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Which Watch Brands Belong in the High-End Forum? Which Ones Do Not?

185K views 656 replies 154 participants last post by  WTSP 
#1 ·
doesn't it seem like there are certain brands that are brought up here, but should not be?

is TAG Heuer a "high-end" watch? i like omega, but is it "high-end"? i have an IWC, but i don't think i would consider it high-end.

i wouldn't expect any arguing about Lange or Patek. any others?

just interested to see what brands people think belong or don't belong here.
 
#206 · (Edited)
I would say that there is a TOTAL difference between "High End BRAND", and ''High End WATCH".
For example, AP, Patek, JLC and etc, all produce Grand Complications, Keep a sense of timeless style, and Treat Finishing as just as important as the internals of a watch. That makes them an Extremely High End Brand. The same would go for Rolex, Omega, Breitling as decent high-end names as well since they also insert a great amount of design, effort, and material on some models. However, even High end BRANDS, produce non-high end material. For example, IWC produces incredible classy, refined, well finished watches, but for example, you compare a simple entry level IWC Spitfire with lets say, A Daytona. obviously the Daytona would be more High end WATCH, with probably similar finishing efforts, but with a better movement and all. Another would be the Daytona 4130 vs the Breitling B01 on a Navitimer or Chronomat, they would almost be pretty much the same High end WATCH, but brandwise, rolex may be perceived as more high-end because of their lines of watches, more classic less tooly style, and more political top-of-the-food-chain brand ambassadors. In the end, I guess we should really separate High end BRANDS from WATCHES. Each brand has it's specialty watches, Each brand has a theme to follow as well. If VC suddenly started producing 2-3,000 dollar entry level watches with borrowed movements that are lets say.. Mickey Mouse themed...., that would surely affects its "High End Brand" Image making VC less "great", but that doesnt mean their specialty high end watches' quality would degrade. Their best of the best will still be High end WATCHES.
 
#207 ·
I certainly do agree that the reason such threads can turn into such intense arguments is due to the fact that there are no set criteria to define what a 'high-end' watch is. It is a colloquial term (not even the horological industry defines watches as 'high-end'- I'm pretty sure, like all other industries, they have about a thousand sub genres of what a watch is/fits into to establish their target market). As 'high-end' is extremely general and subjective, it does lead to some heated, yet enjoyable debating. Gentlemen, it is in threads like these that we truly show our passion for watches.

Now, here is a list I have personally drawn up to be high-end. I have not set out scientific criteria for my list, but it is what, from my experience I feel are watches that are above the usual luxury brand standard in movement, finishing/building quality, name, movement and ultimately, price point. In regards to the price point, I am only considering the prices of the watches themselves, not when studded by 20 carats of diamonds.

Here goes !


Prestige/Ultra-Luxury/High-End/Exclusive

A. Lange & Sohne
Audemars Pigeut
Breguet
Blancpain (some would say they are luxury watches, but they hold a status above say, Omega and other fine luxury watchmakers)
Chronoswiss (in the lowest end of the high end spectrum, but they nonetheless make some very fine watches)
Girard-Perregaux
Glashutte Original
Harry Winston
Hubolt (this is very debatable but their watches certainly don't fit into luxury price/image wise, and they do ultimately make sought after higher-end watches)
International Watch Company (upper end of their offerings)
Jaquet Droz
Jaeger-LeCoultre
Patek Philippe
Ulysse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin

NOTE- Tbe below list is in no way exhaustive.

Luxury-

Rolex
Omega
Panerai
Grand Seiko
Piaget
Cartier
Chopard


Upper Premium-

Maurice Lacorix
Fredrique Constant
etc.


Anyways, one gets the jist of things ! Feel free to chime in or add what you please.
 
#208 ·
i would add Zenith to the top list. i would add Longines, Baume et Mercier, and Union Glashuette to the upper premium list.

I certainly do agree that the reason such threads can turn into such intense arguments is due to the fact that there are no set criteria to define what a 'high-end' watch is. It is a colloquial term (not even the horological industry defines watches as 'high-end'- I'm pretty sure, like all other industries, they have about a thousand sub genres of what a watch is/fits into to establish their target market). As 'high-end' is extremely general and subjective, it does lead to some heated, yet enjoyable debating. Gentlemen, it is in threads like these that we truly show our passion for watches.

Now, here is a list I have personally drawn up to be high-end. I have not set out scientific criteria for my list, but it is what, from my experience I feel are watches that are above the usual luxury brand standard in movement, finishing/building quality, name, movement and ultimately, price point. In regards to the price point, I am only considering the prices of the watches themselves, not when studded by 20 carats of diamonds.

