IWC Modified Movements Explained

[Kiwi Mac]

Very interesting - thanks!

I have to say that the Ingenieur is not my favourite of the IWC stable by a long chalk (just a personal taste thing) but there is no doubt it is an excellent watch.

I saw one post somewhere where the very good point "why should an in-house movement necessarily be any better than a bought-in alternative?" was made.

If you take a movement from ETA that has proven reliability and accuracy in the standard form and then re-engineer it to be even better, that seems a very sensible way to proceed.

A bit like taking say a Ford V8 and then having Carroll Shelby re-building it with top notch performance parts: the original was fine - but the Shelby is WAY better!

[Kiwi Mac]

I found this interesting piece on Timezone (my bold):

"A few observations:

As far as I am concerned it’s very sad that even with the huge slew of new movements that have been introduced during the 3135’s past two decades of continuous use and refinement, there still aren’t too many challengers to the Rolex triple crown of accuracy, reliability and durability – i.e. its toughness – for example, its ability to withstand the abuse of everyday life that most active people, both men and women, would hurl at it, and still keep on ticking. And not just keep on ticking, but to continue doing so accurately too. The only ones that come to mind are the ETA 2892-2A, the ETA 7750 (including their numerous variations and incarnations) and possibly Omega’s new caliber 8500. But unlike the first two movements, the latter one, notwithstanding the fact that it is their 3rd generation of Dr. George Daniel’s co-axial escapement, doesn’t have the advantage of over 20 years worth of use, abuse and refinement, so it’s still an open question as to its long term reliability. So in my opinion, that leaves only two serious contenders to Rolex’s 3135 throne. Of course I would be remiss not to mention Rolex’s own caliber 2235 for its ability to match the three men’s movements. Which is an astounding achievement given the fact that this is a lady’s movement and a lot smaller in diameter and volume than the aforementioned ones.

Initially I was also going to include the Zenith Caliber 400 in this small selection above, but ultimately decided against it because although it’s virtually on a par with the ETA 7750 in most respects, unfortunately unlike the latter, it is only available in various chronograph options.

I’ll be the first to admit that none of these movements will win any prizes for their aesthetics, or their level of decoration. Plus there are other movements that I have mentioned before that can match these three in terms of accuracy, but I haven’t included them here because they are too fragile to be classified as tough movements, or haven’t been around long enough to prove their long term reliability. A perfect example is the JLC 889. An excellent, accurate and reliable movement when serviced by competent watchmakers, but not known for its ability to withstand abuse Then of course we have a few Seiko and Citizen movements that have an outstanding reputation for their toughness and reliability, but most of them fall short in the accuracy department, and one is fortunate if they are accurate to better than +- 15s per day. As a note of interest that standard was more than acceptable for certified COSC chronometers in the 1960s, but most people today expect better, having been spoilt by the standards of their thermo-compensated, atomic clock adjusted quartz watches. And so the COSC have raised their standards accordingly.


And the winner is…

Of these three movements which one do I like the best? If accuracy is your only criteria, then it doesn’t matter which one you choose as there really is virtually no difference between them in that regard. Sure some individual movements might time out marginally better than others, but overall the differences in time keeping between them is insignificant. All three are capable of exemplary accuracy in all six positions, and do so with a minimum of variation and loss to the balance amplitude. More importantly, they should provide excellent accuracy and reliability under real world conditions too.

As for me, please keep in mind that no movement is perfect and that they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Having said that though there is absolutely no question in my mind, that I prefer the ETA 2892-2A over the other two. Okay, so it’s been around almost half a century and in many ways isn’t as sophisticated as the Rolex – no Breguet hairspring, or Parachrom hairspring material etc – but during its long lifetime in its best available chronometer version, it has proven itself to be an exceptionally accurate, reliable and tough movement. Its two main advantages over the 3135 are that it’s quite a bit thinner, only 3.6mm thick versus 6mm, and has only one major weakness – the inefficiency of its automatic winding system, as I mentioned in my earlier review of it. While good enough for most reasonably active folk, it is not efficient enough for those people, young or old, who lead a sedentary lifestyle. "

(See the full article at http://www.timezone.com/extras/200903313583)

[Sgian Dubh]

I agree with most statements in that article. The only problem is that I think the author disregards Seiko movements too quickly. There are some Grand Seiko and certainly Credor movements that best Rolex and other Swiss movements in the accuracy department. I've also heard that they're quite rugged.

Also, I didn't know Citizen made automatic movements. I thought they were all quartz these days. That said, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Citizen Chronomaster -- the most accurate watch in world!

Edit: My mistake, I forgot about the Miyota movement.

[NightScar]

I think we need to get this stickied. There seems to be a lot of questions regarding the movements and we can just compile all the informations we find on IWC movements here.

[FrogmanFreak]

very interesting thread.

[iwantagmt]

Very interesting...does the movement still make the "whirring" sound of the regular 7750? Does it still wind in only 1 direction?
Thanks!

[skele]

Thanks for the articles.

Quite informative read. However, what is the future IWC's plan when faced with scheduled phase out of the ETA's ebauch "kit"?

Do they plan to purchase completed movement and discard most of it and start over? Are they going to do same thing the are currently doing with Selita's movement?

If they are replacing all the critical parts anyway, why not just replace the non-critical parts as well? Should be easier to replace the non-critical parts than the critical ones and no one is stopping them from doing it.

[red_wagen]

If they are replacing all the critical parts anyway, why not just replace the non-critical parts as well? Should be easier to replace the non-critical parts than the critical ones and no one is stopping them from doing it.

Because there are no positive effects in doing so and just adds cost.

[phatonycmu]

Deleted my previous post, just realized that they moved to a competitive provider of movements for their Portofino line at least. It would be good to know how this will impact ownership etc... I'm hoping the answer isn't "only time will tell."

[Michael Schott]

Deleted my previous post, just realized that they moved to a competitive provider of movements for their Portofino line at least. It would be good to know how this will impact ownership etc... I'm hoping the answer isn't "only time will tell."

I'm not sure what you mean by "they moved to a competitive provider of movements for their Portofino line". AFAIK ETA still provides the movements for these watches except for the in-house 8 day movement.