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My first high-end watch consideration: ALS Saxonia or FP Journe Chronometre Bleu

17K views 67 replies 33 participants last post by  Emospence 
#1 ·
Hi all,

Honestly, the hidden beauty from in-house movement has been fascinating for a long time. And, as a gift for myself for huge milestone in this year, I consider purchasing 1 high-end watch. 10 years ago, I really loved partial skeletonized watch, that's the reason why I chose Zenith Power Reserve. As time goes by, my love for Zenith is still there, but I want something that can easily hide underneath my cuff while reveals its charm in some occasion only. That's the reason I come with 2 masterpiece:

A Lange & Sohne: Saxonia
Ref: 219.026 White Gold - Manual Winding

FP Journe Chronometre Bleu

I haven't made final decision yet and hope that some posts in this decent place can help to give me some other perspectives... Moreover, is there any model that suits as dress watch with budget under 20k?

Thanks for all recommendation!

Phong Duong
 
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#39 ·
Elegance is not about being noticed, it's about being remembered.
― Habeeb Akande

For me, when it comes to dress watches, the priority list begins with thin and ends with uncomplicated.

Patek Philippe have quite a lot of excellent dress watch choices in their Calatrava line. My two personal favorites are below.

Patek Philippe 5120/3520 (the 5119 is okay too)



Patek Philippe 5127/5227 -- I find this one to be the best one pictured here for all purpose use.



Piaget have a few watches that I like as dress watches.

Piaget Altiplano



The one with the subdial will do too.



Piaget Altiplano Square



Piaget Emperador



I'm not crazy about exposed tourbillon watches, but if one must the one below with it's enamel landscape motif works just fine. <winks>



This Emperador is a bit busy on the dial for my taste, but again, it'll also serve quite aptly as a dress watch.



Vacheron Constantin also have quite a few options.

Historiques Collection









Vacheron Constantin 1972 -- This is the one I like best...the unique shape, curved caseback, that i didn't have a dress watch designed to be worn with earth tones, and completely hidden lugs -- something I haven't seen much of in general -- are what did it for me.



The black version, limited to a run of 40 pieces, is dressier. (no difference in price) Whereas I'm comfortable wearing the brown one with any dressy business or cocktail party attire, I won't wear it with a dinner jacket because it doesn't look as good on a black strap (I don't think it looks good at all on a black strap, but others may disagree.). That "best with earth tones and blue" aspect is what helps me avoid the angst of trying to choose between it and other dress watches I have. When I'm wearing earth tones, it's the one I choose. Indulgent? Yes, but then I've long maintained that my interest in watches and actually collecting them is, for me, little other than a self indulgence, a personal conceit, if you will.

The one below (the limited edition version) will look good on any strap.



Vacheron Constantin Toledo



Vacheron Constantin Aronde







Vacheron Constantin Malte



The above are just a mere smattering of the dress watch offerings to be found among a tiny, tiny group of HEW makers. Audemars Piguet's Jules Audemar line has a ton of them. Cartier has more than few as well. One can scour through maker after maker, Parmigiani, Chopard, Girard-Perregaux, Kari V, Maitres du Temps, Laurent Ferrier, Credor, the list goes on and on, and every one of them has multiple very fine options.

OP, of the two watches you identified, I see the Saxonia, especially the Saxonia Thin, as a great dress watch choice. I don't see the FJP as a dress watch at all, although it's perfectly fine for wearing with a suit, it's not one I'd pick for a dressy suit, and there's no way I'd wear it with formal attire. Whereas I see any of the dress watches above, including the Saxonia as dressing down quite well, I feel there is a limit to how effectively the CB dresses up.

Of course, nothing I've written here has to do with any watch's merits; here mine are comments pertaining to how my sartorial sensibilities flow. Just as I know how my tastes run, once you know how yours go, you'll know which watch is the one for you.

All the best.

Isn't elegance forgetting what one is wearing?
― Yves Saint Laurent
 
#62 ·
Elegance is not about being noticed, it's about being remembered.
― Habeeb Akande

Isn't elegance forgetting what one is wearing?
― Yves Saint Laurent
Hi Tony,

Thanks so much for your post! I truly appreciated that!

