Breitling 765 AVI / CP history from 1953 to 1962 and chronology from 1953 to 1978

Thread: Breitling 765 AVI / CP history from 1953 to 1962 and chronology from 1953 to 1978

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    Breitling 765 AVI / CP history from 1953 to 1962 and chronology from 1953 to 1978

    My little contribution on the Breitling 765 AVI / CP from 1953 to 1962, we have learned a lot since Altro first published his knowledge in (seems ages ago) WUS here Breitling Aviastar and the AVI/Co-Pilot family - a brief history.

    first published Nov 1st 2013 on breitlingsource.com, many changes since the initial draft



    When I did my little investigation on the early Navitimers and the bead count on the bezel
    The Breitling Watch Source Forums • View topic - How to date the early Breitling Navitimers by bezel beads
    I also kept a list of all ‘all black’ 765’s I encountered . As living life got in the way I never did much with that data until recently.

    Now I am slowly compiling the data I gathered and here are some of my preliminary findings .
    Please keep in mind that this is probably incomplete as I am working with a very limited dataset of approx 28 - 30 pieces. There are more ‘all black’ 765’s out there on the web but I was unable to get meaningful data from them like serial numbers etc but the total number of ‘all black’ 765’s I could find is limited

    On the approx 30 watches I gathered data on there are some strange things.

    1. 70 % seems to come from 1953 , with the next watches from 1959 , 1960, 1961 and then 1962.

    2. Evidence seems to point to a 2nd run of ‘Digital’ AVI’s in 1960. Whether this was a new order or a ‘use up’ of old parts we will most likely never know (Ubik/Yaffle , thanks for pointing this out to me) but since these 1960 Digital models have the larger beads on the bezel, a newer type of hands and Geneve on the dial I assume this was a 2nd run or special order for these models.

    3. There seem to be an equal division between 'Digital Date window' watches and 'Analog subdial' watches. Of the 27 watches (1953 to 1962) 13 pcs are 'analog' and 14 pcs are 'Digital' . Based on the small number of watches I have seen this might be an error due to the very small amount of watches but it is something to watch for as I grow this list

    4. All ‘All Black 765 AVI” have a steel bezel which is held in place by 3 screws. The screw holes are not in a specific place in the bezel but can be in several places. The screw holes I observed were in the following places : 1-5-9 , 2-6-10 , 3-7-11 , 4-8-12 . The screw placing seems to have no bearing to either serial number or build . This Bezel is used from 1953 to 1962. The 'Click' bezel without screws was first used on the black/white 765 AVI's and Co-Pilots and the earliest 'new' model I have seen is from 1962 (private watch in my possession) which is a black/white 765 AVI with a deeply stamped caseback

    5. Watches can have a gilded V178 or a non-gilded V178 movement. They can also have the BOW and WOG import codes or no code at all. Again there seems to be no logic to the madness here and either movement can be found throughout the 1953 serial range

    All 1953 ‘All Black 765 AVI” watches have a deeply stamped 765 in the middle of the caseback with the AVI model name below the 765 ref number , however some watches have the AVI stamped in the middle and the 765 below that, this is the case with 2 of the 1961 watches 938333 & 938464 which may point to a small batch of cases that was marked such, manufactured in 1961.





    <the below paragraph about army engravings is unconfirmed !!!! >

    Some of the watches I have seen also have an extra number engraved on the back below the 'AVI' stamp. One Owner was told by the original watch owner that this is a serial number from the Italian airforce. If this is correct , and I have no reason to doubt it, there are All black AVI's out there that were purchased by the italian airforce and I assume these were handed to their pilots and/or navigators as tools of the trade and returned after service . The 'Italian airforce' pieces are again a combination of 'digital' and 'analog' watches where the extra number does not seem to follow any serial number range (see list below) where 827818 has number 421 engraved and is a "digital' version whereas 827833 has number 414 and is a 'analog' version.