Here goes !

Prestige/Ultra-Luxury/High-End/Exclusive

A. Lange & Sohne
Audemars Pigeut
Breguet
Blancpain (some would say they are luxury watches, but they hold a status above say, Omega and other fine luxury watchmakers)
Chronoswiss (in the lowest end of the high end spectrum, but they nonetheless make some very fine watches)
Girard-Perregaux
Glashutte Original
Harry Winston
Hubolt (this is very debatable but their watches certainly don't fit into luxury price/image wise, and they do ultimately make sought after higher-end watches)
International Watch Company (upper end of their offerings)
Jaquet Droz
Jaeger-LeCoultre
Patek Philippe
Ulysse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin

NOTE- Tbe below list is in no way exhaustive.

Luxury-

Rolex
Omega
Panerai
Grand Seiko
Piaget
Cartier
Chopard

Upper Premium-

Maurice Lacorix
Fredrique Constant
etc.

Anyways, one gets the jist of things ! Feel free to chime in or add what you please.
 
#209 · (Edited)
I've seen how TAG Heuer watches are made, and they are far from the fashion brand that many assume the brand to be.

To me, quality is upper-most in terms of high-end.

I wouldn't put Omega in the same league as Rolex. Close, but not the same. TAG Heuer, quality-wise, is a direct rival to Omega.
 
#211 ·
A perfect example of the perception of TAG Heuer vs. the reality. TAG is not pure ETA. Their Calibre 1887 isn't a slightly modified ETA movement. It's a greatly improved movement that once belonged to Seiko until TAG bought the rights to it. (And TAG was the one who greatly improved it.) Also, some Aquaracers contain a Sellita SW200 movement instead of an ETA 2824-2. The ones that have a "-01" directly after the #, signify that there's a Sellita inside instead of an ETA.

Also, with watches, there's no reason to go with a "lesser of two evils." Plenty of other brands to pick from, in a variety of categories if TAG and Omega don't excite a buyer.
 
#218 · (Edited)
tag does not belong . . .
Guys, I'm not being sarcastic. I would honestly like to see specific reasons why some consider TAG Heuer not to part of the group.

I suspect the main reason is due to the ingrained belief that TAG is simply a fashion brand. (Not true. I've seen how TAG Heuer watches are made. Far from simply a fashion brand.) And that it's currently trendy to look down upon the brand.
 
#216 ·
I might want to seperate high end and non high end through a simple criteria..

Watches that people buy because of the brand/marketing technique or watches that pple buy because of their watch making ability. The first sort would fit things like Rolex and Panerai while the second would be like a JLC (which to me sucks bad in the marketing department) or a PP (which does great on both)
 
#220 ·
Monocrom, I assume this is the video you're referring to about how Tags are made?



This is a cool video of how a Blancpain tourbillon is made:

 
#221 ·
The circle game...

This forum is not about who is high-end and who is not. It is a catch all for high-end brands without individual forums to discuss them in. So on WUS, German Brand Forum covers a myriad of German brands (e.g. A. Lange & Sohne and Glashutte Original are represented there). Other brands have individual forums of their own (e.g. Grand Seiko, Hublot, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Rolex and Zenith for example). But there are many high-end brands that have no representation on WUS other than in the Public Forum such as:

Audemars Piguet
Blancpain
Breguet
Chopard
FP Journe
Girard-Perregaux
Jaquet Droz
H. Moser & Cie.
Parmigiani
Patek Philippe
Piaget
Ulysse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin

Come to mind (there are many others). This is why a catch all forum was created. The endless debate of who is high-end and who is not will continue in cyber-circles as proven in this thread.

My $ .02,

Bob
 
#280 ·
Re: The circle game...

I agree with your point about this being a forum for all of those high-end watches that do not have another forum. But there is also room here for discussion of some of those watches that do have their own forums. For example, "Should I get the Lange or the JLC?" Change that question to IWC vs Omega and perhaps then the question doesn't belong here.

This forum is not about who is high-end and who is not. It is a catch all for high-end brands without individual forums to discuss them in. So on WUS, German Brand Forum covers a myriad of German brands (e.g. A. Lange & Sohne and Glashutte Original are represented there). Other brands have individual forums of their own (e.g. Grand Seiko, Hublot, IWC, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Rolex and Zenith for example). But there are many high-end brands that have no representation on WUS other than in the Public Forum such as:

Audemars Piguet
Blancpain
Breguet
Chopard
FP Journe
Girard-Perregaux
Jaquet Droz
H. Moser & Cie.
Parmigiani
Patek Philippe
Piaget
Ulysse Nardin
Vacheron Constantin

Come to mind (there are many others). This is why a catch all forum was created. The endless debate of who is high-end and who is not will continue in cyber-circles as proven in this thread.

