. Now I get that the physical process of "wear" is the beauty of the object as it ages with the wearer. To me, this is a watch. Something worn daily to impute myself. A well worn life. I worry about "luxury" and appearing ostentatious, but forget to enjoy the "wearing."

    The most important part of owning the watch to me is the wearing of the watch. Not necessarily to tell time, but to make it heirloom worthy. As someone responded, that these expensive watches should be worn and can't understand spending the money and not wearing them. It is just a watch as someone told me, and that is true it's just a watch the same way many on here have their Dad's or Grandfather's watches. Or but vintage and embrace the adventures that watch had. I need to give my Tudor adventures instead of worrying about trade in value on a Rolex Sub. I can buy out right a Sub for cash better than a trade in and up deal.

    As a WIS the mantra seems to be popular to get the Sub first, and get what you want first to save money. I'm starting to like all of them that I have brought up and own now. I thought as an FI pursuer I'd need to be a minimalist, but that's being a Pharisee and legalistic and taking the joy out of something I enjoy. I'm not attached materialistic ally or over consuming these machines. I enjoy the mechanical aspect of telling time, the design, the aesthetic, and how I feel wearing them (ready for adventure) (okay, like James Bond).

    I didn't buy a Sub the first purchase. I bought a Rolex Explorer 214270 that I didn't like. I mean I just didn't like it, after forcing myself to like it enough to make the purchase. I flipped that for the Black bay and cash, because I liked the black bay more than the explorer and didn't have enough to get into a Sub my fears of wearing s Rolex around town. Now... And these threads, have really helped.... these things are expensive in a world wide view (a SKX is someone's luxury watch, when you tell someone it costs almost $200 they flip). So I know that I would love a Sub C in the near future, I just don't want to have to worry about it in a financial sense of thinking I would need to sell it if things don't pan out, but once I get there, it will be fun to wear. Along with these other iconic dive watches. And the Tudor Black Bay will be iconic to me, as well as the SKX and what ever I decide to buy in the mean time like the mm300 or a Doxa. These watches look like they should have been in Jaws. Or on the wrist of Robert Redford (I think a Doxa was in the Day of the Condor) and Jaques Cousteau.

    The main issue in all this is I really need to take my watch I currently own and this next purchase on a trip to actually "adventure" with it, like a beach and get dive lessons, or go sailing, or fishing with my dad. Make it priceless instead of "trade in value." That way instead of teaching my sons that I denied fun and enjoyment of the things that mattered to reach FI, they can remember that we all made FI without sacrificing what really is important. Not wearing it makes it an idol to be hoarded not worn and risked like it should be (a lot like life).




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  7. #37
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    I alternate wearing a Rolex Sea Dweller I bought about 12 years ago, Seiko MM I picked up in a forum about a year ago and a Seiko Tuna.

    Nothing is a Rolex except a Rolex, good or bad, they are their own animal and if that's what you want nothing else will satisfy.

    I love my MM, wear it on a Greg Stevens strap or an Isoframe,
    Very comfortable and very accurate. As for service - Jack at International Watch Works does amazing work if you ever need it.

    Having said all that I'm now looking to add a Doxa to my collection


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  8. #38
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    Thank you simonp67.

    What's really starting to rise to the surface in all of this is I'm really digging my Tudor black bay, and my Seiko SKX007. I've been looking at SubC pictures all over the Internet and Instagram, let alone in person every once in a great while, and I'll admit something.... I think I like that 5513 look with painted plots and aluminum insert and not the very shiny everything on the SubC. It's almost clinical in a way (to me). The black bay is a little this way for me now that I've caught on, but the snowflake hands and aluminum insert skew towards the look, the mm300 had that Seiko kind of "ugly" beauty. I think a scuffed up bezel on that mm300 would be okay and show the wabi. Like it's meant to be dinged up. The Doxas, to me, look like they are the true reissues from the 70s. And again, look better beaten up a bit.

    Again I dont own the SubC, but am really starting to even out on the lusting for one. I'm at that, I'd like to own one, but I'm not pursuing it right now stage. The fever has reduced to 98.6.

    But these mm300s and Doxas are more tempting in a "fun to wear" kind of way, don't worry about service, just wear them and fix them when the time comes. And the replies have been great here. These watches are meant to be worn and I should enjoy what I'm wearing.

    In the could Omega be Rolex in 20 years thread, someone posted that they don't buy Rolexes because their Parents would give him grief about it. That would be me too, let alone the "fear" of wearing one and it getting noticed by my client families. And I care about not showing off, even though I know it's not really. People in my town will buy what I call expensive cars, but a lot of them are GM employees buying Cadillacs on discount or giant trucks, but wear their timex and Walmart fit bits. I know I could make the argument and justification, I just don't want to have to be put into a position to justify and it would happen, but I wouldn't happen with my Tudor, a Seiko, a Doxa, or as was mentioned a JLC or even an AP royal oak in platinum. Like was mentioned the plan should be to own one and wear the g shock as a daily, and the Sub when I'm not at work. That would be it, for the near future until I would be free from having to care about public of family perception. That's why I think all these watches would be fun, I'll just try to pick up a mm300 and a Doxa and save up for the sub, and await a cool vintage one like a 1980 birth year 1680 or 5513.


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  9. #39
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    My elder business partner would flip if he found out what it was anyway. He wouldn't know what it was, but his friends in town, if they knew, would make a comment, and then that would be that.

    I know this sounds bad, but I would guess he's one of the wealthiest people in the county, yet it kills him that people think so. That Doctors driving Buick post thing. He's it. But I also get where he's coming from too. Don't cause offense to people who don't accept it. Don't make people feel bad because of perceptions of wealth.

    As funeral directors we serve our small economically depressed town. There are a lot of wealthy baby boomers, but after them, there is a lot of poverty and few job opportunities due to 2 factories that shut down in the 2000s. We accept everyone here and we try to be all things for all our client families that our firm has served since 1958, when he and his father started in our town. No one will care about a new Seiko even a larger watch like the mm300, or a Doxa or my SKX, or my Tudor. And not Rolex, once I'm free from "having" to earn an income. I'll work, but I'll be free from having to care about people pleasing with what I buy or what car I drive.


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  10. #40
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    Re: Doxa 1200T (seed planted by The Grey NATO) or a Seiko mm300.

    Anyone had to have these serviced and what the end results were?


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