I'm sorry for not mentioning clearly what I truly want about my upcoming purchasing, and there are some info which I keep finding about a new watch:
  • Only 3 hands.
  • In-house movement: this is just my pure obsession...
  • Round case from 35 to 40mm.
  • There is no crystal neither on case nor dial :-\. I really want a solid case.
  • white gold or other material (platinum, tantalum...) because I find rose gold, pink gold is quite catchy...

Honestly, it really consumed me a lot of time to read through your posts :p.

Thanks for your help!

Phong
 
#41 ·
Having 6 ALS I have a slight obsession with the brand but.....

My Chrono Bleu is one of my favorite pieces I wear. It's size is a little small typically for my preference but that is offset by so many factors.

First the movement is one of the most accurate watches made.

The case color and metal no one has mentioned is one of the hardest metals to work with making it one engineering add to its characteristic.

The simple dial and seconds I think is very well done and proportioned very well.

The face doesn't actually change colors that much as others have mentioned I just think some of those are just bad pictures. I think the Bleu is pretty consistent.

My Bleu has also taken a very nice value increase from my original purchase price so many years ago so that doesn't hurt either.

The ONLY downfall to the Bleu for me is its not so versatile color. Wearing it many times is dictated by your choice of clothing for the day as it clashes with many color types.


The ALS mentioned is also spectacular so my short answer.

BOTH!
 
#47 ·
I don't really see brands like ALS and FPJ as having "entry level" watches. They just make different types of watches and some of those cost more than others due to the nature of the individual models.

If someone really wants a Datograph but can't afford one, would they go out and buy a Saxonia Thin instead? I don't think so but others may disagree.
 
#48 ·
If someone really wants a Datograph but can't afford one, would they go out and buy a Saxonia Thin instead? I don't think so but others may disagree.
Most buyers actually do! How do you otherwise explain a relatively small number of complicated watches sold. Nobody likes them?
I myself don't do that. I'd like to buy 1815 Up/Down, Lange 1 and Datograph (preferably all of them) but I will never buy a Saxonia instead.

I can understand this behavior for a car buyer who is not a car fan(as myself). I'd like to own M3 and GL but I bought X3 as a compromise.
This is actually why I like watches - it's part of your life where you don't need to compromise, may skip everything besides your grails and still can use your phone to tell the time.
 
#50 ·
You want it or not, a watch brand marketing sees it just like that. Entry level.

Then my point was that FPJ made the Bleu to have some unique features comparing to their other offerings so that even it's the least expensive Journe it doesn't scream that!

Other brands tend to make their entry-level products look uninteresting and obviously "cheaper" comparing to their more expensive ones. German car makers are a good example of this approach.
 
#52 ·
You want it or not, a watch brand marketing sees it just like that. Entry level.

Then my point was that FPJ made the Bleu to have some unique features comparing to their other offerings so that even it's the least expensive Journe it doesn't scream that!

Other brands tend to make their entry-level products look uninteresting and obviously "cheaper" comparing to their more expensive ones. German car makers are a good example of this approach.
Fact or opinion?
 
#51 ·
I tend to acknowledge the existence of entry level offering with watch company, regardless of what "end" they are. Entry level is there just by definition - you eat at 6:00PM and in most cultures you are having dinner. It's okay if there is something about not calling it a dinner that amuses you, it simply doesn't change a thing for the rest the way they interpret it.

More importantly, it's a business where success is defined by how well a company makes the market justify the money they ask. Cannot imagine how things work in the business without entry level concept.
 
#53 · (Edited)
As a price point and pricing strategy thing, sure, I agree, there is necessarily a lowest price point for any company's assortment of goods offered for sale. As a qualitative thing, however, "entry level" and HEWs is very hard for me to rationalize. The language of one or two earlier remarks about the Saxonia and CB being entry level implied rather clearly to me the qualitative sense of "entry level" rather than the quantitative; thus my earlier long post on the matter.