My $ .02,

Bob
 
#223 · (Edited)
Let me reproduce a helpful table from chronocentric.

Chronocentric


High-End Luxury
There are always superb options when money is no object.
Expect To Get:
A particularly refined watch recognized only by people "in the know." Very exclusive in design and craftsmanship, produced in small numbers, available through only very specialized dealers. In short, these are the Rolls Royce class of timepieces.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
A Lange and Sohne, Alain Silberstein, Audemars Piguet, Blancpain, Breguet, Franck Muller, JLC, Parmigiani, Patek Phillipe, Ulysse Nardin, Vacheron Constantinstarting at $5,000 for Steel models
starting at $10,000 for Gold on a leather strap
starting at $20,000 for Gold on a Gold bracelet
with the sky as the limit. Some watches can exceed $2,000,000.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
Either highly distinctive or ultra-conservative.Very to extremely limited production. Partially to completely handcrafted.Hand finished mechanical movements either developed and produced by the same company ('in-house') or bought from specialty movement houses and highly customized. Additional mechanical complications--from obvious ones like moon phases and power reserve indicators to very subtle ones like correctly handling all the obscure conditions of the Gregorian calendar.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold mainly through very exclusive and high-end jewelry dealers. While some modest discounts are customary, larger discounts are rare. Some of these are available through gray market dealers. But on such exclusive and expensive products, it is not usually a good idea to buy through unauthorized sources.Because of high new watch prices and limited production, used models are in notable demand and still command quite decent prices.Always collectible, always valuable.
Summary:
If you have the kind of money necessary to play in this field, then you likely do understand what the true merits and values of world-class luxury items have to offer. These are the products that impress those in the know, not the average Joe on the street. Exclusivity and extremes of refinement and jewelry value are king here.
Luxury
The largest, most widely known class of luxury timepieces
Expect To Get:
An elegant, valuable, stylish and prestigious watch that will serve you well for a long time. Of quality and durability that the watch can be passed down to your children. If maintained in good condition, can be resold whether it is 6 months or 30 years old.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
Breitling, Cartier, Ebel, Omega, Rolex$1,000-$4,000 for Steel models
$2,500-$8,000 for Gold on a leather strap
$5,000-$20,000 for Gold on a Gold bracelet
Only modest discounts available through most brand-authorized dealers. Moderate discounts available from unauthorized "gray market" dealers.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
Trend-setting styles that range from traditional to highly original. Each brand usually has at least one or two very distinctive styles.Cases and bracelets mass-produced, but with the superlative fit and finish of fine jewelry. Surgical grade steel. Solid gold of 18 karat or sometimes 14 karat. Highly scratch-resistant sapphire crystals.High-end movements mass produced by the brand, or by a different company and then often customized by the brand. Dominantly very high-grade quartz and chronometer-grade mechanical. Digital quartz not seen at this level except for a few very specialized aerospace watches.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold officially mainly through dealers of higher-end jewelry. Though several forms of unauthorized resellers exist. Discounts through authorized dealers are restricted by the manufacturers to avoid cheapening the brand image.Superb market. Watches in this class are well sought after, but their high initial pricing encourages many buyers to seek used ones to better suit their budgets.Superb market. Watches in this class can last for many decades and are readily available through many reputable used watch dealers.
Summary:
This is the main tier of true luxury watches. Overall, these can be a good value because manufacturers at this level are not skimping to offer 'luxury' products at more moderate prices--yet they mostly do not go to outrageous excess in details without regard to cost of the highest-end brands. Better durability and modest depreciation rates make the long-term cost of ownership of these watches quite reasonable. Used watches in this tier can be an outstanding value.
Pseudo Luxury Watches
When you want a better luxury watch, but don't want to spend so much
Expect To Get:
An elegant and stylish watch that will serve you well for a moderate number of years.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
Baume & Mercier, Raymond Weil, Tag Heuer$500-$2,000 for Steel models
$750-$4,000 for Gold models
Moderate to heavy discounts available through various dealers.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
More trend following than trend leading.Mass-produced with adequate fit and finish. Steel. Filled or solid gold. Crystals may be mineral glass, acrylic or sometimes synthetic sapphire.High-volume mass-production. Mostly analog quartz and non-chronometer grade mechanical. These brands tend to focus mostly on luxury-style exteriors equipped with very common, unexceptional watch movements.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold as the 'better' brands in department stores and mall-type watch store chains. Sometimes sold as the 'low-end' brands in fine jewelry stores.Limited market. Despite some of these being priced new close to brands in the true Luxury category, the heavier discounting when new, trendy styles that become dated and poorer long term durability depreciate their value rapidly.Most of these brands cannot claim any meaningful vintage heritage, even though some are operating under names of bought out companies that were well reputed in earlier decades.
Summary:
This is the transition tier--these watches are the high-end brands of the mass market stores, but the low-end brands at the finer jewelry stores. Overall, these can be the weaker value in luxury watches. They still have hefty prices, yet lack many of the better durability and long-term value benefits of the only slightly more expensive watches. Used watches from brands in the next tier up bought from reliable used watch dealers are usually a much better value.
Basic Luxury Watches
When you want something finer than average
Expect To Get:
An elegant and stylish watch that will serve you well for a number of years.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
Epos, Fortis, Movado, Orisunder $1,000 for Steel models
under $2,000 for Gold models
Moderate to heavy discounts available through various dealers.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
Mostly classic or trend following, though some brands in this class depend on style uniqueness as their real value.Mass-produced with adequate fit and finish. Steel. Plated or filled golds. Crystals are usually the scratchable but inexpensively replaced mineral glass or acrylic type.High-volume mass-production. Mostly analog quartz and non-chronometer grade mechanical. However some offer very unique complications at modest prices relative to most of the luxury watch market.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold in department stores and mall-type watch store chains, though some of these brands are unique enough that they only appear in watch specialty stores. Sometimes sold as the 'low-end' brands in fine jewelry stores.Limited market, main point of resale for this class of watches is pawn shops.Once these watches reach a 'vintage' age, their style, condition and values are seldom appealing enough to create any significant demand for them--except for those in virtually unused condition.
Summary:
This is the first tier of 'luxury' caliber watches. While there is a broad range, many brands at this level are excellent values as they are not trying to be more than they are. Some concentrate more on 'fashion' watches, others focus on affordable yet horologically sound products. The more modest prices make these a less risky purchase--you haven't invested so much that long-term value is of such concern.
 