    Some sources also site the French Airforce as origin for the extra 3 digits. 1 Italian forum

    Breitling AVI 765 - Orologi & Passioni and
    1 french Chronomania - Breitling Avi 765

    "the number of French Air Force assignment engraved on the back (52x)
    Probably this serial was attributed to a military laboratory as cataloging,
    with subsequent delivery to the various department, For many years this type
    of watch and follow and 'the 2nd I see with the assignment (at this time and
    the other' in the network and the owners have pointed out that 'the first time
    I noticed the attribution of this model)"


    How and where these fit into the Military categories for either French or Italian Airforces is currently still unknown and uncertain and needs to be investigated, also proof needs to be provided before this can be accepted as fact


    Rumour 2:

    in 1952/1953, the unproven rumors go, Breitling was in intense negotiations w/ the French Airforce and the AVI was developed based on the ref. 765, adapting the 30 minute counter to 15 minutes and adding the 12h bezel - prototypes or a small series were delivered and then the political connections of Breguet/Vixa changed the tender specs to add the flyback functions and Breitling lost the contract. Unsubstantiated, unproven and probably unprovable today, as most corporate documents were not passed on to the new trademark owner, Mr. Schneider. Probably still lying somewhere in a safe



    </unconfirmed>


    What we do know however , and what we are absolutely certain of, is that the Breitling 765 AVI predates the Breguet type XX by at least 1 year. With the earliest Breitling I have seen (serial 820441) released 1/2 1953 and the Breguet type XX being released in 1954 . This by itself should be enough proof that the Breitling 765 AVI was designed, made and released prior to the Breguet type XX.

    http://www.qahill.com/tz/type20/type20.html

    From 1954, Breguet was commissioned by the French government to supply the Type 20 to the Air Force, the Naval Air Arm, and the CEV. The Breguet Type 20s used stainless steel cases and screwed case backs.


    The Vixa Type 20 was built in 1954 with case and movement by Hanhart. The company "Vixa" was named after a late president of Timex Watches France. (Timex had a factory in Besançon until 1960.) Some 4000-5000 Vixa Type 20 chronographs were supplied.


    Auricoste provided around 2000 Type 20 chronographs under contract and delivered them to the French military between August 1954 and March 1955. The Auricoste Type 20 used Lemania movements that were marked "Auricoste."


    Surprisingly the 'Digital' All black 765 with date aperture minute counter is listed on this website as

    http://www.qahill.com/tz/type20/type20.html

    The watch on the left is not a Type 20, but is an interesting flyback chronograph made by Auricoste in the 1950s for the French army. It is difficult to see in this picture, but there is a small window at 3 o'clock for a digital minutes counter. It has a bezel marked in hours, a 12-hour totalizer at 6 o'clock, and a steel case with a screwed back.





    The chronology of models as I understand it is as follows (this of course is a one persons POV and I welcome comments)

    As with the early all black Navitimers the first indicator of the age of the watch is the bead count and size of the beads. More beads is older , counting beads however is more difficult as the 3 screws in the bezel delete some of the beads. But in general the 53 models have 11 beads between the V and the 1 on the bezel , 1959 to 1962 have 96 beads with 8 separate beads between the V and 1 on the bezel , See pictures below for clarification.





    Due to the number of beads on the bezel, the bezel itself is of course also a different shape







    Initial model (see below), with the ‘date window’ as a minute counter, no “Geneve” on the dial (Breitling moved to Geneve in 1953) an a-typical Chrono hand which is (for lack of a better word) ‘tapered’ and quite narrow hour and minute hands with long narrow tips .




    Then Breitling released the next model (see below), it now has “Geneve” on the dial so I assume it was released after Breitling moved to Geneve in 1953 . Therefor I assume this model was released in 1953/54/55. The other change you will notice is the change in the Chronometer hand, which is now shaped as an arrow. This model still has the quite narrow hour and minute hands with long narrow tips





    For the next model (see below) Breitling seems to have moved away from the date window minute counter and we see a ‘normal’ circular subdial with a hand. The watch overall bears strong resemblence to the Breguet type 20 released in 1956. In chronological perspective this watch may have been very well released around 1956 as well. The hands are still the same as the previous version with the exception (of course) of the minute counter which is quite fat and with lume inside



    <THIS ABOVE MODEL MARKS THE END OF 1953 SERIAL NUMBER MODELS AS FAR AS I COULD SEE>


    Now the Anomaly ,

    Evidence points to the fact that in 1960 a series was released that had again the date window minute counter.

    The watch has thicker hour and minute hands than previously released versions with the date window and have serial numbers from 1960, and less but bigger 'rice beads' on the bezel. I have seen 4 watches that look like this .