Off Topic:
Whatever happened to seven o'clock cocktails at the club followed by dinner at eight? I'd never get enough work done were I to aim routinely for dinner at six. LOL

Mind you, I get the five or six o'clock reservation before going to the theatre. Credit limelights and later electric light bulbs with forever moving performing arts presentation times out of the afternoon and into the evening, and thereby boosting the fortunes of the restaurant industry by giving people a reason to make reservations before seven o'clock in the evening.

Interestingly, "dinner" used to refer not to the time at which one ate, but rather the size of the meal, dinner being the largest meal of the day. Prior to the modern age, dinner was eaten far earlier in the day. I could be mistaken, but I suspect dinner moved to later in the day because business owners didn't cotten so well to the midday productively drop resulting folks feeling sleepy after eating their large meal between noon and two o'clock. There again, the light bulb made eating later a viable option.

Think of what most folks do at Thanksgiving or Christmas, having their dinner in the mid afternoon, whereafter cleaning up and then chillin' is about all they want to do. That one doesn't often want to have a lot of cleanup to do late in the day when, before electric lighting, darkness fell was another driver to eating early.

Having to cook over wood fires also played a role. In the summer, one'd want to have the heat out of the house as much as possible for a more comfortable night's sleep. In the winter, though one might like having the heat, minimizing the risk of popping embers while one slept was far more important for in cities and towns a fire in one place easily spread to neighboring buildings as well, what with thatch roofs, dried hay everywhere, and highly flammable "everything," and one eschewed pouring water on the fire/hearth late in the evening for it wouldn't dry by the morning when one needed to start up a new fire. It's not that they couldn't just light up some fresh, dry wood; it's that the water soaked chunks of wood left from the night before might pop out embers, which is what they didn't want at any time of day. Instead, one cooked a small evening meal using the remaining embers left over from the day's big meal.

All the best.
 
#60 ·
This is a most interesting thread, as it goes to the heart of HEW collecting. To me, judging the various iterations of complicated movements and their increasing cost has no bearing on desirability. I do not lust for a $1 million+ PP with 8 different chimes and other complications, but admire it for the effort it took to design and build it. Likewise, I appreciate a Bugatti Veyron, but wouldn't dream of trading it for my M5, even if I did not care about cost.

If I were to chose for the OP, I would pick the ALS Saxonia. This is purely subjective, of course, as the Journe is a thing of beauty but this particular model does not speak to me. The test of whether I want a watch has more to do with seeing it on someone and wishing it were mine. If I owned a Saxonia and saw a 1815 or Lange 1 on someone's wrist, I would appreciate them, but not necessarily regret my choice of the "lower priced" option.

By the same token, I own and enjoy my PP Nautilus, but don't think of myself as wearing an entry level version when I see a Travel Time Nautilus at twice the cost.

Chacun a son gout.
 
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#61 ·
Unfortunately a busy schedule makes catching up a tad difficult but let's throw in a very important point that people seem to find confusing.

A 5711 Nautilus differs entirely in finishing and attention compared to a Patek repeater or Grand Complication. That is exactly how brands like to distinguish their pieces....in "levels".

So how is FPJ different? He doesn't support this idea and when he decided to make the Chrono Bleu, he gave it the exact same attention as he gave any of his other...more expensive watches. The movement might have been simple but it remained his most accurate stationary movement until 2012 with the debut of the Chrono Optimum.

The dial is his most expensive and most complex to make. Considering he throws away 70% of his dials, if this was "entry level" do you really think he would consider it worth it?

The case takes him 5x longer to make than a platinum case. More than 70 different toolings are needed and he even broke the machine when making his prototype. The dials are at 70% but when they started they threw away 90%!

Finishing, is done in the same way as any other Journe. I would probably say even better than other more expensive Journe pieces. Everything about this piece was made so that a Journe owner is like any other. Whether you own a 700k Sonnerie or a 20k Bleu, you are still wearing a piece signed "Invenit et Fecit".... Journe's promise to perfection!



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