#229 ·
ebel? i would substitute IWC for Ebel.

Let me reproduce a helpful table from chronocentric.

Chronocentric


High-End Luxury
There are always superb options when money is no object.
Expect To Get:
A particularly refined watch recognized only by people "in the know." Very exclusive in design and craftsmanship, produced in small numbers, available through only very specialized dealers. In short, these are the Rolls Royce class of timepieces.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
A Lange and Sohne, Alain Silberstein, Audemars Piguet, Blancpain, Breguet, Franck Muller, JLC, Parmigiani, Patek Phillipe, Ulysse Nardin, Vacheron Constantinstarting at $5,000 for Steel models
starting at $10,000 for Gold on a leather strap
starting at $20,000 for Gold on a Gold bracelet
with the sky as the limit. Some watches can exceed $2,000,000.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
Either highly distinctive or ultra-conservative.Very to extremely limited production. Partially to completely handcrafted.Hand finished mechanical movements either developed and produced by the same company ('in-house') or bought from specialty movement houses and highly customized. Additional mechanical complications--from obvious ones like moon phases and power reserve indicators to very subtle ones like correctly handling all the obscure conditions of the Gregorian calendar.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold mainly through very exclusive and high-end jewelry dealers. While some modest discounts are customary, larger discounts are rare. Some of these are available through gray market dealers. But on such exclusive and expensive products, it is not usually a good idea to buy through unauthorized sources.Because of high new watch prices and limited production, used models are in notable demand and still command quite decent prices.Always collectible, always valuable.
Summary:
If you have the kind of money necessary to play in this field, then you likely do understand what the true merits and values of world-class luxury items have to offer. These are the products that impress those in the know, not the average Joe on the street. Exclusivity and extremes of refinement and jewelry value are king here.
Luxury
The largest, most widely known class of luxury timepieces
Expect To Get:
An elegant, valuable, stylish and prestigious watch that will serve you well for a long time. Of quality and durability that the watch can be passed down to your children. If maintained in good condition, can be resold whether it is 6 months or 30 years old.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
Breitling, Cartier, Ebel, Omega, Rolex$1,000-$4,000 for Steel models
$2,500-$8,000 for Gold on a leather strap
$5,000-$20,000 for Gold on a Gold bracelet
Only modest discounts available through most brand-authorized dealers. Moderate discounts available from unauthorized "gray market" dealers.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
Trend-setting styles that range from traditional to highly original. Each brand usually has at least one or two very distinctive styles.Cases and bracelets mass-produced, but with the superlative fit and finish of fine jewelry. Surgical grade steel. Solid gold of 18 karat or sometimes 14 karat. Highly scratch-resistant sapphire crystals.High-end movements mass produced by the brand, or by a different company and then often customized by the brand. Dominantly very high-grade quartz and chronometer-grade mechanical. Digital quartz not seen at this level except for a few very specialized aerospace watches.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold officially mainly through dealers of higher-end jewelry. Though several forms of unauthorized resellers exist. Discounts through authorized dealers are restricted by the manufacturers to avoid cheapening the brand image.Superb market. Watches in this class are well sought after, but their high initial pricing encourages many buyers to seek used ones to better suit their budgets.Superb market. Watches in this class can last for many decades and are readily available through many reputable used watch dealers.
Summary:
