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Which Watch Brands Belong in the High-End Forum? Which Ones Do Not?

185K views 656 replies 154 participants last post by  WTSP 
#1 ·
doesn't it seem like there are certain brands that are brought up here, but should not be?

is TAG Heuer a "high-end" watch? i like omega, but is it "high-end"? i have an IWC, but i don't think i would consider it high-end.

i wouldn't expect any arguing about Lange or Patek. any others?

just interested to see what brands people think belong or don't belong here.
 
#3 ·
+1

The AT with the annual calendar complication is definitely a high-end watch in my book |>

 
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#4 ·
Except entry level Pilot and Portifino models. All other IWC watches are considered high-end.
For Omega, all models with the new Calibre 8XXX are high-end. Tag Heure is not a high-end brand.
however I think they have one model with Zenith Chronograph movement. That's definitely high-end.
and many others JLC Rolex Piaget ......
 
#48 ·
I would like to narrow down the range of IWC models that qualify as "high-end" a little further: imho, it starts at the Portuguese 7 Days / Ingenieur, caliber 80110 upwards, level.....FYI I have both IWC and JLC, and the Portuguese Chronograph is definitely a notch down from the Master Control Chronograph, not just because of the more pedestrian movement used in the IWC, but also due to marginally lower quality fit and finish....

Also disagree with the statement that ALL Omegas featuring calibre 8xxx are high-end...some definitely are, while others fall short in the fit and finish department, when compared to, let's say, GO, JLC, GP, Blancpain etc., but that's just my 2 cents....

Cheers,

Pieter
 
#5 ·
If I first try to analyse the question, I'm left to ask what does "high-end" actually mean. High price, high horlogerie, or both (they are directly related I think)? Nowadays many medium priced brands feature a high-end model for advertising and prestige. Often these special models are designed and manufactured by specialist outside firms. I would judge each individual model for its merits in terms of horological value, rather than buy into the halo-effect of saying an entire brand is "high-end" because of its show pieces.
 
#7 ·
I agree with beyond time to some degree. While brand is important when classifying watches into categories, at times, certain models are exceptions. This is just my own opinion.

My criteria are follows:

History (contributions to watch making)
Price
Complication
Finish
Design
Public Awareness

Patek, VC, AP , Breguet, Lange, BP <---all high end

UN, JLC, IWC, Rolex, Zenith <---- most are high ends (95% of the models)

Chronoswiss, Panerai <--- (70% high end.. this is where it starts to get weird)

Omega, TAG <--- (5% are high ends)
 
#8 ·
Much of the history is bull manure that comes out of marketing, kinda like lipstick.
I agree with beyond time to some degree. While brand is important when classifying watches into categories, at times, certain models are exceptions. This is just my own opinion.

My criteria are follows:

History (contributions to watch making)
Price
Complication
Finish
Design
Public Awareness

Patek, VC, AP , Breguet, Lange, BP <---all high end

UN, JLC, IWC, Rolex, Zenith <---- most are high ends (95% of the models)

Chronoswiss, Panerai <--- (70% high end.. this is where it starts to get weird)

Omega, TAG <--- (5% are high ends)
 
#16 · (Edited)
Luxury Brands?
Rolex,
Breitling,
Omega,
IWC,
Bulgari,
Panerai,
Hublot,
Tag,
Bremont,
Montblanc,
Bell and Ross.


High-end Brands:

Patek,
JLC,
AP,
Blancpain,
Cartier,
Lange,
Greubel Forsey,
Corum,
Breguet,
Glashutte...

cheers.
 
#19 ·
lol.. I am assuming you own a cartier and a maurice lacroix... lol

Luxury Brands?
Rolex,
Breitling,
Omega,
IWC,
Bulgari,
Panerai,
Hublot,
Tag,
Bremont,
Montblanc,
Bell and Ross.

High-end Brands:
Patek,
JLC,
AP,
Blancpain,
Cartier,
Lange,
Greubel Forsey,
Maurice Lacroix,
Breguet,
Glashutte...

cheers.
 
#20 ·
I think high-end means different things to different people. To some it's based on price, to others finish, exclusivity, etc. I've seen this topic bantered around the web and no one can really agree on shared definition.