    The next model (see below) and what I believe is the final version of the ‘all black AVI’s” with a late 1962 serial number. Thicker hands, and the same bead bezel as described above



    During the 1960ies Breitling has also allowed the 765 AVI to be 'co-branded' by Kronometer Stockholm, I have only seen 2 watches , see below for 1




    The 1953 serial number range that I investigated runs from 8269xx/826987 to 827833 , this seems to indicate roughly 1000 cases which were used from 1953 to 1958 (6 years) to build watches. I have contacted Breitling Suisse and asked them how many 765 AVI's were build in 1953 but sadly they have told me they do not have this information (weird, because they could tell me exactly how many V72 Navitimers they build in 54/55 which is 1200 pcs)


    Copyright notice :

    This work in progress article was written by Rene Kesting / Dracha. If you would like to use this information on your website or somehow publish it please give credit to the writer , and link back to this article and this website as this info was first published on Breitlingsource . I couldnt have done this without all the info on Breitlingsource with a special thanks to Yaffle/Ubik and WatchFred for their feedback and finding me watches to add to the list.
    If you would like to contact me or if you have an all black Breitling AVI 765 you would like to sell please contact me : Rene@Kesting.nl


    Since there doesn't seem to be a comprehensive list with Breitling 765 models that were released over the years I decided to make one.


    This is the list as I consider 'correct' , and as always things will change as I see or notice more differences or dates that need to change. The early history of these pieces I investigated here The Breitling Watch Source Forums &bull; View topic - All black AVI 765 investigation

    1953

    1953 , the birth of the 'Original' 765 AVI



    1955

    Around 1955 we see 2 models.
    1 with a 'digital' date aperture minute counter



    and 1 with a normal subdial layout



    I believe that the approx number of AVI watches made, Analog and Digital combined, between 1953 & 1958 is 1000 pcs. This number is based on the serial numbers I collected


    1960

    still 2 models like above with the only change being the larger beads on the bezel and 'fatter' hands on both models



    and the 'normal' dial layout with subdial but also 'fatter' hands and larger beads on the bezel




    1962 / 63 / 64

    Somewhere between 1962 and 1964 Breitling changed from an all black dial to a 'reverse' panda dial. I have seen indisputable examples with a '62 case number both in all black . and the earliest 'reverse panda' I know of also has a '62 case number . note that the 1962 / 63 / 64 765 AVI has a steel bezel



    1965

    1965 marked a significant change in this family of watches . The Bezel is changed from steel to anodized aluminium And the model designation changed from 'AVI' to 'CP'. The CP stands for Co-Pilot (The Raquel Welsh watch is actually a AVI , not a Co-pilot)



    there was also a model with a slight variation in the bezel



    1966

    In addition to the 'normal' CP with black anodized bezel a 'Yachting' model with a 15 minute countdown subdial and bezel was added to the lineup , both models were sold concurrently



    1967

    The yachting (765 CP) model received a newly designed handset



    1969

    Between 1967 and 1969 Breitling stoppedr using a separate name for these on the case and they only had a reference number . So we say goodbye to the Co-Pilot name as well. An extended family we have now . the 7650 , larger than the previous 765



    a newly designed yachting model 7650



    and we even see a 24 hour model the 1765 Unitime



    approx number of 1765 watches made, is 1000 pcs. This number is based on the serial numbers I collected , runs from 1276000 to 1276999. However a batch of these cases was used to make 'TopTime' versions . 12 hour watches with the V7736 and V178 movement . These watches were given the reference 1765/36 when equipped with the 7736 movement or left with 1765 if they have the V178 movement . 1765 Toptimes typically have a serial number in the 1276300 - 1276399 range but have been seen with serial numbers in the 12768xx range as well

    When these TopTimes were made is currenty not known but I assume the 1765 Unitime was not a 'bestseller' and they used part of the cases to build the 1765/36 before (or concurrent) with the release of the 7656 as the dial and hands are Identical to the 7656


    Also somewhere in 1969 a separate ref number was given to the yachting model
    the ref 7660




    <insert big cased watches here >

    1975

    For a few years it was very quiet on the 765X and X765 front. Until in 1975 Breitling released the 7656 'Top Time'



    If you would like to contact me or if you have an all black Breitling AVI 765 you would like to sell please contact me : Rene@Kesting.nl
    Last edited by Dracha; March 14th, 2014 at 17:11.
    Don't believe me or anything I say just because I say it ... do your own research , ask questions and get answers , find out what you can , do background searches on the (vintage) watch you're interested in AND on the seller , only if you do all of that you will be able to determine the authenticity of the watch you're interested in


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