This is the main tier of true luxury watches. Overall, these can be a good value because manufacturers at this level are not skimping to offer 'luxury' products at more moderate prices--yet they mostly do not go to outrageous excess in details without regard to cost of the highest-end brands. Better durability and modest depreciation rates make the long-term cost of ownership of these watches quite reasonable. Used watches in this tier can be an outstanding value.
Pseudo Luxury Watches
When you want a better luxury watch, but don't want to spend so much
Expect To Get:
An elegant and stylish watch that will serve you well for a moderate number of years.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
Baume & Mercier, Raymond Weil, Tag Heuer$500-$2,000 for Steel models
$750-$4,000 for Gold models
Moderate to heavy discounts available through various dealers.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
More trend following than trend leading.Mass-produced with adequate fit and finish. Steel. Filled or solid gold. Crystals may be mineral glass, acrylic or sometimes synthetic sapphire.High-volume mass-production. Mostly analog quartz and non-chronometer grade mechanical. These brands tend to focus mostly on luxury-style exteriors equipped with very common, unexceptional watch movements.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold as the 'better' brands in department stores and mall-type watch store chains. Sometimes sold as the 'low-end' brands in fine jewelry stores.Limited market. Despite some of these being priced new close to brands in the true Luxury category, the heavier discounting when new, trendy styles that become dated and poorer long term durability depreciate their value rapidly.Most of these brands cannot claim any meaningful vintage heritage, even though some are operating under names of bought out companies that were well reputed in earlier decades.
Summary:
This is the transition tier--these watches are the high-end brands of the mass market stores, but the low-end brands at the finer jewelry stores. Overall, these can be the weaker value in luxury watches. They still have hefty prices, yet lack many of the better durability and long-term value benefits of the only slightly more expensive watches. Used watches from brands in the next tier up bought from reliable used watch dealers are usually a much better value.
Basic Luxury Watches
When you want something finer than average
Expect To Get:
An elegant and stylish watch that will serve you well for a number of years.
Examples of Brands in this Range:Expect Retail Prices To Be:
Epos, Fortis, Movado, Orisunder $1,000 for Steel models
under $2,000 for Gold models
Moderate to heavy discounts available through various dealers.
Design/Style:On The Outside:On The Inside:
Mostly classic or trend following, though some brands in this class depend on style uniqueness as their real value.Mass-produced with adequate fit and finish. Steel. Plated or filled golds. Crystals are usually the scratchable but inexpensively replaced mineral glass or acrylic type.High-volume mass-production. Mostly analog quartz and non-chronometer grade mechanical. However some offer very unique complications at modest prices relative to most of the luxury watch market.
As NEW watches:As USED watches:As VINTAGE watches:
Sold in department stores and mall-type watch store chains, though some of these brands are unique enough that they only appear in watch specialty stores. Sometimes sold as the 'low-end' brands in fine jewelry stores.Limited market, main point of resale for this class of watches is pawn shops.Once these watches reach a 'vintage' age, their style, condition and values are seldom appealing enough to create any significant demand for them--except for those in virtually unused condition.
Summary:
This is the first tier of 'luxury' caliber watches. While there is a broad range, many brands at this level are excellent values as they are not trying to be more than they are. Some concentrate more on 'fashion' watches, others focus on affordable yet horologically sound products. The more modest prices make these a less risky purchase--you haven't invested so much that long-term value is of such concern.
 