My experience has been high-end brands meaning - all/mostly assembled by hand, in low numbers, with exceptional finishing. So while IWC and Rolex may have models priced very high, because most of their watches are made by machines, I don't consider them high-end manufacturer.

Compared to PP or AP, where they're made in very low quantities (across all their lines), mostly assembled by hand with great finishes. Even the "low-end" PP or AP models are mostly assembled by hand.
Anyway, just my $0.02.
 
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#21 ·
A brand being "high-end" is a somwhat amorphous concept meaning different things to different people as others have said. To me, low production volumes, high-level of finish, in-house movement manufacture and innovative features are at the heart of "high-end".

Brand pricing among luxury brands is very much driven by the percentage of the watch line made from precious metals vs. steel or titanium etc. To me the brand's were the majority of the watches that they offer are high-end are:
  • A. Lange & Sohne (Richemont)
  • Audemars Piguet
  • Blancpain (Swatch Group)
  • Breguet (Swatch Group)
  • Patek Phillipe
  • Vacheron Constantin (Richemont)
Some brands that make a good portion of their line in the "High-end" are:
  • Chopard
  • Girard-Perrgaux (Sowind)
  • Glashutte Original (Swatch Group)
  • IWC (Richemont)
  • Jaeger-LeCoultre (Richemont)
  • Ulysse Nardin
These are my "dirty dozen".

The high-end watches from these companies match the first list, it is just that they sell more watches in their lines made from steel or utilizing commodity manufacture movements. Other brands such as Cartier, Montblanc and Hublot are offering more high-end pieces as well.

My $.02,

Bob
 
#31 ·
I agree that questions/pictures/whatever of Omegas, Breitlings, Tags, & company are best served in the other forums. But sometimes one of those borderline watches shows up on this particular forum and usually I'm glad someone shared the pictures, anyway. The worst thing that happens is it gets moved to the public forum - and if that didn't happen Amine would be out of work :-d
 
#34 ·
I love how some think Cartier not high end! They are credited for the first wristwatch. Their designs are regarded as some of the finest and long lasting in the world. Look at some of the movements in them OK there are some ETA but there are also Piaget et all. High end is also about something that the sum of the parts do not make and Cartier is a highly respected Jeweller and watch maker. Of course most members of watch forums are into sports watches and such so the Jewellery side of watchmaking IE the exquisite fit and finish does not matter so much. Also you have to think of the history of the company and what it has achieved and Cartier certainly has an enviable and justified brand recognition.

Now personally I would never put panerai in the high end. There fit and finish in my personal experience leave a great deal to be desired, more a fashion brand than anything else but that is just me!
 
#35 ·
i agree that cartier is above panerai. panerai makes nice watches, but not the best. high-end should be for the best. now whether or cartier is high-end is up for debate. but it is definitely above panerai.

I love how some think Cartier not high end! They are credited for the first wristwatch. Their designs are regarded as some of the finest and long lasting in the world. Look at some of the movements in them OK there are some ETA but there are also Piaget et all. High end is also about something that the sum of the parts do not make and Cartier is a highly respected Jeweller and watch maker. Of course most members of watch forums are into sports watches and such so the Jewellery side of watchmaking IE the exquisite fit and finish does not matter so much. Also you have to think of the history of the company and what it has achieved and Cartier certainly has an enviable and justified brand recognition.

Now personally I would never put panerai in the high end. There fit and finish in my personal experience leave a great deal to be desired, more a fashion brand than anything else but that is just me!
 
#39 · (Edited)
Excellent thread. It reveals many of the problems and pitfalls with defining "high end".

I have just two things to add. First, high end should be defined by the watch, not the brand. Otherwise, you end up with absurb situations. For example, some posters have stated that JLC brand watches are high end while Zenith is not.
By going off brand, that means a Quartz JLC Reverso is high end while a Zenith El Primero is not. I think even most people who advocate for JLC recognize that as laughable.

Second, trying to define high-end based on price is also dubious. Most here agree that a $20,000 blinged out quartz is not high end. But some people are willing to still use price to say a watch under $5,000 or $10,000, or $20,000 is not. Others try to use price as a disqualifier when they can find no other reason to claim that their preferred high priced brand is superior.

