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In depth Review of my latest watch .... Patek Philippe 5227

21K views 29 replies 23 participants last post by  BusyTimmy 
#1 ·
Today, i want to share my new watch and give a little review.

I bought the Patek 5227J and am absolutely in love with it. I look at my watch as often as possible and it always makes me smile. Could not have made a better decision. However, in my little review i want to talk about both the good and the bad of this watch.

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This is going to be a very long post. Most people tend to dislike long texts. So you can see below what points i am going to discuss. If you just want to read a little bit, you might jump directly to Point X.

So here we go.

1. Why this watch?
2. The Place of the 5227 in the universe of Patek Philippe
3. Why is the 5227 that great?
4. ... and why the 5227 still is not a perfect watch
5. My 5227 as a one-of-a-kind watch

1. Why this watch?

What kind of watch did i wanted to buy?

- A watch that i can wear on a daily basis, somewhat of an "life-time watch"
- From a company that has a rich history and has much to learn and read about

- An elegant watch (as i said: i must be able to wear it on a daily basis)

- A watch that is as thin as possible, but a date would be perfect
- My watch should have somehow already existed in the past: The perfect watch would have been a new watch that has been designed after a historic watch of that same company

Sitting at my AD, i had basically decide between three pieces.

1) Lange & Söhne 1815 UP/DOWN YG
2) Vacheron Constantin Traitionelle Boutique Edition with Guilloche Dial (Ref. 82172/000R-9888)
3) Patek 5227J

The Lange would have been an amazing choice and i might still add this piece to my collection at some point. Yet, comparing it to the Patek, it had a movement that had a better finish (i think there is no real argument about this point), but as an entire watch, its not as "shiny" or as "WOW" as the Patek. Since i am going to put a lot of money on the table, i think its also nice to have a date. Lets think of this: In 5 years, i dont care about watches anymore. Than it is way harder to enjoy the Lange than the Patek. The Patek is automatic, very classy and with date. Even someone, who doesnt care about watches, could very well wear and enjoy the Patek.

In fact, i have never seen the Vacheron i wanted to buy. Since its a boutique edition, my AD just had the regular 82172 version in stock. Had i seen the amazing guilloche dial, i might have bought it. Yet, there was only the regular version, which was not even close to the Patek. I would rate the movement finish of the Vacheron as the least well done (yet there could be an argument that is should be rated second). More important: I didnt like the winding experience. The Vacheron Crown tends to snap back pretty hard with every turn of the crown and i felt like this crown was quite small of a piece you have to wind every second day...

The biggest plus with the Patek, however, was the Caseback (Check Chapter 5 for details).
The only real negative thing i knew before going with this watch: The design does not seem to have any history (more on this later).

I am actually quite young (26 yrs old) so you could argue that it might be a little early for that kind of a watch. However, there have been some major Up´s (published my first book) and Down´s (some minor health issues) in 2015 and obviously i could afford it, so i thought there is no reason for my dream to not come true. It is always going to remember me about this time in my life, which i think is a very good thing.

Metal


2. The Place of the 5227 in the universe of Patek Philippe

So, is there any history with the 5227? I dont want to talk about the case-back, which seems to be more of a pocket-watch thing, but only about the design of the dial and the entire watch.

Naturally, there are a couple of watches that come to my mind.

A rare reference with obvious similarities is the Patek Ref. 2481, which has been produced since 1950.

See picture here: http://people.timezone.com/staff/AP/09.26.07%20auction/438.jpg
With almost 37mm in diameter, the 2481 has been quite a big watch at its time (in fact, it is only 2 mm smaller than the 5227, which seems to be one of the biggest calatravas in Pateks current line up).

It is known that many kings, particularly in Saudi Arabia, have owned this watch and there are some special versions of this watch on the market (with enamel paintings on the dial - so there is some kind of further similarity to the 5227, which allows personal engravings).

While the basic design (central seconds!) of this said watch is quite close to the Patek 5227, there are some differences also. Forget about the date, but there is more: The 2481 has a Opaline dial which is not as glossy as the ivory dial of the 5227. Additionally, the 2481 has a manual wound movement (Kal. 27 SC) and the indexes are basically the same as with the now famous Ref. 96, or the current 5196 J/G/R or 5296 R / G and so on...
Im gonna discuss the indexes of the 5227 later, because i both strongly like and dislike them.

The other historic Patek piece that naturally come to my mind is the Patek Ref. 2526 from 1953

See picture here: http://luxurymenblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Patek-Philippe-2526.jpg

It is the first automatic Patek and its enamel dial is in terms of colour actually quite close to the dial of the 5227. I believe it had the Kaliber 12-600AT in it which does not have that many aesthetic similarities to the current Kal 324SC of the Ref. 5227.
If you want to know what the predecessor of Kaliber 324 SC was, i would go back to the year 1960, when Pateks new Kaliber 27-460 (M - M (Mondate) in fact since 1961) was released.

See picture here: 27-460full2.jpg Photo by patek | Photobucket

In my opinion, it has way more similarities to the current 315 / 324 SC Kaliber of Patek, simply based on aesthetics (similar rotor design / finish) and functionality (date).