#228 · (Edited)
I appreciate the responses. Bear with me as I'm not the best at multi-quoting:

~ mleok

I read through the article you linked to. I agree it was spot-on with regards to Rolex. However, it would still be difficult to convince even some watch lovers that Rolex isn't high-end. Even those who know that a simple Timex can keep time better and is going to be more durable.

Exclusivity doesn't always translate as "high-end." I collect high-end flashlights. Among my collection, the most exclusive model is a very non-high-end Dorcy black AAA model. Doesn't seem much when you look at it. But it's exclusive to such a degree that the average high-end flashlight collector has never handled or even seen one in person. Pics are rare, and some claim they are other, more common, versions of the same Dorcy light, simply photoshopped. Here's the thing . . . I own one. It's definitely real. As I said, so exclusive; some collectors actually debate if it even exists. Is it high-end? Is it Uber expensive? No, not one bit. But very exclusive. I understand what you're saying. But exclusivity doesn't always make a watch high-end.

Same thing with an in-house movement. Having one in a watch does not automatically translate into "high-end." When I bought my Orient black Mako, it came with a true in-house movement. Not a slightly tweaked ETA movement that under Swiss law could legally be labeled "in-house." And even though it was a very good watch, I'll be the first to say it wasn't remotely high-end. Still, it does feature a genuine in-house movement.

I have to be honest, those features you listed are not ones I'd consider high-end. And please let me explain why. Tourbillions are obsolete. Yes, at one point, it was an extremely useful complication. But that's not the case, today. Also, I've seen Invicta models that feature them. And I mean actual tourbillions. The watches themselves were ugly. But they did have that actual complication in them. With the invention of lume, minute repeaters also became mostly obsolete. But I can see how they would still be useful to those who suffer from very poor eye-sight. What sort of watch lover wouldn't enjoy turning the crown at least once a month. Plus, perpetual calenders tend to be a real pain to fix if issues develop down the road. As for COSC certification, the high-end Japanese models always do better than COSC.

Those are complications and features that are little more than novelties at best. Even the minute repeaters. I've seen specialty watches that directly speak the time for individuals who are nearly blind or very hard of hearing. And those watches don't cost a lot either.

To each his own. But I can't see a watch filled with novelty complications as a big factor in it being truly high-end. A great deal of high quality and a certain degree of attention to detail are the two biggest criteria I look at.

Thanks for posting the vids. The ones I saw were from an educational TV show that I happened to catch.

It's odd that chronocentric uses the term "Pseudo Luxury" as the category for a handful of brands. Yet, even their own summary doesn't bear out the "Fake Luxury" stamp they gave those brands.

I've mentioned this on two different threads already. Guess this is going to be #3. Sellita = sub-contractor that made ETA movements for ETA. Those movements were then put into watches. The SW200 is more of an identical twin with an extra jewel than simply a clone. Yes, there were early teething issues. But those were fixed. The difference between an ETA 2824 and the Sellita SW200? One jewel, and a different name. Otherwise, it's the same movement with the same quality. But everyone has heard of ETA. Sellita just lacks the name-recognition. If I put on a baseball cap and changed my name to Steve, I'd still be the same person.

~ iim7v7im7

Thanks for going into detail. Your post was very helpful. I appreciate it.

~ Dancing Fire

If the movement is in-house, it should be able to do something more significant than what an ETA movement can do. Should allow the watch to incorporate more features. But not novelty features. If an in-house movement can't outperform a comparable ETA movement, or it's functionally no better than the inexpensive in-house movement in an Orient Mako, then what's the point? Orient makes their own in-house movement. I don't think anyone will claim the brand is high-end.

Also . . . Never accused you of not owning a Rolex.
 
#230 · (Edited)
monocrom...let me tell you a funny story.

last week when i was having lunch with a friend of mine he was showing off his new $2500 TAG watch,he said ...the next time when you are in the market for a new watch please give me a call and i'll show you what to look for in a high end watch. he look at my watch for 5 seconds and then go...:roll: btw; i was sporting a RG Lange 1 MP.
 

Attachments

#238 ·
This is a great thread. I'm in agreement with the Chronocentric Table 100%, except it needs one more category: Watches that meet all the criteria of expensive, excellent design and finish, public reknown, but fail in the movement or complication area - Cartier is a perfect example. Perhaps a category called "More fashionable Luxury"
 
#246 ·
Yes, I believe that both Cartier and Omega are capable of manufacturing extremely high grade pieces. Cartier with JLC, GP movements? Not as good as JLC, GP? Cartier's fine/complicated watchmaking line, which is far more than a few pieces, is wayyyyyy high-end (whatever than means) in my mind.