This opens a can of worms that again leads to absurb conclusions. Based on price, some in this thread claim that Zenith is not high end. This means that Zenith El Primeros, manufacture watches containing what many experts consider as the best mechanical chronograph movement ever made, is not high end- while brands containing inferior chronograph movements are high end. All because Zenith doesn't charge enough for their watches. Another way to state that is, "My watch is high end because I spent more on it"

In short, defining high end based on brand or price is flawed. Let's stick to appreciating each watch for its own merits, rather than what the watch's hangtag has printed on it.
 
#43 ·
What no Harry Winston???
 
#44 ·
I was wondering , what about Perrelet ?
 
#45 ·
whilst there watches are interesting I think this is another of those brands that have been dug up out of obscurity or bankruptcy and been given some mythical status by a marketing company working for their parent company. For me they rank just below TAG and about the same as Frederic Constant. I would rather have a longines if I were in that market, much more honest watch IMHO.

I think it must also be remembered that companies that get bashed because they are jewellery companies as well is missing the point!
Once you get above timex they are all jewellery I would say!
A Patek, VC, Cartier, JLC et al all do the same things that you would find in a $100 digital timex. The reason we all go an spend crazy money on them is that they look pretty and we buy into the marketing schtick so why not be honest about it and not make one brand better than the other! Don't get me wrong. I love wearing something that I know has had a certain amount of made by hand in the production. I love wearing the brands I do because of the history of them and I love that they are made of precious metals or have an exquisite fit and finish but my Rolex or Cartiers keep no better time than my Timex easy reader! As for longevity. Well, my much cheaper vintage Bulova Accutron is humming away to perfection 40 years later and cost a fraction of a Patek or other high end brand.
I think really we need to be honest. High end for most of us equals vanity! I know, most will argue, a great many will say " no, I buy for the quality or history and don't care what people think"..Rubbish! If that were the case you would all be wearing lesser brands. I am owning up to the fact that the name on the dial makes me feel good and a little special in my otherwise mundane world!
If it came down to function and reliability then we would all be happy wearing a Timex (which by the way I love as it is what I term an honest watchmaker as it makes what it says and no more!)
 
#46 ·
shandy, a quality automatic watches cannot be produced by timex. These high ends are intricately crafted and run w/o batteries. I do agree with you to a certain extent that vanity fuels our desire to consume these overpriced goods. And in terms of functionality, I do agree that these are all just novelty items.

People wear automatic watches not for practical use but because it is a fascinating work of art. In our digital world, where everything is powered by electricity, automatic watches are indeed rare gems. So taking this into account, I don't think people are as vain as you think they are.

This kind of comparison is similar to a painting vs a television. While the tv does provide much more entertainment as opposed to an archaic painting, the history and the craftmanship beyond its creation is what really sets these two object apart.

I find a rare caravaggio painting much more fascinating as opposed to some LCD televison from china.
 
#47 · (Edited)
:roll: I wear my automatics cause there watches, I don't see them as works of art and
I've doin so for 49 years. Manual winds before that. Oh, manual winds are NOT "retarder" versions
of automatics.
shandy, a quality automatic watches cannot be produced by timex. These high ends are intricately crafted and run w/o batteries. I do agree with you to a certain extent that vanity fuels our desire to consume these overpriced goods. And in terms of functionality, I do agree that these are all just novelty items.

People wear automatic watches not for practical use but because it is a fascinating work of art. In our digital world, where everything is powered by electricity, automatic watches are indeed rare gems. So taking this into account, I don't think people are as vain as you think they are.

This kind of comparison is similar to a painting vs a television. While the tv does provide much more entertainment as opposed to an archaic painting, the history and the craftmanship beyond its creation is what really sets these two object apart.

I find a rare caravaggio painting much more fascinating as opposed to some LCD televison from china.
 
#52 ·
Girard Perregaux seems to be conspicuous with its absence?
 
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#56 ·
These weren't mentioned.
Invicta, Timex, Fossil, Casio, Swatch, Armitron, Pulsar, etc. don't belong here.
 
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