There is another reason to support my interpretation: The last watch with Kal 27-460 has been made in 1986, in 1983, production of the 315 SC began. So you could very well make the argument that the 315 SC is an updated version of the 27-460.

Whats truly new with the 5227?
I think there is one thing left: The trapezial indexes. As far as i know, Patek has never done those indexes before. If im wrong, id be happy if you could correct me.
Those really are a work of art, because they kind of have three dimensions. I made a picture that hopefully shows that:

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3. Why is the 5227 that great?

This one is easy: Pretty much everything. The 5227 has so much finesse.

There is a guy on watchprosite who reviews the aesthetic dimension of the watch better then i could ever do it. So i am just gonna give you the link and let him speak for me.

http://www.watchprosite.com/?page=wf.forumpost&fi=11&ti=1020678&pi=7227703

There are just a couple of things i want to add:

- It is the nicest dial i have ever seen (i might ignore the PP 5711 / 12, which also is the nicest dial i have ever seen. Never mind).

- The Case-Back is amazing. And what i mean by saying this is: AMAZING. I also love its historic appeal with solid caseback, just like in the good old days :-!

- The watch sits so nice on the wrist. All of my other watches are always a little bit to tight or a little bit loose. Either to high on my wrist or to low. I am quite sensitive on this issue.
However, the 5227 sits just perfect on my wrist. It has never been anything of the above said. There has yet to come a moment in wich i feel the presence of my watch in a negative way. Its so comfy.

- The watch has an amazing size. IMO it wears like a 37 or 38mm watch, yet it has so much presence. Everyone seems to recognize my watch.

- Its the best looking gold i have ever seen. I generally prefer yellow over rosegold. Most watches tend to be like either yellow or pink. For example does Lange and Söhne, an otherwise loved company, not produce very nice gold tones. They are, as i said, either VERY yellow or VERY pink. The 5227 yellow is very warm and deep. If you just see my 5227 without comparison, i think most people would think it is actually a rose gold. I hope you can see what i mean by looking at my pictures.

- It is both very classy and aggressive and modern. In my conservative world, i think its almost a sporty watch. Yet, you can also wear this watch easily with a suit. Most other elegant watches (think : Patek 5119) look way more "conservative" and you cant really wear them with a Polo. The 5227, however, can be worn with everything i own [one exception: My Michigan State Football Jersey. LOL, im gonna work on this one.]

I have read some opinions that were like this: "The 5227 is a nice watch, yet, its to expensive. Just add a couple of bucks and buy a complicated watch".

I think this is not a very good argument. Lets check Pateks Line-Up.

5227 R 31.480 Euro
5146 R 37.550 Euro Annual Calendar with Power Reserve
5396R 43.520 Euro Annual Calendar with Day and Date in "windows"
5130R 39.920 Euro WorldTime.

So if you want to own a golden Patek Philippe Watch, there is basically only one watch with more complications within the 10 K range, the 5146. And all the great things mentioned in my post and in the review at the watchprosite are absent in the 5146. Lugs, Dial, Caseback, Indexes - You name it.
The 5146 might has more functionality, but it is by far not as pretty as the 5227.

Light Sky Sunlight Tree Atmosphere

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4. ... and why the 5227 is still not a perfect watch

Really, there is just one thing that bothers me with the 5227. And this is the originality of the design. In a german magazine, i found an interview with Sandrine Stern. She specifically talks about the 5227 later in this interview. Check this:

Question: When you want to redesign an excisting watch of your collection. do you look what kind of new trends there are in the watch world?

Sandrine Stern: No. The only trends we look at are the design of our straps. When we do a redesign, we really forget everything. We basically start from scratch. We dont want to get influenced by other designs. Maybe in the second step, then we look at what we already have at our museum.

But how about those indexes? As i mentioned, i think its quite a great idea to make those kinds of indexes. But this is not a Patek idea. This is what Vacheron made a couple of years earlier (Check the current Vacheron Partimony Line-Up, Particularly Ref. 85180 and 81180).

Check this link:
http://www.vacheron-constantin.com/...content/productdetail/image.scale.520.850.png

I think its been a good decision to change the indexes. Patek always re-used their indexes from the early ref. 96 (again, see: 5196, 5296, 5153, 5124 and so on....). So its nice to see something different. And their new indexes really play so well with the light.
Yet, why not think about an own idea of how their new indexes could look like?

And if you dont have a great idea, its ok. Just make what Vacheron makes for a couple of years. But if you do this, dont get caught in the act saying that it is important for you to not get influenced by other designs while redesigning your collection.

Let me say that this is really a minor issue to an otherwise perfect watch.

Another point is, that my Patek is very precise, yet i have the feeling that it does not keep good time when it is very cold out there (i mean like -9 degree celsius or like 15 degree Fahrenheit).

Could this be true? I think that when i walk like two hours in the cold, my otherwise very accurate watch is almost 2 seconds off. Or is it immpossible that there is a link to the temperature (knowing that the 324 has a Spiromax in it)

5. My 5227 as a one-of-a-kind watch

I actually got two engravings on my 5227. A text on the back, and a truly amazing engraving on the inside of the case back.