The new Omega in-house movement is gorgeous and the lady-matic is stunning in person.

By the way, Cartier is a bit too fashion-y for my taste, but they do make beautiful pieces and the new "Calibre" line looks fantastic.
 
#254 · (Edited)
Marketing doesn't make a high end, but it advertises for one. Marketing and advertising is what can make or break any brand watch company. Also, If you look closely you will notice that depending on the brand and how they plan on marketing a specific model they can go from high end to luxury to fashion and so on. It's hard to really say one brand belongs in the high end to another. Many would agree and say that Hublot is a high end watch company, but at one point in the late 1990s to early 2000s they almost fell apart and shut down. Luckily for them, they made some changes and then came out with the Big Bang watches, but most importantly they marketed those watches as high end and advertised like never before. Look at them now, they are considered one of the top watch manufacturers in the world. Tag Heuer does make some high end watches as well as some luxury ones. Tag Heuer has been a pioneer in the watch making industry for a very long time with their chronographs, modifications of movements and concepts. In some cases they lead and are ahead of the competition. One of the things I feel can make a watch be considered high end or even luxury besides its price is its rarity. If a watch is made in small quantities by a reputable company and made well that not to many people will be able to obtain, I feel that can be considered a high end watch too. Rare watches tend to hold their value better. As for the movements in the watches, many tend to get caught up if it's an in house movement or not. Even if it's an in house movement, how do we really know that it's any better than a modified 7750. We don't. We assume that most in house movements are special and made better than anything out there, but we really won't know until we see how well they work and for how long. We all have our own opinions, but to me the most high end watch and the best watch is the one that we each enjoy to wear and that is made well and stays functional for a very long time. Everyone should enjoy and be proud of their time pieces.
 
#257 ·
Marketing doesn't make a high end, but it advertises for one. Marketing and advertising is what can make or break any brand watch company. Also, If you look closely you will notice that depending on the brand and how they plan on marketing a specific model they can go from high end to luxury to fashion and so on. It's hard to really say one brand belongs in the high end to another. Many would agree and say that Hublot is a high end watch company, but at one point in the late 1990s to early 2000s they almost fell apart and shut down. Luckily for them, they made some changes and then came out with the Big Bang watches, but most importantly they marketed those watches as high end and advertised like never before. Look at them now, they are considered one of the top watch manufacturers in the world. Tag Heuer does make some high end watches as well as some luxury ones. Tag Heuer has been a pioneer in the watch making industry for a very long time with their chronographs, modifications of movements and concepts. In some cases they lead and are ahead of the competition. One of the things I feel can make a watch be considered high end or even luxury besides its price is its rarity. If a watch is made in small quantities by a reputable company and made well that not to many people will be able to obtain, I feel that can be considered a high end watch too. Rare watches tend to hold their value better. As for the movements in the watches, many tend to get caught up if it's an in house movement or not. Even if it's an in house movement, how do we really know that it's any better than a modified 7750. We don't. We assume that most in house movements are special and made better than anything out there, but we really won't know until we see how well they work and for how long. We all have our own opinions, but to me the most high end watch and the best watch is the one that we each enjoy to wear and that is made well and stays functional for a very long time. Everyone should enjoy and be proud of their time pieces.
So the High End Forum should get flooded with Invicta owners because they are proud of their time piece?
Hamilton owners should be here because they purchased a 7750?
SS Camaro's with the venerable LS3, about as durable and long lasting a V8 one can get, is a high end car?

I disagree with your math.

Additionally, what is limited? 9999? 1830? Numbers I have seen. I have a 2009 Pontiac with less units made...is that High-End?

I do agree with you that there are watch companies that can span the spectrum...but where their efforts lie within that spectrum may matter.

Finally, I continue to note that this is a High End Watch forum...not a High End Watch Brand forum.
 
#255 ·
Hublot is a high end watch? I always thought of it as a pretentious, overrated, and overpriced fashion watch.
 
#259 · (Edited)
Roller.959,

First of all, Invicta was never mentioned. As a matter of fact I don't consider Invicta a high end nor a luxury watch brand. I see them more as a fashion watch company even though they do have a line that is made fairly well. Hamilton is another brand that wasn't mentioned.

I don't think you quite understand what I am trying to say. Everyone has their own opinion as to what is high end to them and how companies market their products can also impact ones views.

Now I'm curious, what is wrong with a 7750 or better yet a 7750 that has been modified by a big reputable company? The 7750 at one point was one of the best movements made and that is why they still use it today but many companies modify it to their specifications.

As for comparing cars to watches, I might as well compare apples to oranges or anything else for that matter. Once again, it's up to each individual's perspective of what is high end to them.

No one is doing math here just simple explanations so there is nothing to get wrong or disagree in.

Rare and limited edition watches tend to be some of the company's better watches and also tend to hold their value better, which inturn can many times be considered high end. As I mentioned before, this is to individual opinions.

If am right this forum is labeled (Which Watch Brands Belong in the High-End Forum? Which Ones Do Not?). I don't know about anyone else, but when I read it, I understand it as watch brands not specific watch models. If that's the case then a new forum needs to be created stating "Which watch models are considered high end, which ones are not?"
 
#281 · (Edited)
Re: The circle game...

Thank you for a very entertaining thread everyone.

Just to prove I've been bored the last 2 days, I've read every post :p

I feel like there are a lot of fan boys getting worked up over nothing because they feel like they aren't being accepted in this "exclusive club"

The entire point of this forum was a refuge for owners of lesser known brands to come and be able to have conversation without being bothered by others who might normally post in the general forums.

Someone with a GO isn't going to go into the Zenith forum and start posting about their watch for not reason, and that's sort of the point of this forum. The people in here don't want to hear about the newest Diesel watches. If they did, they would go into the fashion forum or general and etc.

Straight up, this thread shouldn't exist as it was laid out right from the start what the purpose of this forum was for.

And one more point, the only reason I believe the moderators having intervened in this, or locked this thread is likely because they have been entertained by the pointlessness of it.

I really hate to say it, and sorry if it comes off as an insult, but, if i wanted to see pointless circling debates that have no resolution. I would go to a Honda Civic forum and read what 16 year olds have to say. The only difference here is people's usage of better vocabulary and a slightly better ability to stay on topic (and I even question that)

Is there any way to end the petty arguing and just focus on the topic? or is all people do around her is nit pic, and add a new unseen rule to arguments just to make it suit their needs?
 
#282 ·
Re: The circle game...

|> You deserve some sort of 'hero medal' for wading through all of this.
Thank you for a very entertaining thread everyone.

Just to prove I've been bored the last 2 days, I've read every post :p

I feel like there are a lot of fan boys getting worked up over nothing because they feel like they aren't being accepted in this "exclusive club"

The entire point of this forum was a refuge for owners of lesser known brands to come and be able to have conversation without being bothered by others who might normally post in the general forums.

Someone with a GO isn't going to go into the Zenith forum and start posting about their watch for not reason, and that's sort of the point of this forum. The people in here don't want to hear about the newest Diesel watches. If they did, they would go into the fashion forum or general and etc.

Straight up, this thread shouldn't exist as it was laid out right from the start what the purpose of this forum was for.

And one more point, the only reason I believe the moderators having intervened in this, or locked this thread is likely because they have been entertained by the pointlessness of it.

I really hate to say it, and sorry if it comes off as an insult, but, if i wanted to see pointless circling debates that have no resolution. I would go to a Honda Civic forum and read what 16 year olds have to say. The only difference here is people's usage of better vocabulary and a slightly better ability to stay on topic (and I even question that)

Is there any way to end the petty arguing and just focus on the topic? or is all people do around her is nit pic, and add a new unseen rule to arguments just to make it suit their needs?
 
#287 ·
Re: The circle game...

Hi everyone. This is my first post here and enjoyed reading this thread.

My suggestion is instead of calling certain watches "high end" which denotes high price to most people, maybe you could name it "high horology" which maybe is more indicative of watches that are more concerned with complications, beautifully finished in house movements and incredible cases and dials.

Then the "luxury brands" can cover the rest of the field.
 
#288 ·
Re: The circle game...

Hi everyone. This is my first post here and enjoyed reading this thread.

My suggestion is instead of calling certain watches "high end" which denotes high price to most people, maybe you could name it "high horology" which maybe is more indicative of watches that are more concerned with complications, beautifully finished in house movements and incredible cases and dials.

Then the "luxury brands" can cover the rest of the field.
To many of us, high-end definitely does not denote high-price. Plenty of ridiculously over-priced timepieces out there. Ironically, there are some excellent values as well out there that exhibit a truly high level of quality.

One thing I've learned since becoming interested in this hobby is that, with watches, you honestly don't get what you pay for much of the time. Sometimes you get more, often you get less. In a few cases, a whole helluva lot less.
 
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