Word from Patek is that they cant do an Enamel work on the inside of the caseback, because it is to thin. However, i got an engraving on the inside (an alpine landscape) which is very well done. I never imagined that they can produce THAT good looking engravings.
Yet, i am not going to show you any pictures, because i dont want them to appear on the internet.

I also bought matching cufflinks (those are not from PP). Those golden dots are both in the center of the cufflinks and at every minute of the PP. o|o|
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I hope you had fun reading my review. Thanks for taking your time.
 
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#5 ·
Nice discussion.

The 5127/5227 is among my favorite "general purpose" HEWs.

I have to say you're the first person whom I've "encountered" who found "wow" in the design. Indeed, for myself, that it lacks flair and and yet still appeals is the "wow factor" about it that surprises me.

I love that you chose some cufflinks to echo the dot theme. That's a nice complimentary touch. Well done. I like PP's links too, although not the ones with the PP logo. The ones that share the PP dial designs are the ones I like best for they work nicely whether one wears a PP watch with them or doesn't.

Lovely watch. Enjoy.

All the best.
 
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#9 ·
Thanks for all of your kind comments. Ive been confident in my decisions anyways, yet it is still a great feeling to get my decision confirmed by those nice comments :)

Nice discussion.

The 5127/5227 is among my favorite "general purpose" HEWs.

All the best.
Tony, Could you name some of your other favorites?

I am surprised at only one thing in your review, which is your description of the winding of the Traditionelle you looked at--mine winds as smoothly as butter.
mlcor, its funny because i dont really trust my opinion on this matter. I thought, couple of years ago, that the Patek Kaliber 215 PS doenst wind very nice. Then tried it again some yrs later and absolutely loved it. In any case does the crown of the Vacheron snap back like half a turn everytime you put your fingers off the crown after winding, or do you even question this obervation?
 
#8 ·
A beautiful piece, and an excellent review with terrific pictures. I am surprised at only one thing in your review, which is your description of the winding of the Traditionelle you looked at--mine winds as smoothly as butter. In any case, for a daily wear watch, choosing between yours and the guilloché boutique edition of the VC, I think you've chosen wisely, as that VC IMO is too dressy for every day use. Enjoy!
 
#12 ·
Congrats on getting that beautiful watch. I think the hinged caseback is the most desirable attribute of that watch.

Not sure I agree about the indices being similar to VC's though. I mean, how many different ways can one shape rectangular indices? It's inevitable they look resemble each other.

And nice observation about the 27-460 being the predecessor of the 315 and 324.
 
#13 ·
I think you are right - to a certain degree. I mean, i counted like 12 different indices in Pateks current collection [and i didnt even count numerals]. Maybe there are only 11 or 10 and i was wrong - but you get the idea.

I also think that there are so many differences, and i mean improvments, by Patek over the similar VC model, that you could make the argument that Patek has made a genuine style and Vacheron is playing catch-up. I guess my point is more that i am irritated about Patek marketing communication [think: "we are basically the only reason why the craft of enamel still exists"].
If i would not think that Patek does a better Job than Vacheron, i would not have chosen this piece. I just think that other companies are a little bit more classy in their communication while showing similar craftmanship.
Then again: This is why Patek is THAT important in todays industry.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Got drawn in here from the Facebook link to this topic..

Absolutely lovely.

In the list of imperfections though: The text 'swiss made' at the bottom takes priority over having a full set of minute markers in that area?

I'd say the origin is already pretty obvious by having 'Geneva' there. (as opposed to.. Patek Philippe from.. what.. New Jersey.. Huddersfield... anyway. :) ) so yes, it's pretty obvious where it's from, and Swiss Made could and should appear somewhere, but why sacrifice those poor little minute markers down there?

Finally let me apologize for this post, but that's what you get when you link it to all the plebs on Facebook, WUS. :)
 
#18 ·
Very nice. Thanks for sharing. Only Patek can create and patent a hinge on the back that beautifully
 
#19 ·
Congrats! Nice review. I have the opportunity to see the VC boutique edition the other day. It's beautiful compare to the normal versions. It's best to see it in person.
 
#22 ·
When will the hobnail-bezel Calatravas catch up to the 39mm 5227?

The 3919 increased from 33.45mm to 36mm in 2006, 21 years after its introduction. By extrapolation, the next size increase for the hobnail bezels will happen in 2027.
:-(

Here is the current Calatrava lineup:

5116 36mm
5119 36mm
5120 35mm
5153 38mm
5196 37mm
5227 39mm
5296 38mm
5297 38mm
5298 38mm
6000 37mm

 
#24 ·
My wish? Just the 5116 / -9, same size, but with a new, bigger, spectacular movement :) I think the 215ps should die sooner rather than later. And once this has happend, im in for a watch with that 215ps, because is has much more historic appeal than that new PP movement :)
 
#30 ·
Fantastic review - love your enthusiasm for this watch.

If I was in the market for a simple daily dress watch I would definitely consider the 5127/5227 a strong contender..
 
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